Firebreathing

Hi Miss Calli

The full explanation is in the book, Saving the Whole Woman., by Christine Kent.

Louise

Miss Cali, rather than have someone try to post a description of this move, it is best you learn it from the book (Saving the Whole Woman), DVD (First Aid for Prolapse), or preferably, both! It is a powerful exercise that requires some explaining and some warnings too. Important to do it right.....and so worth it.

hi,
I just noticed this.
I've got the First Aid For Prolapse DVD and have been doing firebreathing and Nauli a number of times a day for a while.
There don't seem to be any warnings at all in the DVD though (incl in dictionary of movements).
Is there anything I should know? I don't want to harm myself! :-)
thanks

Salt, I do not have the book with me right now, but I know you aren't supposed to do it if pregnant, menstruating, have high blood pressure, heart conditions, and I forget what else. Also it's important to make sure you are doing it correctly and that you don't try to work up to too much too soon.

hi Surviving60,

thank you SO much for sharing this
I had been doing it all through my period! I had no idea. :-)
during my period is one of the worst POP times of the month and I had been relying on firebreathing/nauli to keep the POP up far enough to be able to wear tampons. since my period has been weird the last year (perimenopause), it can often be present off and on for more than a week, stopping and starting.

If anyone knows why it's not good to do firebreathing during that time, I'd love to know (because I'd rather not give it up during that time unless it's totally necessary)

Salt, these details are contained in the book, which I had for over a year before getting the video. And yes, you're right, the warnings are not on the video.... Maybe Christine or Louise can help clear this up for the benefit of firebreathers who haven't read the book. Maybe it can depend on the level of intensity. She also says, best done on an empty stomach.

Well, essentially, the uterus is not a closed system. Eggs actually make a bit of a jump from the ovaries to the Fallopian tubes. In theory, practices that could cause retrograde flow of mentrual fluid (like inversions and strong abdominal vacuums) *could* cause this fluid to exit via the Fallopian tubes and enter the abdominal cavity. Endometriosis *could* result if endometrial tissue then takes up residence in your abdominal cavity. Also, your uterus is under a bit of stress from shedding it's tissues -- it may be best not to irritate it further with vacuum forces. I think it is telling that culture after culture ( well except ours) advises women to take it easy during mestruation. Be gentle with yourself if you can.

Ulcers - another reason not to firebreathe....according to the book.

thank you all very much for this info and explanations (I'm the type that wants to understand :)
I already have endometriosis so I definitely don't want to make it worse... though I have my tubes tied and don't know if that may make this issue not relevant for me. It definitely makes sense to avoid stressing my uterus worse when it's already working so hard.
I think I'll get a board that I can put a blanket on and use as a slant board during that time. period time is when prolapse is very bad and the only thing that has been making it tolerable was the firebreathing/nauli.
I'm also going to try a sea sponge pessary.

thanks again :)

thank you for sharing that Surviving60.
I think it would be so great if a little piece of paper could be included with the DVD telling these warnings. I'm sure I'm not the only one who could only afford 1 thing and chose the DVD instead of the book!
I actually have a duodenal ulcer and have been doing firebreathing and nauli many times a day since I got the DVD over 2 months ago! oops :-|
I haven't noticed it get any worse, it's in a mild phase lately anyway. I will have to decide whether to continue or not.
I really appreciate you taking the time to post this.
thanks :)

Agree Salt, that these warnings should not be omitted from the video. Though it seems a shame to cut back on things that are helping your prolapse but don't seem to be aggravating the other conditions. I know Christine and Louise have not been on the forum much the last week or so. I would be interested in hearing more about these warnings from one or both of them. Maybe they are included more as a kind of protection from worst-case scenarios that might result from really zealous but susceptible fire-breathers overdoing it in their quest for prolapse relief.....

that could be it. I'll be very interested to hear from Christine and Louise on this topic too.
I would think that if there was a huge concern, they would have included warnings along with the DVD (also for legal protection purposes).

I agree, it feels like it would be a shame to cut back when I get such benefit - those techniques are like magic for me! I love them.
I think I'm going to keep using these techniques in spite of my ulcer, as it hasn't gotten any worse from doing them many times a day for 2 months :)
if it ever does get worse, I will back off until it has healed more again.

