vaginal irritation

Submitted by lilyrose on January 29, 2012 - 11:56am
Body: 

New here, but have been reading posts for a while. Haven't posted because maybe I've just been hoping this would just go away. It's not,
Several month ago, in the midst of a yeast infection, then bacterial infection, a grade 2 cystocele and grade 1 rectocele were found. No signs of either before that. Was on 2 kinds of medication to rid yeast, then 3 different vaginal creams over a few months to rid the bacterial infection. The burning was intense for a while. Sitting on frozen peas became my life. My uro-gyn told me about 2 months ago that the bacterial infection was gone. She says prolapses dont' bur - but it DOES - she thinks it's drying dur to my age, but had been using premarin cream before this happened. She gave me Estrace for use every night and was told to use Replens every morning. This was for 2 weeks, ending early December. Since then, she said to use them alterating nights. The burning is less, but still there - actually, a lot on some days. I've seen the Replens warnings on this site, but not much about Estrace irritation. Since the medication creams probably worsened the burning for a while, I've tried waiting that out. Uro-gyn says I can't try a pessary till irritation is completely gone. I see her tomorrow, burning is still there. Does anyone think this may be because of the Estrace and Replens - either/or?
I've, also, seen here that Vit E oil or olive oil can be used, but not sure if can be used inside as a moisturizer instead of the Replens. Have tried Emerita, as suggested by some here, on the outside not inside. It helps some, but again - not a lot. I don't think the burning feeling is all on the outside. Feels like some is inside where 1 of the prolapses is rubbing on the other. It is much better, but everyday is a slow process.
Been working on the posture, along with yoga.

Forum:

Christine

January 29, 2012 - 12:46pm

Hi and welcome, Lilyrose,

Frankly, I believe the epidemic in vulva cancers is due to radically increased levels of inflammation from the drugs that are used to try to cure this extremely common condition. There is a clear and well-known transition zone of hormone receptors from vulva to vagina, the upper border of which feels like (meaning the itching and burning) about one inch into the vagina. This is the area that is supported largely by testosterone and where the menopausal itching, burning occurs.

When we lose our major estrogen - estradiol - at menopause, we also lose glycogen that is secreted by the vaginal walls (and vulva? I don't know). Perhaps an adequate amount of testosterone-driven glycogen production continues to occur throughout the vulva in healthy older women. As we see on these very forums, some women are bothered terribly by these symptoms, some are slightly bothered and have the symptoms disappear, and some remain asymptomatic throughout the menopausal transition.

All data that I have been able to put together points to (1) having enough testosterone in these tissues. T is produced from androgens created by both the adrenals and the ovaries. After menopause a full half of testosterone production takes place in the ovaries. This is a critical reason why these organs should be preserved at all costs. The uterus, tubes and ovaries are one organ. The ovaries do not fare well after being amputated from the uterus. Intriguingly, it has been observed for decades that "nervous women" are the ones who develop vulvar dystrophy. This "nervousness" very likely equates to stressed adrenal glands and decreased production of androgens. Even more amazing is the famous Rancho Bernardo study that showed a profound dip in ovarian androgen production during the 50-59 decade, but a resurgence in ovarian production afterward - so that by the 70-79 decade total testosterone is back to pre-menopausal levels!!! This may be the reason vulvar dystrophy finally resolves in some old women.

(2) I think we can also consider that T production in the vulva is probably what keeps some level of glycogen happening. This substance attracts beneficial organisms from the environment, culturing the tissues in a way that is healthy and itch and pain free.

I have been able to completely eliminate long-standing vulvar dystrophy with the application of a tiny amount of raw, local honey twice a day. It is a huge pain in the neck, however. It doesn't seem to be the case that anyone is making glycogen tablets.

I believe doctor-chemists have known about this reality since the 1930's - the same time period patentable laboratory estrogen was developed. I am on my way to the library to verify my suspicions and will write up my findings in this month's Village Post.

I am also on my way to the drug store to buy a good brand of glucose tablets to see if they have the same effect. I don't know how much will be absorbed into my blood stream from vaginal placement of the tablets, but it is probably a non-issue. Estrogen/testosterone supplementation must kick-start vaginal glycogen production to some extent, but we know it is far from perfect and comes with risks and side-effects. If I am correct, this would be a huge blow to the producers of these extremely profitable drugs.

If anyone else wants to be in on the experiment - please post your findings!

Christine

lilyrose

January 29, 2012 - 3:03pm

So, I think what you're saying is that use of all the medication wiped out the balance of estrogen/testosterone? This imbalance is causing the burning raw feeling that I'm having. I'm taking estradiol and prometrium tablets, along with the Estrace cream, but maybe this isn't enough to restore the balance. Use of raw honey in the vulva area or glycogen (glucose) tablets might help. Also, saw on another thread you wrote about estrogen metabolites in urine. Would it be good to rinse then after urinating so these wouldn't further irritate the area? and/or to use something like for diaper rash.
About a month ago I saw a gyn (since the uro-gyn said they knew nothing about hormone replacement balance). He said the type, and the amount, of what I was taking was enough to counteract osteosporosis and that was it all it was good for. Also, he was totally against the testing for levels, said it was a waste and only to sell a new product. I was hoping for a test to see if I had enough to balance the lack of what I was making on my own.
I've recently turned 60 and just hate the idea of turning to dr after dr forever! I've not done that in the past and surely don't want to start now. Besides, they don't really seem to know much anyway, just keep trying different medicines that are probably making things worse. My visit to the uro-gyn tomorrow is to to tell her I'm not using Replens and finding something to use instead of Estrace that may be more friendly to my body. Would really like to find someone who knows something about alternative therapies, but guess I'll just have to keep looking and asking questions on my own. Thanks, Christine, for your help and for just being here so that women can find answers.

Christine

January 29, 2012 - 4:03pm

Well, female hormonal balance is generally greatly disturbed at menopause. The transition is huge and involves other feedback loops that are not reconnected by estrogen supplementation. It is a fantasy to think reproductive-level balance can be restored by steroids alone. I think the reasons some women hardly notice the menopausal transition have to do with strong adrenals and a metabolism that does not convert too much testosterone into estrone. I think we have plenty of estrogen post-menopausally and probably the reason the burning and itching do not extend high into the vagina. The barrier salve is more for the "next time" you pee. I don't know how washing would work - my guess is that the receptor connections get made at lightning speed while urine is washing over the area.

ON SECOND THOUGHT:

I am at the library now and it looks like glycogen is the important player here. I will ask the pharmacist how one can obtain a glycogen preparation. Glucose will probably not work.

Christine

lilyrose

January 29, 2012 - 6:38pm

Thanks, it's so good to have people really "listen". I'd been having no trouble, Went through menopause using very small dosage of HRT and vaginal cream for several years. Everything's great one day, the next I have a UTI that develops into a yeast infection that develops into a bacterial infection AND 2 prolapses. Over a period of less than 3 months, I was treated with Cipro, diflucan, flagyl cream, then cleocin (twice), estrace, and replens. My primary care dr. sent me to a gyn, who sent me to a uro-gyn, who sent me back to the gyn, and the whole go-round. I think the harsh medications caused even more irritation. The uro-gyn says the prolapses are "slight", which may be true, but I never felt them before 2 days into the UTI that became the yeast, etc. It is her PA, that I usually see there, that told me grades and offered the pessary (for when irritation is gone).
I've been off everything, exept estrace and replens, now for about 6 weeks. The thing is I've found out more from your site than from the drs.