cotton balls and corners

When there is something in these corners taking up space, there is less space for intestines to squeeze into.

Christine, I am wondering if we all have four corners, ie does your repair change that configuration at the top of your vagina?

Hi Christine

Congratulations on discovering a new trick that works for you. I love your creative thinking - and a cotton ball somehow seems so non-medical and not gyneacological. It sounds as though it might be a great aid for women with UP - and presumably it allows the rest of the vagina to close completely.I'm interested in trying the same with my urethrocele (or low down little cystocele, or whatever it is) for my bad days just after my period.

I've tried the cotton balls - the organic ones I had at home anyway were smaller than a child's marble when moistened and squeezed out - and they were comfy as anything but quickly worked their way down. Are the ones you used bigger than that?

My second question was about going looking for corners. Presumably, for a front wall bulge I'd need them in the front corners, and when they were well placed the cervix would be sort of between them and pointing back a bit? My problem is that my front corners seem lower than the back ones - not much space in them - is that normal? ( I can't reach my back corners.) When I got the balls in, the cervix disappeared up out of reach- so there stopped being any front corners and they were just sort of sitting up in the vagina. This is presumably great for Uterine Prolapse and the cystocele feels marginally flatter and higher, but only until they fall down - whether because they're too small or because I don't have proper corners. Do you have any helpful ideas about this?

Thankfully

Doubtful

I think you are right, Christine. I am sure that the 'shape' of the vagina is very variable, and depends on lots of factors, like previous surgery, degree and type of POP, the recovery stage you are at after starting WW, degree of retroversion of the uterus, presence or absence of constipation, probably others.

Perhaps we need to go back to the beeswax pessary idea or something similar. Right out in left field, here is a whiteboard exercise with a pretty big yuk factor. What about a pessary that is formed in the same way as a dental impression? A cast could be taken of the woman's vagina with a material that is flexible, that cures in the vagina with all the corners, and would flex in use, as her body changed position. Goodness knows how you would pour it in there!!!!

It could even be a thing like a breast implant, with a thick skin and filled with gel, so the front and back walls could slide over each other. The top would slip over the cervix. Either way it would open out in the vagina but readily fold for taking out.

It wouldn't really matter if it came down a bit when intraabdominal pressure rises. If it is the right shape, it could possibly reposition itself as the woman reestablishes her composure, her posture, and the correct way of using her body.

Wouldn't it be great (or not!) to establish a research relationship with Milex or some other prosthetics manufacturer with the aim of designing better or custom made pessaries? A company that didn't even know what a vaginal pessary was would probably be a better candidate than an existing manufacturer. No pre-conceptions. The other requirement would be that the company would deal directly with the woman concerned, not doing the research through the woman's gynaeccologist or family doctor. This is about women buying stuff to fit them, like bras and shoes, not about doctors giving them something that the doctor thinks will do the job.

I am also thinking of the possibility of using Dr DeLancey's technique of painting the vagina with barium paste, and taking images of the vagina in 3 planes, converting it into a 3D graphics software file, and making the pessary to exactly match the woman's vagina, when she is standing in a position where she can retain her organs in place. This might be bent over at the hips. The technology for making very precise 3D shapes from 3D graphics files is how industry makes new shapes these days, so the manufacture of a custom pessary could be reasonably straightforward. Most of my dental crowns and big fillings have been made this way in the dentist's surgery, though a pessary would no doubt take much longer than 30 minutes to carve out of the model material than a tiny dental crown! It might also be necessary to replace the pessary every few weeks or months with a new custom shape, as the body moulds itself around it, and reconfigures a more normal pelvic organ configuration.

It would probably be more of a splint than a pessary, designed for temporary use for a few weeks or months to reposition the pelvic organs.

Yeah, OK, I have really lost it now! I don't even use a pessary! Who am I to be suggesting alien-like objects to fit vaginas?

Louise

"You want fries with that?"
"No thankyou, I don't think so. Let me just check ... How about an upsize?"

Long gone are the days when good products made it to the trolley on the basis of their quality. These days it is the products with the highest markup or sufficient volume to generate more small markups that make it into the trolley. Good quality products don't even make it to the shelves or out of the factory, often having their trademarks purchased and shut down by their lesser quality competitors who shoot anything that threatens their market. There goes that cynical bitch again.

However, the world is clambering for better breast enlargement prostheses and better prosthetic limbs, both of which come with a hefty, often insurance or government subsidised price tag. We are clambering for better designed knee support braces, better orthotic shoe inserts, and better designed office chairs, and lumbar supports, that enable people to work and live without damaging themselves, or to manage already damaged bodies.

Why are we not clambering for better designed pessaries?

