whole woman posture--question about the abs

Submitted by mamp on April 28, 2012 - 3:36pm
Body: 

Ok, here's a quick question for those who are actively using the whole woman posture:

From the 2nd edition of Christine's book, page 125 which describes the whole woman posture:

"Relax your lower belly. Have a sense of pulling up your abdomen from your last pair of ribs. Gently lift your breasts up instead of pulling your belly in."

If there was a scale of 1 -5 regarding how the abs are held or engaged, with 1 being hanging out and 5 being tauntly held or engaged, is it safe to safe that in the whole woman posture, the abs are being "held" or engaged somewhere between a 2 and 3?

Thank you to whoever could pls clarify this!

Monica

Forum:

Surviving60

April 28, 2012 - 3:46pm

My answer is, no scale. My belly is as relaxed as I can make it, chest lifted strong and proud.

WholeWomanPA

April 28, 2012 - 4:35pm

Dear Monica,
The abdominals are composed of layers of muscles. The transverse abdominis are the deepest of these muscles. They course horizontally around the abdominal wall from back to front. These muscles pull the abdominal wall toward the spine during passive and forced exhalation. By lifting the chest as suggested in the posture steps,the transverse abs hold a mild contraction during natural female posture so the belly is relaxed,yet supported. This action aids in holding the pelvic organs in their naturally forward position. WW posture does not give you a floppy belly or weak abdominals. It supports not having a pulled in tummy and a tucked under backside. This not only interferes with normal breathing but also helps push our organs back and eventually down and out. Look in the book on page 22 and read about the abdominals. Also in that chapter take a look at page 28 to see how the latissimus dorsi and gluteus maximus help with pelvic organ support. I have been doing the posture and exercises for at least a year now. My symptoms have greatly improved. I have given up having a flat stomach,however I am adjusting and feel better and look fine. Hope this helps.
WWPA

mamp

April 29, 2012 - 9:23am

Thanks Surviving 60 and Whole Woman PA for your responses. I think I have figured out this WW posture and am going to note a few points here. Moderators or experienced members, pls correct me if I am wrong.

1. The Whole Woman (WW) Posture is something we do "every time we are on our feet [walking, running] and in sitting positions too." Kent's book, 2nd ed., pg. 125

2. To get into WW Posture, you "have a sense of pulling up your abdomen from your last pair of ribs." There is no involvement of the abs (as Surviving notes above, there is no scale) because you are pulling up from the torso.

3. However, and there is a however, the WW posture -- which is "abless" in a sense -- will be problematic once a woman starts exercising where she is not on her feet or sitting, eg. Pilates mat work. In that situation, a slight (not fierce) engaging of the abdominals (maybe a 2 1/2 -3ish on the scale) is needed to protect the low back. This conscious ab contraction would be temporary while she is doing the mat work. Once that work is done, she could and probably should resume the WW posture to position the pelvic organs down and forward.

The bottom line, it seems to me, is that we are not supposed to walk around with our abs chronically engaged which pushes our pelvic organs up and back. The reality is that because many of us don't get our exercise solely from our daily activities, but do go to exercise studios, etc. we will need to some abdominal engaging while exercising in positions where we are not on our feet or sitting. I would also think that in sitting on a Pilates ball (unstable surface) we will also need to engage our abs somewhat and could not be in true WW posture (which is not about engaging the abs)

Monica

Christine

April 29, 2012 - 9:37am

You're almost there, Monica. WW posture is not abless at all! Quite the contrary, the abs are made very strong in this way...unlike shortening them by pulling navel to spine. The abs *are* engaged in WW posture, which is very self-evident. Just let your belly flop out....now lift your chest (don't forget the rest of the upper body WW posture, which balances the spine - very important). Do you see how your abs become engaged? Only in *this* stiffened torso way is the lower spine protected!! It is folly to believe pulling in the abs has any protective benefit to the spine. That is why all these seasoned WholeWomen never complain of back pain.

What can I say about conventional gym exercises except to substitute all those that stress natural spinal dynamics - such as the Pilates mat program. Stabilize your spine on a ball by pulling up strongly into WW posture!

Pulling in the abs only makes sense from a flexibility, or full range of motion, standpoint. We do pull navel to spine when firebreathing to exercise the abs fully, as we need this motion for defecation, vomiting, singing, etc. True strength and stability, however, come from lengthened, not shortened body walls.

