The pelvis

You are a rosebud. I can just picture your pink cheeks and corn-fed goodness. Please know how well I understand how hard it is to wake up to the fact that we live in a world that is not very good for us. Comfortable, convenient, fun, distracting, exciting....yes. Good for us, no.

I'm thrilled that you watched the food movie and that both you and your husband are open to changing things for the better. That we are what we eat could not be more true.

Your aunt, bless her hard-working soul, is living a life that is hell on prolapse. Time will tell whether surgery can change her to better fit into that life. Incontinence is actually very easy to fix, but other manifestations of having the pelvic interior pulled in one direction or another are far-reaching.

Prolapse very well may be common in cattle. However, I seriously doubt it was common in their wild ancestors and I imagine it is increasingly common as we breed cattle to our specifications. Four-leggeds really don't have as specialized pelvic organ support system as we do. Their organs/channels are not "biaxial", which means they are straight and not bent 90 degrees from vagina-to-uterus, etc. They also do not possess the powerful sphincter systems we do, nor the incredible way the pelvis "locks" and its ligaments "wind up" when we sit and stand.

I know there are many women out there (I receive email from them all the time) to whom it would never occur that the "hot dishes" present at every dinner table are not only changing their waistline, but also changing their consciousness. We are one mind-body and what we eat most certainly does affect our mental and emotional status.

Hopefully you are finding resourceful ways to locate natural food. It is simply amazing, but true, that food "deserts" not only exist in the inner-city, but also in the middle of American farm country. I am extremely grateful for our food co-op and now our farmer's market, which has just re-opened for the season. Quite honestly, I walk into a supermarket and there is not one item in the store that I would put into my body. You may have to be very resourceful, like driving to organic farms or sending away for whole food - both of which I also have done.

Many blessings, Rosebud. You are right, we are a bunch of wild women trying to find our way to health. It is a different journey for each woman and only you know what is best for you and your family. If any of what we have to say is useful to you, fabulous. Please don't ever hesitate to question all assumptions!

:) Christine

Um, aren't cows forced to stand all day?? If they were allowed to roam, as I used to see them when I was a kid, they'd be seated at times in the shade, wagging their tails at flies, relaxing, chewing cud under a shady tree. The cows I see these days are all standing.

That’s a good point, csf. However, I think barring traumatic birth or surgery, prolapse almost always has to do with alterations in intraabdominal pressure. I bet these cow’s guts have been changed so that internal pressures are increased “out the back”.

Did I just make myself out to be a cow expert? hee hee I know nothing about cows.

What do you mean their guts have been changed?

I think we all can agree that American cows are fed pretty horrendous diets these days, which probably has a negative effect on their complex digestive systems.

My point is that prolapse in any animal is unlikely without increases in intraabdominal pressure to push out the uterus or bowel. A cow’s uterus is nestled down against her abdominal wall, without much to disturb it except birth. Standing on four legs wouldn’t impact that anatomy at all. Eating scrap from America’s candy and fast food industries most certainly would.

We’re all experts here, csf. :)

I think the only way you can really understand about cows and sheep is to live amongst them and talk with people who raise them. Mindful farmers only husband their animals in ways that increase the overall wellbeing of their animals so that they can produce more beef per carcase, or more beef per acre, or more beef per dollar input. Animals that are 'unhappy' or 'unhealthy' will always produce less than animals that are 'happy' or 'healthy' because they are using energy for survival and recovery which should be used for growth and production. The aim of animal husbandry is to keep animals comfortable, stress free and healthy, because that's the way the market wants them, and that is the way they will produce the most. It is not good management to put feed and care into animals that will never meet market specifications because they live their lives permanently stressed.

I can hear you thinking about the evils of grain feeding and factory feedlots. Yes, I agree with you. It is very distressing to see footage like that shown in Food Inc. I haven't yet figured that one out yet. We do have to be careful not to fantasise about animals having the same values as humans. Clearly they do not. Pigs and other animals do things that we find quite revolting, just because they can. It is not their fault that the water or they stand or roll in, or the food they eat, is laced with poisons and pathogens.

There is a large percentage of the world's human population who are living and making a living in conditions that are not worthy of any creature of Creation, either.

