Menopause and Prolaspe

Hi Bay – The best encouragement that we can give you here, is to give the WW program a try. It is not a quick fix. It took me months to get to a point where I didn’t have to remind myself of posture all day long. I have prolapse and always will, every day. But I got rid of the fear and dread of what the future might bring, because I took this knowledge and trained my body with it, and now I carry myself with more confidence than I did back in those blissfully ignorant days when I’d never even heard the word. Use the tools! Commit to the posture, find yourself some moves that help pull your organs up when things get low…..let this process really engage you because if you do, you’ll feel better just from doing it. Stick around, because this is the place to stay sane. Best of luck to you - Surviving

Hi Bay - Firebreathing is a tricky move! It took me months to get up the nerve just to try it. But it is worth the effort when it finally "clicks". Hands and knees is a great position, I too found it easier at first because I didn't have to worry about my hands slipping down my legs. You can do it in lots of positions; the really important thing is to get the breathing sequence correct. ON THE INHALE: Relax the belly, it will expand as you breathe in, and your butt is in the air. ON THE EXHALE: This is when you pull everything in and up, tucking the butt, as you exhale slowly through pursed lips, creating a vacuum. The breathing feels backwards for many people (including me) at first. Just keep trying.

I'm not a diet guru but I do know an anti-inflammatory diet is good for overall health, because inflammation is the root cause of so many diseases. Use the search to find posts and articles; I think Christine has a video on the Cottage link.

Christine does address lifting and exercise in her book. Use the search bar on this forum to look for posts. I'm always mindful to follow what she says about angles.....watch the angle of the body and try to avoid obtuse angles (greather than 90 degrees) as these stress the organs the most. - S60

Hi Bay - I don't have a really low-hanging cervix myself (I have what Christine calls "nature's pessary" where the 'celes help prevent the uterus from coming down too far). So I can't answer your question too well about the enterocele being in the way during firebreathing. Logically, I would think that pushing things up before you start the firebreathing, couldn't hurt and might help. If you have normal dynamics going on in your pelvis there (i.e., no previous repair surgeries), then everything's connected and the firebreathing done correctly would be helping EVERYTHING move up. Furthermore, in a normal FB position where you are bent over or even on hands/knees, all the organs should be in a good position anyway. Would appreciate some other member comments on this. - S60

Yes, sounds to me like you do have it. Another move I like, those deep plies where you go up on the toes while in plie. If you are in really good posture, chest pulled up tall and the belly REALLY relaxed, the organs feel really stable while doing this.

Well, you’re just lucky, I guess! Or else I need to get off this laptop and back to my life! Seriously, you should be starting to feel pretty normal by now, if you’ve been reading a lot on here. Just remember as you go about your day, look around you and realize that prolapsed women are EVERYWHERE. And not to make light of your particular case, but no, not unusual at all. Just be patient. You are right about the posture being the main thing. You will need the other things too – exercising in posture, perfecting your firebreathing, you will need these tools to keep things stable, and some days will be better than others so don't get discouraged. Keep it up! – S60

Once you have a good understanding of posture principles, you can do pretty much anything you like that is not compromising pelvis support. If you can do something in posture, without collapsing the spine, and if you don't feel your organs under strain when you do it, you are most likely OK. Christine talks about the angle of the body during exercise....right angles or acute angles are good, obtuse angles (such as on a recumbent bike) are not. Listen to your body!

Hi Bay

Just got back to the Forums after a couple of days away from them. Surviving60 has given you a lot of good information to work with. Wholewoman methods are very much 'whole body' in nature. You really have to do them all consistently, to the best of your ability, to get maximum benefit.

Don't expect it all to get better overnight, but over the next few months you will see some improvement, and the improvement will hopefully continue. Your body has been like this for years so it may take years to get maximum benefit. This new posture may take some time to get used to, so have as many rests from it as you need during the day to fix any discomfort. You will eventually get used to WW posture, and feel weird when you go back to your old posture.

Plenty of rest is also about not rushing around like a mad thing, constantly tense and on the go. Stress and worry will curl you up into a self-protective, slouched c-shape, the exact opposite of Wholewoman posture!

Posture is the most important factor, but Wholewoman posture 24 hours a day will not work well if you are constipated, which crowds the abdominal and pelvic cavities, and hard stool makes the bowel less malleable. It cannot change shape and position as well as a bowel with soft contents that keep moving. Constipation also encourages straining while emptying the bowels. Addressing the constipation, working out what is causing it, and preventing its recurrence is very important. Search the Forums using the Search box, for ways of getting constipation under control.

Ensure that your clothing is not tight, or making you hold your tummy in, so your pelvic organs have a safe space resting forwards onto the lower abdomen, rather than hanging into your vagina.

