Desperation

hi there, and welcome to the forums
you are not stupid for thinking your uterus could pull up so quickly. it really can happen and probably did. what you didnt know is that we all experience ups and downs especially in the beginning. your next period is due in about a week? well many of us have a set back before a period, so maybe that's it.
the back pain could be just that you are using muscles differently, so you're stretching tight ones and calling on weak ones. should be short lived. can you get a massage? or take some hot baths?
more concerning right now is your emotional stuff. you need to sleep. sleep is restorative, both emotionally and physically. why arent you sleeping? worry and stress or pain?
the hopelessness is somewhat common, but take some time to read through the posts here and maybe you will find some hope. I personally have virtually NO symptoms anymore. I can have more babies, run, lift, whatever.
you are not extra ordinary defective, although I felt that way too. I found my prolapse at 31, but lots of women younger than that have found their way here too.
suicidal? that's pretty serious stuff. I've been there, and its always terrifying when I'm past it and look back. (while I'm there, I dont care much). is there anyone irl you can lean on right now? (I know I'm supposed to tell you to find a therapist but eh, that never works for me)
please, please MonicaC, hang in there a little while longer. this WW thing really works but its a management of POP, not a magical quick fix. It took me a long time to start to see change, I think its awesome that you started to feel things move so quickly. just because you're having a set back doesnt mean its gone. think 'two steps forward, one step back' and keep putting one foot in front of the other.
keep coming back here to ask questions or just to talk. we've been there.
(((((((hugs)))))))

hi MonicaC,

I am new here and wanted to let you know that you are not alone.
I am 35 (and have never had kids) and just discovered my prolapsed uterus a few months ago. I believe I have had a very mild bladder prolapse(cystocele) since my 20's and only realise it now that I am reading about prolapse in general.
I also have partial rectocele - just found that this week. not happy.
I can relate to so many, if not all, of the emotions you shared.
I'm so sorry for the despair you are experiencing.

It really is possible for prolapse to move upward fast. you are not stupid for believing that! I have had it move up a few inches after just a few minutes of firebreathing/nuali. I was amazed!
a few weeks ago I didn't believe it but it's true.
and the reverse is also true.
so you could have had the prolapse move upward, then gone about your day, and had it go downward again.

I also want to share that when I first began doing the posture, I was in so, SO much back pain that I thought I wasn't going to be able to do this Whole Woman approach.
so, like you, I alternated the posture with lying down when I could stay upright in good posture anymore.
another position I go in that helps a lot is on my hands and knees - or more comfortable, on my elbows and knees on bed - with my butt up in the air.
if you know yoga and can do 'downward dog' that can help too. I am not strong or flexible enough to do it yet.

what I can share is that, to my surprise, the posture is actually getting more and more easy and my back is SO much more comfortable! I am so glad because it was very bad pain.
I think I had been curving my lumbar too much and i still tend to do that but even so, the pain is getting much better as muscles previously out of shape are getting stronger.

do you have the funds to get the DVD?
I don't have the book but I just got the DVD and it is giving me a lot of hope.
and it's very helpful for me emotionally to have someone guide me.
and to see those 3 happy, healthy woman in the video doing the routine... and know that they all have prolapse!
we are not defective.
prolapse has been hidden behind shame and so we didn't know that other young women also have it. but they do. you aren't alone.

I had times early after discovering the prolapse when I felt suicidal and I still have times when I get caught in panic and feel overwhelmed.
I think it's very important to address the emotional stuff.
are you actually at risk for suicide? have you made any plans about when or how?
I feel I need to ask that :)

I don't know how into alternative modalities you are but I've gotten my suicidal thoughts and shock/overwhelm/panic under control with Bach Flower Remedies. That I previously had not thought much of.. I kind of took it in a 'why not - can't hurt' sort of mindset and was pleasantly surprised to find I got a lot of relief.