I am doing them with a lot of awareness because when I began, I noticed that nauli caused me pain if I did it a certain way. so now I ease into it and make sure it stays comfortable. I'm trying to listen to my body and respect what it tells me.
I could see though, that if one wasn't tuning in like that, they could actually hurt themselves if they did firebreathing/nauli too zealously!

Hi All

I can see why it could be important to not do firebreathing during menstruation, as there seems to be a current belief, true or untrue, that endometriosis is caused by endometrium being sucked out of the fallopian tubes during menstruation, and somehow growing in the pelvic cavity on other organs. However, I cannot see for the life of me how it can possbly get to parts of the body outside of the pelvic cavity, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endometriosis#Localization . Maybe it is a risk, maybe it isn't a risk. Maybe it happens during foetal development and it never moves at all during menstruation?

Just because something seems to a body of doctors to be the cause, doesn't make it the cause. Doctors just don't have that divine power. ;-)

Having said that, endometriosis is pretty nasty stuff, and no sane woman would risk sucking endometrial cells out through her fallopian tubes and bringing it on herself.

As for the ulcer, I can only think that is to ensure that it doesn't bleed further, or form more ulcers if the lining of the duodenum is somehow weak overall. This would work in the same way as sucking a cut (making a vacuum over it, will make it bleed more, and break down clots.

I can see no harm at all in my jiggling exercise or other inversion type exercises, but I would go easy on the vacuum side of nauli and firebreathing during menstruation, lochia, and things like ulcers (also internal surgery sites until they are healed).

There is another exercise which could be of benefit. I will call this one LBR (Louise's Belly Roll). You get into firebreathing posture with relaxed belly, then consciously move a ball from your pubic symphysis, up to your sacrum, up your lumbar spine, out under your ribcage, down over your navel and back down to your pubic region, breathing in on the way up, and out into your lower belly on the way down; without a vacuum.

I visualise this as rotating your abdominal contents up and forward at the back and breathing them forward and down the front, pushing the pelvic organs forward at the same time as lifting the colon out of the cul de sac, and moving it back into the abdomen, where it belongs.

The pelvic diaphragm, made out of peritoneum, is close to vertical in WW posture. It separates the pelvic cavity from the abdominal cavity. It has only one organ going through it. That is the sigmoid colon, the last bit of the large intestine before it turns into the rectum, at the level of the third sacral segment, just inside the pelvic diaphragm. There is a kind of sleeve of peritoneum that goes around the sigmoid colon, kind of like the vinyl sleeve that goes around the base of a gear stick in a car with a floor shift, that allows the gear stick to move around, but keep a seal between the underside of the car above the gear box and the inside of the car.

This allows the sigmoid colon to distend when it is full, and shrink when it is not. It also allows the sigmoid colon to move in and out of the pelvic cavity without stretching the pelvic diaphragm. It allows the 'valve' between sigmoid colon and rectum to move out of the pelvic cavity as the rectum fills. The filling of the rectum involves quite large movements in the large intestine several times a day, so there needs to be some 'give' through the pelvic diaphragm.

Where was I?

Ah yes, when not in WW posture the pelvic diaphragm is more horizontal, and that sleeve in the pelvic diaphragm can sag down into the back of the pelvic cavity. Bits of small intestine will flop down into it under hte influence of gravity and squash the sigmoid colon and rectum, causing the rectocele symptoms we experience as pain, discomfort and inability to empty the rectum smoothly. It also puts more into the pelvic cavity than is meant to be there, so the nerves which exit the sacrum will also get squashed.

I think this is where a lot of pelvic pain associated with rectocele comes from.

The aim of the LBR exercise is to get the pelvic diaphragm vertical and literally roll the intestines out of this floppy sleeve, and back into the abdominal cavity, and push the part of the pelvic diaphragm that has the uterus embedded in it, at the bottom, further into the pelvic cavity, so that everything gets rolled forwards and the pelvic diaphragm can remain more vertical in WW posture when you stand up again.

Anyone got any comments on this?

Louise

Such great information Louise!
your posts are always goldmines.
I need to go find some pictures to understand the anatomy you shared. I feel like understanding this better could really help me.

with your LBR exercise, do you use an actual ball?

I was also curious about your 'jiggling exercise' so I did a search in case you'd already explained it before.... and you had.

