posterior repair for rectocele - advice from consultant

Firstly - I would say that a pessary does NOT mean you will get loads of infections - My Mother has been using one for years and has not had even one infection.

Seems they always minimise the after effects and say how sucessful it will be. Obviously - They do not know your body and they do not want to know anything - I would say that the posture here will be your first defence against bothering with a gyn again. And - Believing what the say is not going to be something that you will automatically do.

When they say 'litle operation' they truly mean MAJOR SURGERY possibly changing your life permanently and not in a good way leading to many other surgeries. They have a 'product' to sell.... And that 'product' is surgery.

I believe you would take the first route - That is Posture.
Maybe you will feel the ned for a pessary. But. Most women here are avoiding any surgery, full stop.

Somewher on the forum Louise wrote a wondrous post called 'the two doors' It is fab, and eplains kinda the where you are now and the choices set before you.

Straining on the toilet is a big No No. You need to sort that one out for sure. If you listen to your body you will learn the cue to when to go and then you can just relaxxxxxxx and your body will evacuate without any straining at all (also I have found that turning to one side aids this process)

Good luck, and I am sure that you will gain alot of knowledge from here :-)

Hi Marygold2:
I had been to a very reputable surgeeon (sent after a reg gyn did mesh suturing and it fell down) The first thing he said to me tht I really heard was that the vaginal walls are so close to the bowel that I may need a bowel resection and it would require 3 specialist in total for the surgery. I may need to have the colectomy bag WAAAA!
It was WRONG for me to ever have had any surgery-- I needed to adapt a less busy life..
Also starting to believe noone is responsible for getting the prosthetic (pessary) for vaginal use into the use it could have.
What to do?? I guess write health care professionals and maybe erode the long standing notion that surgery is best and effective cause this is NOT always the case. When we need to work outside the home and inside the home there is just so much to do and maybe the healing of muscle is not happening?
Messing up my bowel is not an option for me!

Hi Marigold2,
My rectocele WAS my biggest problem too. Now I hardly realize that I have one. If you will do a "toilet tips" search in the search box, you should find a post that I made under "Hysteroscopy and Prolapse". You will need to go down several posts and the title is "Toilet Tips". You said that it was "harder to pass urine or have a bowel movement" and these tips should help you with both. It is using the toilet like Christine says to use it but with controlled breathing. I found out about this by accident or trial and error or whatever you want to call it but it does seem to work. I have done this for several weeks now with very good results. I do concentrate on what I am doing and try not to strain at all. The tip on urinating always works and the BM tip makes a much easier BM and seems to always work if you really need to go. If I don't have a BM after a few minutes, then I just get up and wait until later. I do either eat an apple at night before going to bed or take an aloe vera capsule if I don't have an apple and that seems to keep me cleaned out. I hope this helps.
Little Bit

HI Marigold

We're in the same line of work. As I teach young adults I don't need to be on my feet all day, but when I first got my diagnosis and used to worry about those long lessons where you're supervising independent work, standing around and bending over desks, I used a sea sponge. It just made me feel more comfortable and seemed to take the edge off the effect of being on my feet for long periods. Don't know if this is something you have tried. Another tip is walking briskly whenever you can in the day- really helps put things back I find.

Sorry I don't know about the surgery, except for the NHSs blanket endorsement of it and the high failure rate.

Doubtful

This article is in the Library. Use the Search box in the Library.

Louise :-)

Hi Marigold

Great to hear that strong woman talking!

I took a similar decision and am now at the nearly one year
stage and my pop is measurably better two to three weeks out of four, and stabilized the rest of the time. I call that progress, though I doubt my doctor would be impressed because I haven't 'mended' it. That's the communication problem we have with mainstream medics: many can't think outside the 'repair' mindset.

I am about to take up cycling as I a) cannot afford British fuel prices b) hate driving around town and c) feel guilty about pollution. I have a feeling that as energetic walking has helped my pop so much then cycling in posture should not be a prob. Have you seen Christine's film on cycling posture on You Tube?

I'm sure that as long as you're mindful and don't heave big rucksacks around in a non WW way, and keep your 90 angle and lumbar curve when cycling, you should have a whale of a time. Don't let having a bit of pop stop you doing what you love, if at all possible.

Doubtful

I have benefited from doing pelvic floor exercises My physio has shown me how to do them, It takes months to improve but is worth it also I brought a Neurotrac Pelvitone I saw it advertise on the net and it has helped a lot to speed things up. I also do Christins exercises and try and stand in the proper way I have a mild pop thankfully and have been told by the physio I dont need to use the device no more, but always continue with the pelvic floor exercises .I was interested on reading Christins book that she advocated these exercises with some of her own and intend to do those illustrated in her book which I found helpful.