I hope that you will seek out some kind of support to deal with the emotional pain.
There are so many women on here who report that they live normal lives and are not bothered by their prolapses at all since doing the WW program/posture for 6 months or more.
we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones, I believe, to give it that long at least.
that's the attitude I'm trying to embrace when I do get into the dark emotional places. that I'm going to give it a 6-12 month chance.

I wish I was more graceful at addressing the suffering you're going through.
if anything I said offended, I apologise and please know I meant no harm :)
take care
Salt

MonicaC, listen to me. your uterus is NOT going to fall out on the floor while you are in the supermarket one day. aint gonna happen. I'm not sure exactly how far is the furthest it can fall, but I do know it isnt falling completely out.
what will I do if.....? is always a terrifying question, regardless of what fear follows the "if". so I will answer your question. you will deal with it. we experience all sorts of losses during our lives and most of them, had you been told years prior, you'd have said 'no way I could ever deal with that' and most of them you deal with. G-d, nature, luck, whatever you believe in has blessed us with resiliency and even if you dont feel resilient right now its lurking somewhere deep within you.
you do sound like you're in panic mode, and guess what....that's another thing we have in common, I've got lots of experience with anxiety (my own, my dh's, my kids, its in our blood I think). have you tried some self-talk? your mind is feeding you crazy thoughts, what with the 'how will I care for my kids' and the 'what if it falls out completely' nonsense. tell it to stuff-it, you are strong, gosh darn it you birthed babies! you are young, you are HEALTHY and you are motivated. you know a bunch of ladies who are successfully managing prolapse so you know it is possible for you too. YOU WILL BE FINE. say it. I WILL BE FINE. say it every ten minutes if you have to. because you have got to calm down. you have got to sleep.
now, back to posture, I overdid the low back in the beginning too, its a work in progress. took me a few MONTHS to get the posture down pat. keep at it, you'll get there.

also, if you really are planning to hurt yourself, call a suicide hotline or 911 or someone. you are too precious.

and, oh, you can lay on your stomach, its fine for POP. only thing I'd say though is if your low back hurts, sidelying is probably better. for the back, I mean. either way is fine for prolapse.

Hi MonicaC

I hope you are able to take in what these wise women are saying. Your body is most likely *exactly* the same as ours, and without defect. Sure, yours is not behaving very well at the moment, but it does have the capacity to normalise itself with your help.

In the next few months you will be reconfiguring the container which is your pelvis and pelvic region, and your abdominal cavity, as well as the contents of both these cavities.

By the say, when you get your body into WW posture your abdominal cavity and your pelvic cavity are at more of an angle to each other, rather than like a single, long tube. Think of a metal stove pipe with a dog leg in the middle. The dog leg actually decreases the drawing effect of the flue, because the smoke cannot easily get out in a straight line, so the fire will burn slower. This angle between the two cavities means that downward intraabdominal pressure has to turn a corner before it can push your uterus down your vagina. This is a cunning design trick to prevent prolapse.

The boundary between the cavities is a big sheet of ligament called the broad ligament which the uterus is bound to, which holds the uterus loosely in its place. This big sheet of ligament is like a loose diaphragm, and it will move into and out of the pelvic cavity when the uterus 'rises' and goes back 'down' again into the prolapsed position. It has to be loose because the uterus, bladder and rectum each distend in their own ways, so they need to be able to move around to accommodate this distention. After having babies it often doesn't completely shrink back. It can get big folds/pockets in it which can allow sections of intestines to extend down behind the vagina, still on the right side of the broad ligament but squashed down between the vagina and the rectum.

Maybe what you felt was probably one of these big folds straightening out and putting your uterus back where it belonged. Many women experience this 'folding' as retroverted, or tipped uterus, and it can upset the function of your uterus in terms of menstrual discomfort, excessive bleeding and painful spasms.