Sammy has certainly shown the benefit of finding the best pessary solution, albeit a less worse option than doing without. This is wonderful for Sammy. I wish we were able to come up with different, more radical, pessary solutions for women who have not found a pessary that is more trouble than it is worth.

Fer-cry-sake, Dr DeLancey has not been able to (or won't) tell me about how the shape of a vagina changes with age, or by body position, and I can't find answers on the Net, so I am reduced to doing suspect, fetish-style tricks with a chopstick. Kiddies, don't try this at home! (Furrows brow and wags finger at imaginary kiddie in room)

I have not yet ruled out the option of filling a couple of condoms with panel-beating bog and inserting in in my vagina, and standing around waiting for it to set, then remove it, to see what shape my own vagina is. Then doing the same thing lying down. Kiddies, don't try this at home either! In fact, stick to knives and forks. No, that's not a good idea either. Kiddies, just don't play with your vagina at all. You will get warts on your fingers and nobody will want to marry you.

Not left field- center field!
I agree that something is missing in treatment of prolapse in a caring society-
I had 1 product inserted and am almost pleased with it...
It is a bit too big and I don't trust myself to remove and clean it and give self a break but there are so many possibilities to find a perfectly suitable muscle support for my sag.
It gives me total relief from pressure of prolapse
Bleeding is a left over from the inital hysterectomy treatment which was a violation of my healty uterus.
BTW My breast do not sag- why oh why did my uterus and vagina?
Hopefully somone sees your posts who can start working on this
To be a denturist in Ont you only need to learn the trade- by watching someone - it is not a licenced funtion as far as I know. the lady who made my dentures said her mother got her to work for a denturist and she picked up the skill and started her own practise.
Yet to provide a pessary you need to be a uro-gynaecologist and order from a multi- national-- made to measure sounds very realistic
Seems to me the privacy associated with the vagina is the hurdle preventing women from getting help where it has been desperately needed... is noone listening....
Surgery is painful and faulty- a prosthetic offers help without invasiveness

Yes Sammy, you are so right. It is centre field but to suggest it to anyone outside of WW would be left field. Would you agree with that?

I was quite serious about the custom designed pessary.

Was it you that I suggested write to Cooper Surgical or Milex and request some better designed pessaries?

Is there anyone out there who has contacts in the human prosthetics industry? If we don't take action to improve pessaries for women, who is going to?

I did see in the article here, http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000501/2719.html , that pessaries cost between $31 and $50 each. What sort of a ripoff is that for something so simple, that seems to be so unsophisticated in its materials, design and construction? Surely they can do better than that? Or maybe they can't? I think we need dialog with them.

I am new to this WW forum, having posted only once before, but I want to say how much I have appreciated it. I hope Christine will read this post, because I do want to express my appreciation for such diligent and thoughtful attention to the subject of prolapse.

After I purchased a book, DVD and baton bundle from the WW web-site, I purchased two additional books. One was for my gynecologist. I was reading your book while I waited for her to see me for a diagnosis. She asked about it, browsed through it and seemed interested. (I thought she might actually learn some things if she had the book.) The other was for my Pilates instructor. Now I am considering purchasing another book for my three 30-something daughters to read so that they will be aware of the possible repercussions of their exercise and postural habits.

I am 64 years old, experienced menopausal symptoms beginning about age 40 and have been on low-level HRT ever since (revisiting the issues and concerns each year at prescription renewal time). I have given birth vaginally three times with episiotomies. My last was an unmedicated Lamaze-trained childbirth attended by an obstetrician accustomed to women having anesthesia; he used forceps (much to my pained chagrin) to turn the baby.

I also have scoliosis that has progressed somewhat as I have aged. I have been a walker/runner and intermittent weight exerciser for many years. For the last ten months I have been working with a personal Pilates trainer. In the last four months, I reviewed with her my progress and mentioned that I didn’t seem to be making much progress on my little belly pooch. She doubled down on the lower abdominal exercises.

Four weeks ago prolapse occurred. The first thing I noticed was a feeling of having a very large wad of toilet paper stuck. When I explored, I found the bulge and kind of had a sense of what might be happening. Of course I started researching the subject on the internet and found the WW site. Over the next week, after reading a bit about the WW posture, it got somewhat better and felt more like a large tampon string. Now that I have read your book, Christine, I realize that my sense of unusual, sudden and severe constipation just before my awareness of the “toilet paper wad” was very much connected.

My diagnosis was cystocele and mild uterine prolapse. Since reading your book I have concluded that I also have rectocele.

Your book and DVD have been extremely helpful. I share “Sheepherder’s” great appreciation for your detailed explanations and illustrations of the female anatomy and this condition. These resources have answered so many of my questions. And this WW forum has been and continues to be wonderfully enlightening. Thank you!