Re POP and animals, all I know is that one of the reasons uterine prolapse and eversion occur is that they are symptoms of, and commonly occur as part of hypocalcaemia, a condition where the calcium metabolism becomes disturbed during late pregnancy for various reasons. For some reason the uterus comes out of the mother during the birth process, and sometimes turns completely inside out, as if the cervix doesn't dilate properly, then suddenly lets go completely. Then the uterus contracts more than it should, while the placenta stays attached when it should detach. This pulls the uterus inside out and the cervix then re-contracts, trapping the uterus outside the mother's body. I have seen a Youtube video of a uterus being stuffed back inside the cow, and the vulva being sutured temporarily closed until it can settle back in place over the following weeks. The sutures are then removed and the cow will easily fall pregnant and calve naturally again. Prolapse and eversion may never happen again to that cow. It was very challenging to watch, as it took an enormous effort by several people, and a lot of time, but the animal was obviously of great value to them, and stood during the whole ordeal.

We have also seen prolapse happen in a ewe that had been disturbed by foxes during lambing. One of the lambs malpresented, and that may have caused a rupture of the uterus as well. We euthenaised her as she was unable to birth her lambs.

When you live close to livestock you see up close what a wasteful process reproduction in nature really is. It makes me realise why there is such high infant and maternal mortality in developing countries. It is sadly just a characteristic of natural reproduction, though it is made much worse than it needs to be in societies where women do not have the right to basic health care and self-determination, particularly in the area of marriage and having babies.

Most people no longer have relatives with farms. I would urge every member who does not have ready access to a farm to avail yourselves of any farm stay holidays or farm open days you can, and ask lots of non-judgemental questions about food production before you jump to conclusions about farmers being cruel to animals and only out for the holy dollar.

CSF, I don't know what cows you have seen. Cows that graze spend a great deal of time standing and walking around, grazing as they go. They also need physiologically to lie down for much of the day, ruminating, and resting, while their rumen digests their food. One of the problems with large dairy herds is that they have to walk excessive distances to the milking shed and back to the paddock. This takes them a long time, twice or three times a day, which uses a lot of energy, and is time they don't get to spend either eating or lying down. They also get very hot, because heat is a by product of high milk production, rumination, and of course, walking. It is hard, hot work being a dairy cow.

It is easy to see how dairy companies would see profit in keeping their cows permanently shedded, and eating concentrated grain-based diets, and using all their energy for producing milk, which is only a commodity, rather than a product (but that is another story).

Louise

Hi ladies

I'm certainly no farming expert, but have lived near herds of Limousin beef cattle that live very natural lives in family groups, with gentle bulls included in that social structure, and it certainly seems to be a less stressful existence than being a dairy cow or a chained bull used to service a dairy cow. My gut feeling is that the closer a farm animal comes to living a natural life the healthier it ( and its produce) will be, and it makes sense morally too. Makes me feel a hypocite for being too squeamish to buy meat but okay with yoghurt.

Just picking up on Rosebud's fears about soy ( or soya as we call it in Europe). I am raising my children on soya milk because big quantities of dairy gave them awful eczema and constipation ( it does the same to me). As a semi vegetarian, I do eat tofu and drink soya milk and I also give it to my family because I am by no means convinced that a lot of dairy is in any way a natural food for humans ( and anyway it makes my family ill).

So, I'm having that familiar mother worry - am I doing/ have I done the right thing? I appreciate that soya additives in processed food are probably not good, (and nor are lots of other things in highly processed food), but surely soya milk and tofu are not highly processed. It does feel to me a bit like the massively powerful dairy lobby biting back to raise the recent scares about soya. ( They seem to centre partly around fear of phyto-oestrogens - here we go back to that argument between mainstream and alternative health - and to urge that they can make boys feminine or give women breast cancer.) The counter argument is that they can be powerfully protective against cancer- one reason for the very low incidence in Japanese women with traditional diets high in soya. Excessive red meat consumption is definitely carciogenic - even the British health authorities are now warning against more than two helpings a week - and we've got to live in the real world and give our families palatable protein and calcium.