Marigold,
I am new to this forum, but so grateful to have this support group and gaining new knowledge. I also have a rectocele, and a cystocele and have been told about the surgery, without using mesh, which would involve several days in the hospital. Is this what is called a sacropexy procedure? so many terms are being used and I am confused and overwhelmed. I was supposed to have the surgery in two weeks, but thanks to finding WW, I have decided to postpone my surgery. I feel I really need to give the posture and exercises a chance. Also, I have to get the constipation under control. In addition, IF I need to have surgery, I would like to have time to explore further options and see if there are less invasive procedures. The surgery described to me is so invasive, requiring 5 hours, harvesting fascia, not using mesh, and the recovery is quite involved, although I've been told the long term results are good. Certainly in this day and age, if certainly is needed there must be less invasive, laproscopic procedures for such a common problem. Does anyone know about this?

Hi Tova, yes there are less invasive procedures, but less invasive procedures have their own problems. Googling is probably the best way to find out what they are. Different doctors have their favourite procedures. Just remember that anything you read on a Clinic's website is sales material, so keep your head about you and check out any better looking procedures by googling the name of the procedure and add "complications" and "side effects" to the search terms. This is where it gets messy. Of course I am not suggesting that you select your own procedure and find a doctor who will do it, rather that this is an effective way of understanding what they do and what can go wrong for the woman who is carrying the potential damage for the rest of her life.

I am so glad you have postponed your surgery. Give it at least a few months of WW techniques before you commit yourself to a surgery date, and see how you go.

Louise

Dear Marigold2
As a seventy two year old I am probably one of the oldest women on this forum. I have had the doubtful pleasure of a year and a half in the UK Bowel and Bladdercare and finding Christine by accident have to say I much prefer to be a Wholewoman! All they could advise after observation was Kegal exercises.
I have done Kegals until the cows came home which didn't work and been told next stop - a little repair surgery. The good news is that even at my advanced age the Wholewoman approach has helped enormously and from finding it hard to sit in the bath I can now forget Pop a lot of the time
and walk happily again. You will find all the help that helped me here at hand from these fantastic young women! So don't be in too much of a hurry to get a surgical repair.
I told my GP I would see how it went and go back again to talk about a "repair" or not in September. Just now I know that would be a big mistake. I think I ought to write to the B&B clinicians and enlighten them... it's a long job to change the system. Hope it helps to hear me nattering on...all the best for the journey Amel

Hi Amel

It is very gratifying to hear this. We hear so much about how our bodies will deteriorate irreversibly as we age. I figure that I will have the same body when I am 90 as I have now. However, what I have done with it in the past and what I do with my body between now and then will largely determine what shape it will be in by then, genes willing.

Do we sit around looking for signs of osteoporosis, or twinges or arthritis? No, we nourish our bodies well, and move efficiently. Do we give up wearing tight jeans and mini-skirts because they are not clothes that older women should be seen in? No, we are wise enough, along with our younger counterparts to choose clothing that allows our female body to move and be used in ways that are supportive of its unique geometry and engineering.

I encourage you to write that letter. If we don't write, then they will not even know that better alternatives exist.

Louise

I'll take your encouragement to heart Louise and write a few letters!
Bless you
Amel

Yes, I always found the bike a good way to go, but never was able to incorporate an organ positioning spill. I wonder can you patent that?

... chuckle ...

hi
my experience of rectocele surgery is as follows - hope this helps,

I had surgery to 'correct' a rectocele in Feb 2009. I had read all the advice re 'keeping things natural and following the holistic path back to good pelvic floor health' However, believing that with approaching age related concerns, things would get worse, I went for the surgery. if I could turn back the clock i would! I have spent the last two years visiting gyneacology consultants/ continence nurses for stim use ( no incontinence but a measure advised by the NHS to strengthen pelvic floor etc) counsellers etc etc and i regret to say that in my view this surgery should be banned, unless the patient has serious difficulties. Christine is correct - for me it has caused an anterior wall to descend which feels very unpleasant compared to my original recrocele sensation, the recto vaginal area is uncompramisingly inflexilble - how could it be anything else when tightly pinned back in an unnatural position?( research fascia) Changing postures feels 'wrong' and standing from driving etc is a horrendous uncomfortable feeling. I have tried cushions with holes in ( no good!) standing up all day !! ( sometimes better!) need i go on?!

My advice, and this may not be the same for everyone, is work with your body as it is - it DOES NOT appreciate being restructured with a scalpel. A stim device pre op had actually really helped mine together with loads of fibre and a main meal later in the day.

Sorry if this sounds very negative but the things you have to put up with post surgery are far more debilitating and depressing than those prior to it including infections and bladder sensitivity - hope this helps!

my warmest wishes to you

blissed out

Marigold and Blissedout - could you say a little more about what you mean be researching fascia? I am reading what you write very carefully trying to avoid surgery for cystocele, rectocele and enterocele. I've had a hysterectomy so w.o. a uterus there is not much support. I'm working hard in my beginning stages of WW posture and knowledge.

Hi

Sorry this is a bit late -my computer has been out of action - re fascia. I seem to remember page 28 in 'saving the whole woman' ( haven't got the book to hand right now) but basically, if you cut through fascia it loses its natural spontaneous 'gliding movement' and also as fascia is a continuous tissue which holds all organs together, cutting it will set up reactions in other parts of the body. This is my uinderstanding and personal experience - I hope that you are persevering with exercises/ diet etc.

warmest wishes

blissedout.

Wow, about the POP realignment!
Daphne