By the way, what my gynecologist gave me by way of information was a tri-fold pamphlet that named the different types of prolapse. That was it!! So you can imagine how grateful I am to have such a treasure trove of resources. However, I am still full of questions and am still dealing with a level of depression and sadness over this “betrayal” by my body. (I recognize that you probably believe a more accurate assessment would be that I have unknowingly betrayed my body over the years.) I am realizing the need to re-evaluate the way I approach every activity in my life. And I am sad about losing my waistline, which I see happening as I practice the WW posture.

Through my Pilates instructor I began about nine months ago using a process called “melting,” which utilizes three balls of different sizes and densities. These are rolled under the feet in certain patterns. It is essentially self-administered reflexology and is designed to soften and nourish the body’s connective tissue. Imagine my surprise when I discovered through your book and DVD that prolapse is a failure of connective tissue. And I thought I was taking such good care of my connective tissue!

I stopped all exercise for four weeks while I concentrated on reading your book and processing the information, and I focused on maintaining the WW posture. I spent a lot of time lying on the couch, taking your advice to rest. I decided that, essentially, I had an internal injury, and I didn’t want to make it worse by continuing to do things in the wrong way. I needed some down time to figure out how I was going to manage my life. I have been fearful about starting to exercise again, thinking that I may worsen the prolapse.

I think I remember that on your DVD you talk about firebreathing and nauli as being helpful in “reconforming” the connective tissue in the pelvic area. I have tried those only once and I am certain I don’t have the technique perfected. As you say in the book, they are powerful movements and need to be done correctly. I am definitely taking it slowly.

You also mention in the book the possibility of stabilizing and reversing pelvic organ prolapse. However, you also mention that after prolapse the connective tissue in the pelvic area is like a stretched-out sweater and that it is never restored to its original condition. I am hopeful that attention to the posture and appropriate exercise will help reverse the prolapse.

I met with my Pilates instructor a few days ago. She watched much of the DVD and we discussed how I can continue to work with her. (By the way, after watching the DVD she mused that perhaps my scoliosis has flattened the natural curve of my back, making me susceptible to the pelvic organs moving out of position.) I scheduled an actual workout session with her for next week. I am still apprehensive that, even with eliminating the Pilates exercises that pull in the belly, I may make things worse while trying to keep my body toned and in good shape.

Hence, my questions:

1. Might I worsen the actual condition, or is it simply a matter of the symptoms becoming more or less apparent based on my level of activity? Said another way, once prolapse occurs, will the connective tissue become any more damaged than it is at the time symptoms became apparent?

2. Can the connective tissue actually be healed, re-formed, strengthened, or in some way improved so that prolapse can be, not just stabilized, but actually improved?

3. Yesterday I read a chain of posts about using cotton balls as a pessary, in which there was conversation about pharmaceutical companies ignoring the need for custom-formed pessaries. This question occurred to me: Why do you not approach a pharmaceutical company to work with you in creating such a product? It seems as though if they become aware of the number of women who would be potential customers they will believe the financial benefit to be worth the investment.

Thanks for this forum that allows me to share my experience, vent my frustration and ask questions. And thanks for any helpful information you can share.

--keh

1) If it helps any, I have scoliosis.

And I don't have POP anymore. Anyone here can tell you I had an awful time of it with POP! Physically and emotionally. So at least I'm a case of a person with scoliosis (a double s curve) who got over the POP. Physically and emotionally. Oh, and btw, I am not super young. I am in my fifties.
2) I believe very strongly the posture stops POP in its tracks.
3) I did that anti-inflammatory diet in general after watching it on this site - and I really think it helped. I notice that back in my POP days (I like the ring of that, as if it's a long time ago, lol) when I didn't eat anti-inflammatory I would feel worse the next day.
4) Keep doing whatever they say here. They know. You are in good hands with Christine. I have faith in you, in this site, and you will do great. Keep the faith.
csf

Following the thread re cotton balls.....I was wondering if tampon makers would be interested in manufacturing something woman friendly that worked; I find non-bleached cotton tampons from the health food shop super plus with KY jelly so avoiding the plastic pvc ring and oestrogen creams the doc suggested do the job.
Not every day just if I'm on my feet a lot and am glad to know it comes out easily when I pull the string! To insert I point in the direction of the bulge as far up as I can and hey presto! comfort and feel as new for six hours.
The thing is it's disposable and easy to use and not "medical" the pessary the doc prescribed freaked me out as did the thought of the cream..."to toughen me up."
A cotton device could be shaped and designed to fit perhaps. We need a doctor with a pop and a mission to experiment. There would be a ready market if she was successful. Bring it on.
Just a thought
Amel