Has Anyone Actually Healed Their Cystocele?

I'm sure it does happen, especially in younger PP women who are careful and mindful during the healing period. But on the other hand, 'celes move around, and what's not there one day, may be back the next. Personally, I don't monitor mine. - Surviving

Hi naturedoc,
I think it depends on what you mean by healing. What I am realizing is that the physical degree of the prolapse (ie 1st, 2nd etc) can be quite independent of the symptoms that you feel. I don't think my cystocele position has changed since I discovered it but I know that my symptoms can vary hugely, from none at all to feeling quite bulgy or bubbly. So for me I am not so worried about healing as in making it go away, but now I focus on healing as in not feeling it. This has been brought home to me as I have just had vaginal thrush (again) which makes my cystocele feel terrible. Other things that exacerbate it are constipation, stress, dryness i.e. anything where there is inflammation. So to put it in a more positive light if I can avoid those sources of inflammation then I feel as if it is healed, and I am ok with that. Hope this helps!

For me, it stopped being externally visible about 95-99% of the time once I hit 2 years pp and 2 years of cultivating WW methods. But S60 is right - the nature of POP is labile, sometimes without reason. The trick is to know how to get back to your baseline. Definitions of "healing" can vary from woman to woman as well. I don't get annoying symptoms and the cystocele stays tucked away almost 100% of the time. So even though it will never be completely gone, I would consider that to be healed. How do you define it?

Hi again naturedoc,
I think we all have a grief reaction when we find out we have POP. It feels like we will never be the same again, and in some ways we won't. As Surviving60 often says, she is better now than before she discovered her prolapse. And you are so early post-partum, so many things will change in the next months and even up to 2 years. Is it possible for you to forget for the moment about the visible aspects of your POP, especially if you don't have any symptoms? Many women here would love to be in that position. Perhaps just don't look for a while. Enjoy your baby. Learn the posture but try to be patient with it and yourself.

Only five weeks post partum?? Relaaaaaaxx. You will notice your body reverting, sloooowly but surely for the next 2 years. Much healing will occur, even if you do nothing. Your vagina just completed one of the most spectacular feats known of in the animal kingdom. Cut it some slack! Now I say this in the most loving way possible, having once been exactly where you are: get your head out of your fanny and only devote gazing time to your beautiful little baby!! :-)

Having become a registered nurse during my crusade to "win" against POP has given me the beautiful gift of perspective. When you become a doctor, you will see this for yourself as well. You will see people endure things that cause your little old bulge to absolutely fade in significance. Trust me, I know all too well how devastating this situation is for you at the moment. But it really truly does get better physically and mentally. I promise. I work 12 hour shifts, travel, exercise, have great sex, lift my boys, wear fashionable clothes (just not tight), dance, jump, shop, keep house etc etc etc. POP does not inhibit me one iota.

You may want to track my posts/story as well as lovemyboys, alemama, granolamom, & cararosesmum. They will give you good insight, I think.

Best wishes. Two years from now you will look back and wonder why you wasted any time at all worrying about your cystocele!

I guess I'm also coming to terms with the fact that the body just can't be the same post-pregnancy and I really thought it could be so it's a loss in that regard

Yeah, unfortunately I think this is one of those myths that abounds. These subjects are quite taboo, but I think it is more than that. I have asked myself whether I would have listened if someone had tried to tell me about the realities of all of this when I was considering becoming pregnant or when I was pregnant. And honestly I think the answer is no. I was too caught up in my own little bubble of happiness and confidence.

These are some of the reasons I love this forum: the taboos are lifted and I feel so educated about menopause, even before I have got there. I have so much more respect and admiration (and love, yes) for older women.

At least we don't have to spend a lifetime avoiding sharp edges with a 'delicate' (and often circumcised) penis and hairy balls hanging out the front all the time. Sometimes I worry about men and their obsession with barbecuing meat!

(shrugs shoulders)

Louise

I like what Curiosity has said about the myth of the unchanged body after childbirth. It’s something that women are afraid to tell their daughters.

The other night there were some women’s Olympic trials on TV, and I found that I couldn’t watch them. All I could picture was these women, with their coaches and trainers, putting their bodies through all kinds of stresses and strains that were sure to send their organs south…..if not sooner, then later.

The last several generations of women have fought so hard to be on the same footing as men. Women in the military, firefighters, athletes, these women’s bodies are being held to the same standard as men’s, and being asked to perform the same tasks in the same way as men. Is it any wonder that prolapse is epidemic?