I hope it's okay for me to post your description here in case others are interested too (and if not, please feel free to remove it or ask me to - I'm not sure how that works)

Louise describes jiggling:
"Bending over with slightly bent knees from the hip joints, and belly between the thighs, will help gravity to assist in moving your uterus and bladder 'up' and away from the vaginal entrance. Jiggling your knees around to assist the pelvic organs to move around and settle into new positions will also help. If you feel air entering the vagina you will know you have succeeded in moving the organs."

Hi Louise,

We do this belly roll in WWY2, however, we do it in the opposite direction: pushing the lower belly out on the in-breath and rolling it up, in and back on the out-breath.

My reasoning is that we are using the same dynamics as natural breathing (belly+organs out with inspiration) to forcefully move the organs forward. My experience is that this is one of the most powerful ways to move the uterus forward and vaginal walls up. If you can sit cross-legged with lumbar curve in place (thighs on the floor), this is a great position to do this exercise in.

I hope I don't add confusion, but I cannot even do it in the opposite direction because it feels unstable.

:-/ Christine

Hi Salt,

No, an imaginary ball. Re-posting my jiggling thing is fine.

Thanks Christine for your comments. I have not yet received my Yoga 2 DVD. I will go along with what you say. I don't know that LBR will help; it just seems to be intuitively right to me, but I think your version of coordinating the breathing is a much better way to do accomplish the same aim without using the vacuum.

It is interesting that I thought up LBR without seeing your new yoga video. Kindred minds, eh?

I think the visualisation side of it is significant, especially if the reader can figure out exactly what we are trying to do anatomically. However, I can understand the problem of visualising it when many of the diagrams of the female pelvis show the pelvic diaphragm as being closer to horizontal than to vertical, and WW posture will make it close to vertical. If the pelvic diaphragm is close to vertical for most of the time it is almost impossible for intestines to get stuck down the back of the vagina in the cul de sac, because gravity will make them fall off an almost vertical wall, especially when the belly in front of it is relaxed and spacious.

Do any readers need further explanation of this vertical pelvic diaphragm?

Love the jiggling thing! Thanks Louise, and thanks Salt for reposting. A day without this forum would be like a day without sunshine.

I am a bit confused and working to get the breathing correct. Breath in and extend the stomach and breath out and pull the stomach in to create the vacuum, right?

Yes you are correct. I had trouble with this for a long time - I kept doing it the opposite! - Surviving

I have had the same problem, still confusing what happens when...Also it is somehow easier for me when I am on my knees...
Ivonush

first of all i love both the yoga dvds, but i am confused about the breathing technique. is the general rule, when you pull your navel in to your spine you INHALE. & when you EXHALE you relax & push your stomache out??????? help!

Whoa! You have it backwards. Inhale as you expand the belly, exhale while pulling navel to spine.

I have the DVD of First Aid for Prolapse, I try to observe how the ladies are doing the fire breathing, but it looks like a stretch called the Cat, belly down, arch back up & repeat. I've looked it up on YouTube to see how it is supposed to be done, and it shows sitting cross legged, breathing in 2X, on the 2nd time, hold hand on belly and pump muscle in an out while holding your breath. After several pumps, you exhale totally. There is no real explanation on the DVD, it is assumed you already know how to do it.

You need to go to the Dictionary of Movements on the DVD for the demonstration. I don't know what YouTube video you are referring to, but it's not WW Firebreathing as far as I know. - Surviving

Morning! I'm new and have read as much as possible and what I could find. I just received the book and the vulva and the Proplapse DVDs. I was reading that some of you had the firebreathing and about nauli and ji jining. On mine there is nothing like that. It had the rocks, and the position where you go from the rock position then to where you have your hands out in front on floor and you lift your torso up off the floor and hold , which is great, as I was doing that stretch before I heard of WW, so I hope that helps. me. In did see some where in a clip for doing firebreathing on hands no knees, is right? In the clip it looks like, as well reading in the book that your head is down a bit , your belly is relaxed and then when you inhale through nose, your Stomach should expand out, and then when you exhale the book says you purse your lips and exhale through the small hole in your mouth, so your stomach should pull back or contract is that right? It did take slowly as this will takes weeks to get to this level, so is this something I should try now or later?what should you feel if your are doing it right or wrong? From what I'm getting can you do the exersices in any order and ones that are good for you. This is a stupid question , the jiggling with the hands on knees , so you start with the posture keeping head to torso I line, do you jiggle or shake knees front and backwards or sideways. I don't know how to ask this lol. What should you be feeling, and is one exercise that I can start out with thanks for your time.im trying not to freak myself out , I practice the posture as much as possible, and which ones to try first to get down pat then go on. Does it matter if you put a role towel or small pillow under lower back and lay on floor and do breathing to relax anytime you feel

I found it easier to start out on hands and knees firebreathing, and then worked up to the standing version. You want to make sure your have a long line from head to tailbone while doing this.