The elliptical machine should be fine, but exercise is only secondary to posture and gut management. Ensure that you don't have to slouch your shoulders and tuck your butt to get your hands far enough forward on the 'push' stroke.

As your uterus has been so low, I wonder if you would consider being fitted professionally for a ring pessary? Pick the fitting person carefully, as some doctors are more experienced than others. A pessary can be a wonderful crutch to get you started. It may be what enables you to put thoughts of surgery on the back burner and give Wholewoman techniques a fair trial.

Your situation is very typical of an older woman's experience. You will find that others will probably chime in as well. But ultimately it is up to you to do the work, in order to get the results. Here's hoping you can get enough improvement to be workable after a few months.

Ultimately you will be able to identify almost unconsciously what causes your symptoms and amend the way you use your body to avoid these situations.

Louise

hi there Bay
I think surviving 60 and louise have given you some wonderful advice. only wanted to share that it took me a very very long time to make the posture natural for me. and it took me so long to learn the firebreathing, I nearly gave up. have you tried nauli? that move works wonders for me, really pulls things up. at first, everything falls back down, but once you have the posture going all the time, there will be more room for your uterus to stay up. chances are that in time, it will stay up for longer and longer.
I have no experience with pessaries but agree with louise that you might want to give it a try.
I walk on the treadmill when its too cold outside, I havent ever tried an elliptical, just be aware of your posture. walking in WW posture is really good for you, but if you find yourself tucking your bum and leaning into a different posture on the elliptical, I'd skip it.

and oh, one more thing, I read somewhere that nauli is good for constipation too.

you are also not the only one consumed by the prolapse. I think we've all been there. the good news is that once you figure out how to manage it (and I think you will) it will slip to the back of your mind so you can go on with your life.

This work takes a long time...the bones and muscles have to slowly pull the connective tissue "sacks" containing the organs back toward their normal positions. The connective tissue at your age is much like a stretched out wool sweater that needs a lot of gentle care to "re-block". Our hope is that the posture will become intriguing enough to you in terms of general well-being that you will do it in spite of not seeing immediate improvement with your prolapse. Lo and behold, some months down the line you may be surprised to find you notice your prolapse symptoms less and less.

Don't let the postural work be a burden. Simply pull into WW posture as you sit at your computer, walk across the room, etc. for the pure enjoyment of feeling the gentle stretch of your gravity-free system at work.

:) Christine

Hi,
I have been doing WW posture for 3 weeks and my back gets sore. I stay in the posture when I walking or standing and when I'm at the computer. Is this ok or Im I doing something wrong?

It is something different for your body to get used to. You don't need to exaggerate the lumbar curve; as long as the belly is relaxed and the chest is pulled up, it will take care of itself. I think that some post-hysterectomy women can have trouble with this, because their whole body dynamics have been altered in so many ways. Yet even for them, working to keep the remaining organs forward is a good thing, if the back is OK with it. I'm not an expert here, so anyone please correct me if wrong.

Hi,
I have not had a hysterectomy. Im trying really hard to let my belly relax. Maybe Im exaggerating the lumbar curve, I will work on it. Its been 3 weeks and I haven't notice any change. Thank you for your help.

I have been doing the posture now for about six months or so ...

At first my back ached, my legs ached and I tired of it quickly. It was hard work and painful.

I can now hold posture 80-90% of the time and I sit an awful lot at computer and artwork. My posture with walking looks so much more elegant, elongated and upright - while perhaps my stomach is not pulled in I don't look flabby as the front torso is lengthened in a subtle way.

I have to share - I went to my massage therapist who works with trauma and injury, has treated me for ten years but I haven't seen him for a long time .. I have chronic issues .. however
He said for the first time that I was 'balanced' in terms of my hips were aligned!
Although I have chronic pain from ongoing issues through the pelvis, hip, legs, knee and foot - at least my general structure is more balanced which means other areas end up being more aligned and less difficulty with aches and pains in time.

Thanks Takecare, this is a wonderful post especially coming from you, because I know that you have many health issues.

It is so true, that what this posture does for our hip joints is probably going to save many of us from hip fractures down the road. I know that it took a long time to get to the point where I am now (coming up on 2 years) but I can feel a complete change in myself. I know that I look better, because I always had lousy posture and a tendency to slump. Everything is starting to feel "right". The whole body settles into a much more comfortable and stable way of holding itself. It takes time and work, Elizmor. Think of it as the first 3 weeks of the rest of your life! - S60

Hi Elizmor

Sometimes back pain is caused by trying to make your lumbar spine more curved, which causes the back muscles to seize up. If you have pulled your tummy in for a long time it *is* hard to relax it. One of the things that works for me is to lift your chest, then push your belly out. Then relax your belly. Aaahhhh. You get a pleasant slightly burny, stretchy sensation when you push it right out. Then just let it go. Somehow, relaxing a pushed-out tummy is more effective than relaxing a pulled-in tummy.

