Still struggling with seated position and cello

Submitted by MsNightingale on June 1, 2012 - 8:48am
Body: 

Hello Dear Lovely Ladies
Thank you again Christine and all of you. Your care and dedication are a real lifeline in these times. I so appreciate it. I am feeling a bit better now with posture and exercises and I do think it is helping. Standing and walking in WWP are getting quite comfortable....don't even notice a problem some of the time and I am only 10 days or so into the posture. I just wondered about the seated position still. I am able to sit comfortably for short times in cross-legged or on heels or even if the correct position on sofa. However, I am not at all comfortable with cello in seated playing position. I am working on the hip and foot and knee alignment recommended by Christine and Louise but I wanted to know if any of you play the cello who are dealing with this. Also, do any of you feel that it worsens our situation to sit on the vaginal bulge. I am trying at all costs to avoid that but when I have to teach cello I am forced to and then I feel panicked that it will make everything worse. I have stopped my own practice right now hoping to get to a point when I can sit with cello in WWP and not feel it. Until then, do you think it is okay as long as lower belly is relaxed and chest is up? (although it is hard to maintain the relaxed belly when engaged in playing and teaching...hoping that will come). I am not able to wait with figuring this out since it is my only means of income. Thank you so much.

Forum:

wholewomanUK

June 1, 2012 - 3:52pm

Hi MsNightingale,
I'm so pleased you're already feeling the beneift of WW posture and it's so encouraging to hear of positive progress.
I don't play the cello so have no personal experience of playing the cello in WW posture. Anybody out there any knowledge or expereince of this?!
You may find that as you develop muscle strength and flexibility in your body, (WW posture as much as poss. and also if you're able to, a WW dvd yoga/exercise practice are great), it may become easier to play the cello in WW posture. I know there are some things I now do that I found difficult to dao initially. (Such as sit upright for any period of time).
I don't think sitting on the vaginal bulge would be particularly harmful, although it does sound quite uncomfortable and probalby isn't a positive thing. It's a little hard to advise without seeing you. I wonder if you're able to sit towards the front of the chair, knees apart, thighs parrallel to the floor or higher, body in WW posture - and play the cello?! Or - can you stand and if so can you stand in WW posture? I'm wondering about a cello stand perhaps.. Hmm, perhaps I'm getting a bit too much out of the box here. I feel confident there are solutions to this cunundrum.
Calling all cello players!
Good luck and let us know if you find anything that helps.
xwholewomanuk

alemama

June 1, 2012 - 7:07pm

http://islandklassik.com/Catherine%20Jones.html
If she were flat footed she'd be in perfect posture

http://www.fredzavadilwoodcarving.com/carved-sculptures/caricatures/
This image is pretty good, nice strong posture

http://www.scottburdick.com/2009scott22.htm
this painting is a good pic of posture

a few thoughts: maybe you need a smaller scale instrument? Maybe a slight heal on your shoe?
I would think the hip turn out and foot turn out would be the way to go...I think Louise suggested that?

how far off is your posture from these images?

louiseds

June 1, 2012 - 7:52pm

... perhaps a wedge cushion on your seat to tilt your buttocks slightly.

We are looking here at a very specific seating and playing position. I really think some hands on help from one of the teachers would be helpful for you. Lindy is in UK, Carol in Pennsylvania, Paula in New York, I am in Australia. It is a long shot, but is there any possibility?

The other possibility is, do you have any video footage of your playing, on a video site?

Louise

MsNightingale

June 1, 2012 - 8:05pm

Thank you wholewomanuk and also alemama for your thoughts. The position is quite similar actually. I believe the problem is mainly sitting on the bulge area. I will try the lower chair since you suggested thighs being parallel to floor. I love the links alemama and I would say the 1st and last links are close to what I work with, it is just that it is no longer comfortable. I thank you and will continue the dvd's for strength and hope that maybe with little bits of time I can come up with a solution. I will have my cello altered next week so that some of the weight that rests on my chest will actually be spread to the floor (through the use of a different style endpin). Sitting is by far the hardest thing. Thank you both so much.