Hope this helps,

Christine

mamp

April 29, 2012 - 10:34am

Christine,

Thank you very much for this clarification. Since you are saying the abs are engaged in WW posture, then it must not be zero, right? I am thinking it is something like 3ish? The precise number isn't important but I do think it IS very important to understand that 1) the abs ARE engaged in WW posture; and 2) the abs are engaged by pulling up the chest (versus pulling your navel to spine)

Since many of us work out at Pilates studios and elsewhere, we hear a lot about "using our abs" but it It was never clear to me before how the abs figured into the WW posture.

Christine

April 29, 2012 - 10:43am

...since in conventional terms it means pulled in, shortened. Surviving's assessment was correct, except that I would change the scale:

+3 is WW posture
-3 is navel to spine.

Anything in between is simply movement through the full range of motion.

+3 is stronger and more stable than -3. It is the full tension compression system, created by intraabdominal pressure pushing against fully elongated body walls.

-3 and everything in-between adds flexibility for full range of motion of the stable structural framework.

Surviving60

April 29, 2012 - 2:35pm

Reading this thread has reminded me of a major turning point I experienced last year in my WW progress.

At various times in my life, I’ve participated in organized dance and exercise programs. Last August a fitness instructor acquaintance invited me to her Les Mills BodyFlow class (billed as a combination of yoga, pilates and tai chi). Classes like these tend to move at a pace that requires concentration to follow the instructor. I barely had the opportunity to think which moves felt good and which did not, much less to be able to make any adjustments.

Had I decided to continue attending this class and learn the routine, I would surely have been able to figure out and make those adjustments. But what would have been the point? Instead, on that day I said to myself, girl, if you are going to co-exist with this prolapse for the next few decades, it’s time to get serious with the resources that you already have, and reject those which try to drown out or dilute those truths which are already self-evident.

I have finally taught my body how to stand, sit and move, and how to exercise and keep fit while observing those principles. No setting or situation where I am required to translate some other philosophy into my body’s new language, holds any appeal for me. Life is too short and that’s just too much to think about!

aussielou

April 29, 2012 - 11:10pm

Many thanks to all, this conversation is helpful to more than just those contributing. I think I remember Granolamom saying that for every ONE that posts it can help many more. So true.

Also I think it was surviving60 or wholewomanUK that recently reminded us that you need to be in this for the long haul...it is rarely a quick fix. It is useful to be reminded of this. While i have seen significant improvement, I am of course impatient for more. Seems I must make 'patience' my friend!
Am very envious of those making the journey to WW conference. Wish the distance was not so great, but will look forward to hearing about it all.
Regards to all
Lindy

aussielou

April 30, 2012 - 1:06am

Hi Monica,
This may help you, and others.
When I do my clinical Pilates - mostly on the reformer beds, but some mat work - my physio constantly advises and checks that the lower back is slightly raised enough to have an imaginary grape sitting there...and not to, squash the grape. this does feel like it strengthens the lower back somewhat.
I can't really recall her telling me or anyone else in our 5 person class to contract the abs, brace etc. in particular she knows my condition and is conscious of not increasing intraabdominal pressure while doing the exercises.
Ultimately I guess it depends on what exercises you do, and I will not do any that compromise my prolapse and healing. My physio hasn't exactly come around to the WW way of things, but she knows where I stand on it and we work together well. I hope that with time she will see the benefits...I guess is it hard for them to undo the four years of training and years of thinking their way.
That's ok, many raindrops make the waterfall....with time ;)
Lindy

mamp

April 30, 2012 - 9:28am

Lindy,
Glad to hear that you have found this thread helpful and hope many others will too. I have bought Christine's book and have both the earlier and later version of the First Aid DVDs, and I must confess I have had some trouble getting my head around this WW posture. I discussed in another thread how I walked around in my back yard with a bag of paper dinner napkins (about 6" tall) on my head and that really helped me to understand about pulling up into the posture. Still, I wasn't clear about how the abs figured in and I couldn't find much discussion on the forum either. Thank you Christine for your helpful comments on this thread and all your wonderful work in this area.

Like Lindy, I also do my Pilates through a place that specializes in customized care and they also stress the importance of having that small space under your back while doing mat work. Surviving, I understand what you are saying about the wide range of exercise options out there and trying to incorporate new information into one's own WW work. In my experience, I have found the staff at my Pilates studio to be very helpful in accommodating to my needs as well as those of other students. While I am an educated professional myself, I have no expertise in bodywork and I find it very useful to have other skilled professionals assist me on this journey using modalities that are compatible with WW.

Monica