The other side of the coin is to give your gluteal (buttock) muscles a good stretch, and the hamstring muscles down the backs of your thighs. If these muscles are tight they will unconsciously tip your pelvis backwards and hold it there. That makes it very difficult to lift your chest, allow your lumbar curve to form naturally and your tailbone to rise.

It just takes patience and a concerted effort to feel what your body is doing.

Louise

Hi Elizmore, I usually do not comment because I've only been at this amazing but hard work for 3 weeks. I also had back-pain but now it is starting to ease up. Much better than it was. I think my body is getting stronger each day due to the WWPosition. Louise has wonderful information though and she speaks from her experience. I learn something everytime she replies to a member. I loved her comment about lifting your chest, then pushing your belly out. Then relax your belly. Aaahhh. I tried this as I read it and it helped me. I totally agree that a pushed-out belly is definitely more effective than a pulled in tummy. You can feel it. Hang in there it will get easier but try to give yourself rest when you can. It helps. I'm also going to try the stretching of the hamstrings and gluteal muscles as she advise to see if they are tight. Something I do each day is I sit on the floor in the L Position with my legs straight out and my back up and I time myself. One minute first time then I'm trying to build on this each day. I think it has helped to strengthen my upper back muscles. You might want to try this. Jaylove

HI Jaylove

Just clarifying for Elizmore, that Wholewoman posture does not have the belly pushed out. I was suggesting pushing the belly out before relaxing it, so you get the muscles to move before letting them do their own thing. You could even:-
1 pull your tummy in before,
2 push your tummy out, before,
3 letting it find its position of 'at ease'.

Often we hold particular muscles tense to maintain certain postures. Then we wonder why we cannot relax them at will, and find new ways of doing tasks. What our muscles need is movement. We get that by doing exercise, being active through the day, and active muscle isolation.

I am not too sure yet which muscles are activated when we push the tummy out. I *think* it is contracting the internal and external abdominal muscles and allowing the rectus abdominus and transverse abdominus muscles to relax. Has anyone any ideas about how this happens? I would love to know your thoughts. We are all learners in this space.

These are the sort of questions we need to ask ourselves in order to understand how our body's mechanics works. As you are online while reading this post, and maybe scratching your head, try googling images of the muscles I am talking about, right now. Feel them in your body. This is the first stage in this understanding.

Louise, I was just saying that when I lifted my chest up and pushed my belly out and then relaxed my belly plus I even said Aaahhh that it worked for me at that moment. I didn't even realize my belly was not completely relaxed until I tried what you said. I was grateful for the instructions.

Jaylove

:-)

Im still trying to relax the belly. It is easier but still requires my attention. I am thinking that the breathe in is an eccentric action which stretches the abdominals and consequently probably encourages the lifting of the chest (over time and vice versa) And exhale is a contracting of the muscles which pushes the air out. Also in that regard (though understanding the muscles is very useful) maybe the focus is on the breath. I could never get belly breathing until somebody Told me to exhale and empty all of my breath and then just inhale and feel that it naturally fills the "belly". If we are belly breathing I'm wondering if we are then naturally "relaxing the belly" ... As it is never motionless if we are breathing, but also not tight (hopefully:). Don't know if that makes sense just processing my thoughts and sharing ~ ang

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!!!!!! You've got it. Belly breathing is contracting the dome-shaped respiratory diaphragm, do it moves downwards and causes a vacuum in the chest, so air is drawn in. The diaphragm is joined all around the base of the rib cage, all the way around to the spine, where its muscle 'legs' also extend downwards onto the lumbar vertebrae. The bottom of the sternum is above the bottom of where the ribs finish. Therefore the diaphragm is tipped upwards a bit, so when it moves down it also moves forwards. Our upper abdomen moves outwards first, then the lower abdomen. The 'legs' contract too, and pull the lumbar spine forwards during inhalation, and yes, the chest rises, but the shoulders only move back a bit. They don't move up. If you want to inhale further you can use your intercostal muscles to lift the chest further and move your ribs further apart. This is when your shoulders will move up.

During exhalation the diaphragm relaxes and becomes dome shaped again. this pushes air out of the lungs.

You will 'get it' one day, and it will gradually become more intuitive. The brain simply needs more input of the new habit in order to overcome an old habit. It all feels very unco while your brain is trying to do what it thinks is right, and has been doing for years; while you are trying to get its attention and teach it new ways. Your brain says, "Don't you go changing your mind on me. I know what is right."

1 Broken record.
2 Broken record.
3 Refer to 1 and 2.

Louise

:-)