MsNightingale

June 1, 2012 - 8:14pm

Thank you Louiseds. I have been using a slanted seat but I will look for a wedge cushion as well. I am near Boston and am actually thinking that a trip to NY might be possible. I did see that Paula is in NY. I need to wait another 2+ weeks for the medical diagnosis and then maybe I can arrange an appointment. I appreciate your suggesting this. I am sure that working with a WW teacher would be enormously helpful and inspiring. Thank you again.

louiseds

June 2, 2012 - 1:56am

... what happens with your abdominal muscles when you play your cello. Are you able to let your belly out and brace your abs to enable all your arm movements, and to move your body around as needed. Holding your tummy in will push your bladder and uterus back off the pubic bones, and they will end up over your vagina. Your breathing should produce abdominal movement, rather than chest movement. ie Inhale and let your tummy out. Exhale and your tummy goes back in. Not a lot of chest and shoulder movement with breathing. The belly needs to be free to move.

Another resource, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN-g4XFpTaM . Look at Lynn Farrell's cushions, pushing him forwards. The posture he is recommending for musical reasons is leaning slightly forwards and his back is quite tall and firm. Leaning forwards slightly and keeping your posture tall by raising your chest will tilt your pelvis forwards, and the bulge will move from your vulva, forwards onto the pubic bones, ie you will feel the bulge less. I also noticed the arrangement of cushions under and behind him!

Your ability to extend your spine will increase as you do the exercise component of Wholewoman work. The exercises will also stabilise the base of your spine, your upper body, and around your hips by strengthening all the muscles in your torso and legs. Farrell is obviously very well respected in Celloland. He does stress that the cello needs some strength to play it well.

Do you do any strength and flexibility exercise for your whole body?

I am not an exercise freak by any stretch of the imagination, but having hands on help from Christine at our Trainee Teachers Practicum convinced me that appropriate exercise is as much a part of Wholewoman work as the posture itself. I am hoping to make my own posture better by doing some strength work, particularly around my hips.

Louise

MsNightingale

June 2, 2012 - 10:13am

Thank you again. Yes, Lynn Harrell is very well-respected and the posture is one that we work with. I have always worked for torso over hips, not bending forward, although I will give this a try. Cello posture has always been of great importance. You have hit the nail on the head here. No, I am not able to keep the belly relaxed and breath into the tummy while playing unless that is my only thought. As my attention switches to the music or to teaching, my failure on all counts with the tummy and breathing is apparent. I have been relatively strong....walk 2-3 miles a day, yoga 2xweek and weigts 2xweek. In the last month however, with signs of prolapse, I am only walking (in WWP) and now trying to rotate Christine's dvd's. I am not at all consistent with the posture, maintaining the soft tummy and breathing into it being the difficulty. i am confident that it will come and I am also aware that I need to make a trip to NY to see Paula or to NM to see Christine. Money doesnt allow for that right now but I am going to save for it. I appreciate your thoughts and help enormously.

chickaboom

June 2, 2012 - 10:20am

I am hoping to make my own posture better by doing some strength work, particularly around my hips.

--

Just wondering if you, Christine, other WW teachers had to help a lot of women at the conference fix their WW postures (which they learned from the book or from this forum and thought they were doing correctly)?? Im one year into this thing but I still have moments where I think, yeah this does feel right, but what if Im doing something wrong.

louiseds

June 2, 2012 - 11:29pm

There is probably no hurry MsNightingale. You have the rest of your life to work on this. Yes, breathing technique is core to this work. If you want to get rid of the bulge, then ...

We work on the principle that there are very few tasks that humans do which cannot be done in WW posture, because WW posture *is* our natural posture, but there are so many aspects of it. Mindfulness is one of the major factors. I am sure you now realise that there is much improvement you can make, when you are ready to do it.

Hope you can make it to Albuquerque or New York one day. There will be new teachers coming online over the next few years. Our group was the first group.

L