I guess you can jiggle in any position that gets your pelvic organs moving into the lower belly, but I learned and prefer to bend over hinged from the hips touching a chair or the floor, and then just jiggling and even jumping to get those pelvic organs moving. At least this works really well for a profoundly prolapsed uterus; you probably don't need to be as aggressive with the other prolapses.

You are working to get a vacuum when firebreathing, while inhaling through nose, your tailbone goes up and your belly extends out. While breathing out through pursed lips, your back slightly rounds as your belly button is sucked into spine. This done repeatedly creates that vacuum feeling that helps suck your organs into the lower belly where they belong.

Thanks aging gracefully, you must be a pro at this.I take it you are strait from head to torso. Do you usually have air in the vagina opening as one said she noticed. If you are doing it right? Sorry for the stupid question. I also read that some one tired organic coconut oil for dryness is that ok, I started twice a day with honey , not store brand for about 2 weeks or so now, in place of the Vagifem pill which becomes a cream. I would just like the doctor to say it looks less dryer. Then I can say yea, and it wasn't from the pill. Lol..although he did recommend this site to me. Do you have any tip on how you bend over to pick something up? I try by bending at the hip and one leg goes strait out while the other is strait , it seems easier for me is that ok? Thanks agin you guys are awesome.

Standing forever, I just wanted to add that the best resource to learn firebreathing, in my opinion, is in the Dictionary of Movements, which is the on the First Aid for Prolapse DVD. The book also contains good pictures and descriptions. For me, nauli is harder. The Dictionary of Movements covers this, and also, WWYoga3. I don't do nauli myself, I just haven't tackled it yet. But firebreathing is something everyone needs to master fairly early on in the process. - Surviving

I am guessing from your description that you have the first wheel yoga DVD, and that one does have the firebreathing on hands and knees as well, but I agree with surviving that the first aid for prolapse is the best place to learn the basics of all this work. Do you have that one? If not, it would be a great investment.
Also, once you get your materials, really go through them and study what's on there. Christine really does provide everything you need to know, especially the Saving the Whole Woman book and FAFP DVD. When I first started, I watched what Christine was doing over and over, and copied it until I got it right. Time and patience is what gets the progress in this work.

Hi the only items I have are the wwbook and the vulva dvd and the first aid prolapse, . Which I just got a week ago. The firebreathing I tried on my knees and hands, so when you inhale through nose do you exhale through your mouth pursed lips , I didn't see that in the video. In the dictionary of movements she showed how to lift baby , I'm 63 no baby lol. But how do you yourself bend to pick up off floor . One more thing can you put a pillow or rolled up towel under spine and just relax any number of times in the day? Is that a good stretch ?

You have the First Aid for Prolapse then. Great! Go to the dictionary of movements, bottom right of the menu. There she explains the firebreathing exactly how you should do it and the breathing. You can use this method on all fours as well.

Here is a thread on lifting:

https://www.wholewoman.com/forum/node/6955

At the bottom, I have also included a link to lifting a heavier object.

I just want to add that this process does take time and study. Keep going over it until you understand it, and then keep practicing until your body does too.

Best wishes!!

Oh yes, and it is perfectly fine to put a pillow or roll under lumbar while lying on the floor. Christine actually talks about this during the cool down in the exercises on the FAFP.
That DVD and the book have loads of great information.

I have had three abdominal hernias surgically repaired and now have another hernia at then base of one of the scars. Also have a hiatal hernia. I now have a stage 4 cystocele. Thinking I read somewhere that firebreathing shouldn't be done if one has hernias, I though I'd better double check and be sure it's something I should start again.

Hi Dancin,
It would really be hard for any of us to tell you how to proceed from here, given your surgeries. You may want to have a consult with Christine to see if you should be doing firebreathing or not, but I would think you could still work on posture and other exercises gently in the meantime.