Are there any other whole women who have struggled with this debate and come up with a solution about soya for themselves and their families?

Doubtful

This debate is fairly new to me, Doubtful, and so far I like your take on it...being the food industry using the politics of fear to keep us BUYING the bad food they produce.This is possibly the most intelligent forum,in my experience, on almost any subject discussed. Awareness is everything. Gratefully yours, YD

hemp milk and almond milk are both tolerable
coconut milk is good as is coconut yogurt
but why do you need them anyway? Consider that the political organizations that claim you must drink milk have good reason to encourage you to do so.

we were vegan for some time and I tried to make as much as I could and I refused to buy tvp.
But to be totally honest, you can replace milk in any recipe with water. Butter with oils or even apples. Egg with flax seed.
We really don't need milks. Sure they can be yummy- but loaded with sugar :)

no need to eat tofu- you can eat other things for protein- you just need to eat more of them. I have a theory that our hunger is very normal- it's how we respond to it that is abnormal and leads to unhealthy weight gain.
Imagine how many beans you would have to eat to gain a kilogram or 2.2 pounds :) Also think for a minute about just how much leafy green you would need to be able to get enough calcium to sustain the body.
so we get hungry so we will eat enough nutrients- kale, beans, almonds, squash- to get enough to fill you up you must eat a decent amount and you must be hungry enough to want to do that.
Has anyone ever heard of a person gaining weight eating apples and broccoli? No way right? That's because our biological hard wiring has us putting down our forks when the body is satisfied. Icecream on the other hand has you eating upwards of 1,000 extra calories after you are satisfied just because it's so yummy.
If anyone wants to attempt to lose weight I recommend only eating foods that come to your plate as they grow on this earth. All the way to shelling your own nuts. You will be down to your healthy weight in no time at all and with out ever feeling hungry. You will simply experience the intended satisfaction of *done* when you eat enough sweet potato or avocado :)
It is hard at first- and our culture has filled us with messed up ideals- we think we deserve a treat, we refuse to *live* without our coffee or cheese, but if you can let all that go and just try to feed your body as it was intended to be fed from the very beginning you will feel amazing. All these 'illnesses' we have, aches and pains and even emotional disorders- I believe come from not feeding the body properly.

What a journey this life is. My story is similar to yours. It was not until our first child was in the hospital, deathly ill (literally) that I had a major 'AHA' moment.

I spent a good deal of time after that aha- feeling terribly guilty for all the misinformed choices I had made. Then one day I heard one mom say to another mom at a meeting 'when you know better, you do better' and that was the key for me for letting go of my guilt. I simply didn't know better.
I *knew* things didn't seem right somehow, but I didn't know what *right* was for me or my family. I was on the path though- I was searching, slowly opening up to what the supposed 'freaks' in our society were saying.

Then about 3 years later I discovered prolapse and finally realized what *right* was for me. And that *right* is that my health and the health of my family is my responsibility. No great doctor in his white coat (white knight anyone?) was going to swoop down and SAVE me. That the health of my food and my environment and my body is my responsibility (interesting how we dehumanize our government- calling it an institution- Government is THE PEOPLE- it's me!). I feel good about where I am now. I know I can do more, I know I can do better, and I know I'm not perfect. I also know that when the time is right and when I am ripe for changing it will happen.

Rosebud, sometimes I think we have to get cut down to be able to grow. Why would anyone ever question the status quo otherwise? My daughter's sickness was the biggest cutting I've ever received, though I doubt it will be the biggest of my life. But man have I grown!
Do you know that when I would not allow them to catheterize my baby to get a urine sample they accused me of having been sexually abused? Simply because I said NO to an unnecessary procedure. I must have something terribly wrong with me. She didn't need it, I didn't allow it. But I was not to be trusted to know what she needed. They tried every technique they could to break me down, to take away my power. To discredit my instincts. To turn my husband against me. It was heartbreaking. This stripping of power can happen very subtly over time. The trick is to first know you are powerful, that your instincts are there and you can trust them, and then the next thing to do is to hold on to that power as if your life depended on it, because it does!

The fact that you had no faith in Whole woman is wonderful! That disbelief will make your success that much more credible. You are a smart woman. You will make it through the book and all the technical aspects if you choose. You can do it.

