Prolapse

Hi Daphne,

I apologize for being so absent on the forums. I’m working diligently on materials and logistics for the WW Conference, which is a *huge* project. My teacher-training class has been keeping me extremely busy through the fall and winter, and now this on top of it has meant working full-speed ahead each and every day (even Easter Sunday!) I hope everyone understands that the forums are a place for women to share and support each other, not a 24/7 consultation service. For years our moderators have bent over backwards and frankly it is easy to become burned out trying to help so many women. I appreciate your understanding.

Daphne, if you look back on our conversations you will see that I have tried to encourage you to see if this postural work will reduce your symptoms - with the understanding that you have a severe, surgically induced prolapse that may ultimately have to be managed surgically. I have always encouraged you to seek other opinions and come to your own best decisions.

Your doctor will not get away here with implying the Burch did not cause your uterine prolapse. Dr. Burch himself wrote time and again in the medical literature that this procedure pulls the front vaginal wall forward causing uterine prolapse in wombed women and enterocele in post-hyst women. Every pelvic surgeon is familiar with this phenomenon. The reason they continue to be performed is because gynecology assumes the logical response to this reality is to make hysterectomy + “culdoplasty” a priority, or a secondary response in cases of post- surgery uterine prolapse.

The “biological” mesh is either cadaver, porcine or bovine. This is the material that was used before polypropylene, but was generally abandoned because the body tends to absorb it over time, resulting in relapse. I don’t have an answer for you as to which surgery would be best, as they are all fraught with risk and failure. As I have stated before, this does not mean that some post-surgical scenario might not result in greater comfort than what you are dealing with now. I think surgeons should look again into ventro (front) uterine suspensions for women like you. It is not without risk to tether the uterus to the lower abdominal wall, but there is commentary in the literature of elderly women who have died with a decades-old ventrosuspension still intact and no history of further significant problems. I think if it were performed with careful attention not to leave loops where the bowel might wedge through and strangulate, then this might be a reasonable second surgery for women in your shoes. It would be like the Burch, however, in that it will pull the vagina forward, leaving a large space in back for the bowel to fall into - but the resulting symptoms (mainly with feelings of pressure and smooth BM transit) might be far more manageable than what you are experiencing now. I believe it is a very rational thing to point out that pelvic surgeries seem to be designed to bring on further problems that must be addressed surgically.

Please understand that I feel your pain and know how terribly uncomfortable and incapacitated you are. I can only hope you find the help you need.

Hugs and wishing you well,

Christine

Hi Daphne

Christine has said everything I could have said, and much more thoroughly. I read you post the other day and could read the exasperation in your voice. I am sorry I didn't answer you the other day. I just couldn't find the words to say.

Best wishes. I am sure you will make the right decision for you.

(((Daphne))))

Dear Daphne,

I am terribly new at all of this and so this may not be good advice at all - Christine and Louise please comment! - but maybe a garment (just google "garment for prolapse") for prolapse could help in the immediate sense. From what I have read, it can help the sense of things falling out. Praying that you will feel better and find some solutions.

Surely we must've suggested the V2 supporter to Daphne, but if not it is easily googled as well. :)

http://www.amazon.com/Prenatal-Cradle-V2-Supporter-Medium/dp/B000II8Y3E/...

hey daphne

I have no answers for you, but I dont think that means you need to stop posting. I think that your story is important and needs to be shared. It takes a brave women to verbalize that she has sustained this amount of surgical damage, and a braver one to try to come to terms with it and move forward. you are another kind of trailblazer, and since there is precious little real accessible information about women in your position, I think your posts are quite valuable. Thank you for sharing your story and please do continue updating us with your progress, regardless of which way you choose to proceed.
I hope you find relief
((((((daphne))))))

Daphne, I so agree that we all want to keep up with your progress! I was thinking about a thread on the forum where a couple of ladies were describing their home-made solutions for support. I don't know how their prolapse compares to yours, but I did find the thread. Scroll down near the bottom.
http://www.wholewoman.com/forum/node/4221

Hello Everyone:

I was diagnosed with bladder prolapse and uterus is somewhat prolapsed. I go in today for Pre-op with my Dr. I have a list of questions to ask. (suppose to have surgery on Friday) In my heart I want to say NO right now, and read Christines book anld use her exercise tapes to see if I am a candidate for managing my prolapse with surgery. I am scared, needless to say, but I have to keep reminding myself that it is my body and I can say NO. I would love some encouraging words. I am so glad I found Christines website.