What we aim to do is to kind of rearrange our pelvic organs and structures so that the uterus and bladder go to a normal position, up against the lower abdominal wall, sitting on the pelvic bones,with the vagina at right angles to the uterus and bladder, so that intraabdominal pressure is pressing the bladder and uterus against the front wall of the vagina, not straight down the vagina. You might find this confusing until you can do some more reading.

However, at the same time we have to use up the space left by the fold, down in the pelvic cavity, and get those intestines to rearrange themselves in the abdominal cavity in a way that they don't slip back down behind your vagina again. There is a whole 'up and forward' rotation thing happening with the pelvic contents to get the bladder and uterus pressing the vagina closed. This can take some time to happen, as it has taken quite some time to get this bad. Think of it like trying to rearrange the rooms of your house without actually moving any furniture out on the verge. Everything has to be shifted and rearranged at the same time.

Yes, you will experience these setbacks, which can be dramatic and scary at the time but they do demonstrate how much movement you can get within your body.

All your muscles have their usual resting positions. You are also asking them to learn a new normal, so some will need to learn to be shorter, while others will have to learn to be longer. I agree that overdoing the lumbar curve is probably to blame for your sore back. I found pretending I really was a queen (and a darned sexy one, at that!) was a good way of shifting my whole posture. I had the whole slinky red dress thing happening in my head. Woo-hoo! Mind you, I was in my early fifties at the time, so I didn't share it with others, off the Forums, but I finally did get around to buying the red dress, and I love wearing it!

(Having said all this, I can see that a transformation in your demeanour will not come easily, because you are in such a vulnerable emotional state. You will be carrying yourself in a very closed up, protective way, when what you really need to do is to stand up tall and uncurl yourself because you know you are unassailable. You don't feel very unassailable at all at the moment, so bluffing yourself is the only option. Granolamom was right to say that you really do need someone to lean on at this time, to give you reality checks and simply look after you. (((Monica))))

I am sorry if I have only made you more confused. It is very difficult to find diagrams out there to support this alteration of whole body orientation that we know is the key to managing prolapse. This is to do with the history of the anatomy industry, which is another story altogether. I really think you will benefit from the new edition of the book where anatomy is much more fully explained and the illustrations are much better.

I have been doing this for years now, and it does work. My retroverted uterus flipped back to normal a couple of years into this work. After that my periods were much easier and the real recovery from prolapse was happening. My prolapses rarely give me trouble these days.

Getting rid of intestinal backlog and preventing future constipation is probably the major other factor. There is nothing quite like worry and distress to worsen constipation, because the body just goes into fight or flee mode, and digestion of food slows to a halt. Rearranging a grossly overcrowded abdomen and pelvis is like trying to lay new carpet before having a good chuck out of junk.

It is quite a challenge to teach your brain that it is OK to carry your chest and breasts high and proudly out the front, and to display your butt proudly out the back, to carry your upper body further back so you can stretch out your abdominal muscles to support a soft, relaxed belly and maintain your balance. All this while your body is complaining.

Do it gently, a bit at a time.

Just to add my name to those that are standing with you as you are as you go through some long nights and scary days. As other posts have said, most of us have 'been there' in some shape or form.

Better sleep will start the healing, someone has suggested Bach Flower remedies, for me it is one paracetomol that takes the edge of the pain: I take one very occasionally if the prolapses is achey at night. But there are other herbal (and probably kinder to your body) remedies that could help.

I found that getting a wedge back support for the car, and using it in the house to be more at right angles when sitting, has strengthened my back muscles. Also loose clothing: comfortable trousers, shoes, the lot.

i would say that my prolapse (grade 3 rectocele since January this year) has stabilised rather than receded BUt I manage to live just as full a life, if not richer.

Hugs from Wales (UK)

marigold

you crack me up, louise. although I agree, you are very Queenly and darned sexy too : )

but really the point of my post is that I think you gave some very illustrative and comprehensive descriptions in there, I found myself nodding along as I was reading.

for the newer members, read Louise's post a few times and then come back to it in a few weeks. it will make more sense each time, and add another layer of understanding to this work.