Sounds like you are done with blindly trusting. Now you just have to find your own *true north*. It doesn't happen over night.
Have you read the Velveteen Rabbit? Being Real doesn't happen overnight.

Think about the Allegory of the Cave-"In the dialogue, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Socrates, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners."
Socrates then supposes that a prisoner is freed and permitted to stand up. If someone were to show him the things that had cast the shadows, he would not recognize them for what they were and could not name them; he would believe the shadows on the wall to be more real than what he sees.
"Suppose further," Socrates says, "that the man was compelled to look at the fire: wouldn't he be struck blind and try to turn his gaze back toward the shadows, as toward what he can see clearly and hold to be real? What if someone forcibly dragged such a man upward, out of the cave: wouldn't the man be angry at the one doing this to him? And if dragged all the way out into the sunlight, wouldn't he be distressed and unable to see "even one of the things now said to be true,"
After some time on the surface, however, the freed prisoner would acclimatize. He would see more and more things around him, until he could look upon the Sun. He would understand that the Sun is the "source of the seasons and the years, and is the steward of all things in the visible place, and is in a certain way the cause of all those things he and his companions had been seeing"

You are free! Go on with your bad self and find your own truth.
Love and peace be with you on your journey.

This is a great issue and one I think we’ve all wrestled with. Food is highly individualistic and every one of us is going to respond differently to various foods. There are certainly some interesting things to ponder tho.

One is that the human constitution seems to be wired to be primarily a fat eater. Each gram of fat when run through the human metabolic cycle provides more than twice as many calories as protein or carbs. The human brain took on immense growth - to its present size - when we became serious hunters. Lots of data suggest much of that meat was consumed raw and certain fat-rich organs most valued.

Then human tribes from Europe, Africa and the near east went into the milking business. I do not know how much of that milk was cultured, but from my experience making yogurt and butter from raw milk, I bet most of it was - just naturally from sitting in a clay pot for a few hours. This breaks down milk sugars and proteins, turning it into a truly healthful food that most humans can tolerate.

To my knowledge, the soybean has always supplemented the Asian diet, which was also rich in fish, ducks, pigs, etc. Although a decent source of calcium (depending upon how it’s processed) and protein, it’s not easy to live on. It’s also difficult for many Westerners to digest, not surprisingly. However, others do very well with it.

I am struggling atm with the issue of fats. I’m in the minority in believing that fresh-ground organic whole wheat is a miracle food and necessary for my health and longevity. However, without fresh butter, yogurt or soft cheese I’m hungry a couple hours after a meal of beans and squash and greens. I detest palm oil and dream of someday having a life that includes raw dairy, which may not happen in my lifetime if Fukushima blows (sorry to keep bringing this up, but the problem has not gone away). The issue of eating low on the food chain now overrides all else. Thank goodness for the lowly soybean.

Although I have my preferences, and a very real need for fat-soluble vitamins (it takes something like 21 units of carotene to equal 1 unit of retinol, the animal form of vitamin A that our eyes use) and fat, I do not believe I am limited to eating only what my genes are best geared up for. Humans walked around the planet and had to get used to every kind of food. Will, or consciousness, is the variable Darwin completely ignored, yet I believe is the key to how we evolve.

...but what will replace my sacred raw butter? :(

Christine

Over the years I have gone along with the wise health authorities's advice about increasing dietary fiber, going low salt, lowering saturated fats, eating more veg and fruit, lowering the consumption of meat protein etc and sorry to say inflicted such upon my family in an attempt as every mother does to make sure that my family and myself are receiving the benefits of the best knowledge possible. We have had inheritable diseases in the family e.g asthma, diverticulitis, Parkinson's disease that I would have liked for my children and grand children to avoid if at all possible. So you do your best.

Trouble is family members still got sick, my husband and I still got thick around the waist despite all well intentioned 'dietary improvements'. I began to think that all that wise advice was not incorrect as such, but just not truly generally applicable. In certain circumstances it was definitely good advice. So a child who is lactose intolerant could be encouraged to drink soy. Makes sense. Does that mean then that everyone should eat soy? Possibly not. Taking my eldest son off artificially yellow colored sweets was definitely a good move for he was allergic to them. Cutting salt from his vegetables however probably just made them less tasty. If you are sure the diet is making you or a family member sick then change it. If it is not then think twice. Why needlessly upset the balance?