Thanks everyone,
Eileen

Typing error. I wanted to say Managing my prolapse WITHOUT surgery...

Eileen

Hi Harrison - What you need to do is immerse yourself in Whole Woman for awhile before doing anything that you might regret. Surgery is a path from which there is no return, so just tell yourself that the option is out there if you decide to do it later. Give this a chance first. You sound like a perfect candidate to get results (I'm assuming you've had no other surgeries) but it takes time, patience and work. Please get started and post your questions here. Good luck and we hope to hear back from you soon! - Surviving

I have had no other surgeries, and I thank you so very much for your quick reply. I know there is hope !

Someone above said surgery is the path of no return. Boy, did she have it that right. Everything I had prolapsed when I was in my mid 30s. And I thought oh, yeah, surgery can fix that. WRONG! They (the doctors) piecemealed me together one surgery at a time; one perineal hernia on one side, then another perineal hernia on the other side; then one in the middle of my vagina. Unfortunate for me, I wasn't smart enough to ask question or do my own research (and the internet was not available to me back in the day. After about 10-12 surgeries and now in my mid '70s, one of the most important surgeries that was holding me together it seems broke down. And MESH is NOT the answer. Remember that if you don't remember anything else. I'm in constant pain, every day, 7 days a week; I cry, I pray, I see one doctor after another with no resolve to my pain. Yes, I am probably depressed by now. Who wouldn't be after 10 months of intolerable pain. What's next? I can't write about it here or talk about it. I'll miss my son; I'll miss my husband; I'll miss my cats!

Hi Harrison, check this out:

http://wholewoman.com/library/?p=16

Hi Meandfluffy.... You certainly can't blame yourself for anything that you have gone through. Good grief - before the internet, how did any of us find out anything? We knew only what our doctors told us. And if we had a friend or family member who had gone through something similar, still we would not have known that there was any other way forward. Christine's work, and the efforts on the part of her and her followers to get this information out into a hostile world....have been nothing short of a miracle for those of us who came along at the right time with enough faith in her story to give it a go. Thank you for sharing, and for wanting to help get the message out. - Surviving

Hi MeandFluffy, I read your story and my heart goes out to you. I do believe in miracles though. Know that I am praying for you. Thanks so very much for sharing your experience with us. Please hang in there!! Christine will have something to say to you - I'm sure or maybe Louise. We are thinking about you. All the best to you. xx Hugs & Hugs, Jaylove

I DID IT....I said NO to prolapse surgery and a Hystorectomy I didn't need. I feel so good about my decisison. I am going to order Christines Book and DVD now. My first step back to me. I am thinking of the Conference.....Is it for newcomers also?? Thinking about going....trying to see how I can make it there.

I cryed with relief after reading "Two Doors" I have had 2 weeks of stessfull decision making and weight loss, and sleepless nights, until today. I really knew all along my answer to the surgery was no. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing I am in control of my own body

So good to hear!