Monica,

Several women have responded to you in good faith. I see that you have been a member with us for well over seven years!

Would you please provide us with an explanation for this troublesome post? You clearly make it sound like you are new to the Whole Woman work, when in fact that is far from the case.

Women take time out of their busy lives to help others on these forums. Please help us understand.

Christine

Thank you for the explanation, Monica. I am so sorry you're having such a rough time of it. Yes, these conditions are progressive unless you are actively working to stabilize and reverse symptoms. You've already been given excellent advice and suggestions. It's late here now, but I will try to address the "falling out" question tomorrow. Hugs from Christine

so sorry ot hear that you sre having sucha hard time. I am right now also having a hard time it feels unbearable. One of the wonderful women here just advised me to take one day at a time nad do deep breathing. as simple as it sounds it does make a bit of a differance, Hang in there. You are not alone. I do send you my love and thoughts and wish you all the best. Maria

I have just had 2 nites w/o sleep and read in a homemakers mag that triptophen in milk and carbs in honey can help - I just drank a warm glass of milk and honey - hang in there- I found a pessary that has made it seem bareable and am getting used to and accepting the change with the hope that improved posture will get me where i do not need the prosthetic...

Hi again, Monica,

The greatest gift gynecology could give women is to reassure them of the fact that neither their uterus nor bladder can fall out.

The only “ligaments” (they aren’t true ligaments) of any concern to pelvic surgeons are the uterosacral ligaments. This is more accurately the uterosacral cardinal ligament complex, which encircles the cervix, bladder, vaginal sidewalls, pelvic sidewalls, and sacrum.

The anatomy women are not made aware of are the round ligaments, which are ropey structures embedded into a strong, wing-like structure that attaches the uterus broadly to the front of the pelvis. These travel down the inguinal canal on either side of the lower belly and root into the labia majora surrounding the vagina.

*Your uterus is connected 360 degrees around your body - it cannot fall out*

Another important structure to be aware of is the medial umbilical ligament connecting your bladder to your belly button with strong, unbreakable connective supports. The worst your bladder prolapse could get would be the size of approximately half a grapefruit. Even if it were to prolapse to this stage, it could still be reduced with both a pessary and the WW work.

Post-hysterectomy vaginal vault prolapse, on the other hand, can become a true
evisceration the size of a football, containing the bladder, rectum, and small intestine. This is what Sammy is holding back with her donut pessary, which I have hope she will be able to do for the long-term.

These conditions are progressive - to a degree - and the only way to stabilize them is to move the organs forward with breath, posture and exercise. Quiet, focused breathing has been mentioned on the forums a couple of times over the past day or two and it is true that it helps immensely.

Sit up into WW posture. On the in-breath let your lower belly come out over your thighs. On the out-breath, let it fall passively back. This quiet relaxation will also serve to improve your symptoms.

I believe you can do this, Monica. It takes will and discipline to provide the body with what it needs. No one else can do this work for you.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Hi Christine

Sorry to cut in on your response to someone who's clearly in need of a lot of reassurance at the moment, but I just have a worried mum question about this ligament.

I don't much have time to post, or to worry about my own health at the moment. (My health is okay by the way and I'm broadly living by ww principles through a hard patch in my life.) However, I've just a little worry about my small daughter's key hole appendectomy. They removed the appendix via an incision in the umbilicus, and then she needed further surgery to remove an infected internal suture and to remodel the umbilicus ( which had kind of been taken over by the infection). Cosmetically, it's been a wonderful result. Am I being over anxious worrying about if it could have damaged this ligament? ( I don't have any reason to think it has, but I'm always thinking about my daughter's future health since I became a whole woman).

Love to your little granddaughter and all the whole women who helped me so much last year by the way.

Doubtful