With the older generation on both my husband's side of the family and my own all living (and remaining active) into their late 80s and early 90s, it started to make more sense to stick with the inherited family diet in the main and only make slight adjustments where obviously needed. Now that we have headed back that way including reintroducing more saturated fat in our diet and forgetting about all the low fat dairy and eating the full fat, we are happier and the weight has fallen back off except for a final 3 kilos which is hanging on for grim death, but we are determined to get the better of it.

So from my personal experience I would say don't for now give up your raw butter unless you think there is a very good reason too.

Dear Rosebud,
I haven’t seen the links you referred to in your last post, but an item in the paper yesterday made me think of you. It was concerning the banning of importation of Kombu (a dried seaweed) with iodine levels higher than 1000 milligrams per kilogram. It says, “Quarantine inspectors began checking brown seaweed (phaeophyceae) for iodine levels last October after at least one woman and her breastfeeding baby became sick. Since then many phaeohyceae consignments have been refused entry.”

It appears the woman had been eating three serves of this type of seaweed daily and her baby developed severe thyroid dysfunction.
“Iodine is an essential nutrient in the diet but for about 5% of the population with an underlying thyroid disease, excessive intake can be dangerous.

“Food Standards become alerted to the ‘issue of excessive iodine’ after an outbreak of illness from drinking Bonsoy soy milk in 2009. A class action against the company resulted.

A Dr Bronwyn Crawford (an endocrinologist) who co-authored a paper detailing the cases of eight soy milk sufferers wrote “There is a strong public health argument for monitoring iodine levels in imported foods....” She said the excessive iodine was traced to a type of seaweed used in its manufacture.

The numbers banned are not large (of 1686 consignments only 42 were rejected) but they come from a wide field; Japan, Hong Kong, the US, China and Korea.

Many people consider the banning as an example of nanny state gone mad, that for most people it would never prove an issue. That’s not the type of argument I would want to get into, but thought you might be interested in the info and the types of odds that a gamble here would represent. Whether this is what your friend was referring to or something else entirely, I don’t know.

Best wishes

good luck with the dairy free diet, rosebud!
when we eliminated dairy, someone who had btdt gave me some great advice. go shopping the day before you plan to eliminate dairy and buy lots of alternative food/snacks/drinks. its hard to think of alternatives when you are hungry (or your child is tantruming for milk!) but if you plan for it, its a bit easier.
also, my experience was that after about 3 days my child (then about 2 yo) stopped tantruming for dairy so I assume her cravings stopped. my friend told me to brace myself for a week of tantrums, being prepared helped me deal with it.
I hope this solves the mystery of what is causing the runs

Hey Rosebud- like you I found the book challenging at first- but also exciting. I knew that Christine was onto something. I was amazed and appalled at what I came to learn.
I have read and reread parts of the book several times. I have lent it to a few people under strict conditions of returning it. Each time I read it, something becomes a bit easier to understand or put into place.

I try as much as possible to do the WW posture and an quite convinced that posture is the key to prolapse - and to several other health issues as well.

I am not good with the ballet exercises but have come up with a range of exercises that do a similar thing.

I am positive that we what we eat is vital to our health but in my case eating really well did not stop me from getting a prolapse.

I have also come to learn so much as a consequence of the prolapse.

Best wishes, we do the best we can with the knowledge, skills and tools available to us at the time

Hi Rosebud

If what you are doing with your daughter's and your own diet is producing good outcomes I think that tells its own story. The doctor is doing tests that are testing for 'yes' or 'no' to very specific questions. Whatever the doctor finds out they are still only yes/no answers that have to be interpreted in the presence of any other information, including the improvement in your bodies.

BTW, as I understand it the body can react negatively to foods in ways other than allergy, eg straightforward sensitivity, which I guess could be the same sort of inflammation as mild allergy, but I don't know that for a fact.

Louise