Hi Harrison, i am so happy to hear of your wise decision and that you read the "Two Doors" - everybody who is feeling indecisive should also read the "Two Doors" Surgery/historectomy is never the answer to prolaps unless of course there is no other way. I can see from your posts that you are a positive thinker. The natural way is always the safest way in everything.
Goodonyou and best of luck in your WW techniques journey!! Mishek

Hi Meandfluffy, I was so saddened to read your story and like Jaylove i truly believe in prayer and miracles.
Pray and believe with an open heart like you've never prayed before and insist that your pain be taken away.
Don't give up just keep on praying - sometimes we are tested to see how much faith we have.
Where there is no hope there is prayer - sending you love and comfort. (i am praying for you!!) Mishek

My Book and DVD should arrive today or tomorrow. I am so excited!! I have been reading the forum everyday, with such wonderful information and heartfelt stories, and watching the informative movies at the Library. After reading in one of the forums about putting a book on my head to find the natural curve in my back, I tried it, and WOW, feels much different than the regular way I walk. I walk around at work alot, up and down stairs, out to the warehouse, etc..... so before I start up the stairs, or down, I try to find the natural posture, relax my belly and am on my way. It takes alot of concentration, and sometimes I am to busy and I forget and go back to my "Old way" of climbing the stairs. When I sit at my deck, I try not to cross my legs anymore, find the posture and relax my belly. (Not sure if I am doing these things right, but I needed to try something before the book and dvd arrive.) My Bladder prolapse usually stays up until about 11:00 - 12:00 . (I start work at 8:00 a.m.). Then I can start to feel it at the base of my vagina. I think I use useless energy trying to get it back up someway. So at that point I try not to go up and down the stairs as much, and the prolapse seems to lift some. I have stopped lifting heavy thing, and pack my grocery bags much lighter, making more trips into the house from the car. I have always been active, doing things by myself....moving things, lifting things, aways have been an avid exerciser......It is really challengeing for me to have to stop alot of things I am used to doing on my own. I don't feel so empowered in that area anymore, though my self empowerment will now come from a different place..how to discribe it now, not sure, but I feel it. Hopefully, after my body changes with the WW Posture and my body becomes stronger once again, I will be able to go back and do alot of the things I think I can't do now. I am 61 yrs. and shouldn't be doing alot of lifting anyway. I could go into a self pity- party real easy, I will cry for a while to release the sadness and the change in my life all this has brought about, though I will go on with a new way of living to better myself, my mind, and my body. My family and friends (most of them) are so very happy with my decision of not having surgery. Some friends are taken aback at my decision of not have surgery. Wondering why........Without getting into much detail, I tell them I am researching and am going to work at alternative methods to manage my condidtion without surgery. I tell them, you can't take back any surgeries you have, but you do have a choice to try everything avaliable before making that decision. I can not tell you how happy I am that I made that decision.

So excited for you Harrison, you are on your way! I know what you mean about the weight on your head....if you are in good WW posture that weight just makes the effects of posture that much greater. The same can be true of carrying other things around; if you can manage to stay in good posture, a lot of carrying can be done. It's the lifting part that can be tricky. Your body will tell you. Good luck and happy days ahead! - Surviving60

I started the excercise tape and am reading Saving the Whole Women in sections. I am jumping right in but don't want to jump to fast. So, slow it goes. I am doing up to the second set of exercises, getting tired and not so balanced, so when that happens, I stop and watch. I love the movements, which I can adapt to easily as this kind of dance was part of my life years ago. Not so limber or stretched anymore, so I am hoping with time I can get back to that. As I get older, my balance has waviered, so this will help also. I am worried about going up and down stairs at work, as I can go up and down a mulitude of times in a day. Any suggestions would be appreciated. When I was at the grocery store, trying to stay in WW Posture was challenging, and felt strange and out of place. I tell myself I am standing tall and proud to be a Women. I am trying to stay in posture carrying my grocerys into the house. I can control that with having them bagged light. Faith, Hope and love will carry me through. How happy I am that this Forum is available. I am learning so much from all these wonderful Women !!

Hi Harrison, sounds like you are doing great. I don't think there are any specific things you need to do regarding stairs, just stay in good posture and the exercise you're getting will probably be good for you. Hold into railings so that you can concentrate on posture aspects without endangering yourself. I do this when exercising sometimes....I don't have great balance myself, and if I can hold onto something, it helps me concentrate on the other stuff. - Surviving