So Naturedoc, take care of yourself in all the ways you can, and enjoy that babe. But for heaven’s sake stop looking at your vagina in the mirror. - Surviving

I'm glad you asked this question as I have wondered myself. I am 17 months post-pardum with my first and discovered my prolapse about 2 weeks after his birth. I was depressed for awhile. I felt scared, disfigured, and alone. Until I found this community. Short answer: my prolapse no longer sits like a grape in my vaginal opening. It has moved up a bit so that I don't feel it but I can see it with a mirror. I don't like the way I look so I just don't look. My husband has some basic knowledge of what's going on but I keep him out-of-the-loop because I don't want him to think of my parts differently. And he doesn't. He says that I feel a little looser but that's it (every vagina that's delivered a baby is a little looser). We have a great sex life and it doesn't bother us.
You are 5 weeks out - that's still very early. I was very conscience of my prolapse for the first 4-5 months. It stayed low and I peed all the time. After that, and especially after I found this place a few months later, things really started changing. My prolapse is a little higher, I don't feel it therefore don't think about it, haven't peed myself in months, and don't gave the crazy urge to pee all the time. I breastfeed for 14.5 months and weaning did not affect my prolapse at all. My periods do though. I feel a little heavier right before my cycle but things go back to normal quickly. I can even wear tampons (I do have to lean waaaay over to insert them comfortably. I play with my son, walk a lot, bike, have been hiking, and do just about everything I did before. I don't run unless I playing with kids or my life is in danger so I can't answer that particular question.

Be patient and let your body heal. Start exercise slowly and listen to your body, it will repond if you do too much too fast. I hope this helps.

Hi Everyone, read everybody's posts and comments this morning, I don't see where anyone drinks much water at all, I went to see a naturepathetic doctor at the begginning of the year the first thing she said I had to do was drink a gallon of water a day her theory was dehydration has alot to do with alot of what ails us, I don't know if it's in my head but I do feel better, my skin looks good, I just wish my medical would cover her fees it got pretty expensesive so I had to quit going as I live on a fix income.
I went to see my regular doctor last month all of my blood work was A-okay she was very surprised I see her every three months and she always wanted to put me on all sorts of different drugs for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and everything else that she felt I needed I always tell her no she wanted to know what I was doing, I told about seeing the naturepathetic dr and the other thing I was doing was drinking a gallon of water a day doing deep breathing for 20 minutes before getting out of bed which was the other thing she asked me to do, all she said to was keep doing what I'm doing and she'll see me in three months.
Now I have Christine's bundle and all you wonderful ladies that will help to fix my prolaspe.
Mahalo and much Aloha,
Heavenlyflower

The first time I did nauli with a mirror held where I could see my vagina I was astounded. My celes just up and disappeared. That was the moment that I realized that this prolapse could indeed get better. I thought, ok I can get them up, now how can I keep them up? So I would nauli anytime I could feel that annoying pressure and then pull up into whole woman posture. Minutes turned into hours turned into half days and now I nauli once or twice a day- pretty awesome!
I'm 14 months postpartum now with baby 5 and my anterior wall is back in place! During the pregnancy it got soft and bulgy. It took a while, but things are headed in the right direction. My rectocele is slower- but I know in time it will disappear.

Alemama, you are a constant inspiration!

:-)

Here is one example from Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXv55uDcfmw&feature=relmfu I rather like this channel for its explanation and demonstration of method for both of these moves. Click on the channel name and you will pick up her other videos. If you put 'uddhiyana bhanda' or 'nauli' into the YouTube search box you will bring up her channel, among many others.

Wanting to understand nauli was one of my top ten reasons for deciding I had to get my butt to the Conference come hell or high water! And I am still having issues.

I understand that nauli is done without breathing. You take a few firebreaths, then after the exhale, when navel is pulled to spine, you nauli counterclockwise without breathing. I think this is how Christine demo’d this, someone correct me please if I’m wrong.

This is different from the belly rolls that are done in both directions, because with belly rolls you ARE breathing (same sequence as in firebreathing, you are inhaling when your belly is out in front of you, exhaling when navel is pulled to spine),

Here’s the question: Is the breathing, or not breathing, the principle difference between nauli and belly rolls? Or does the torso actually move around a different axis or in a different plane? Christine explained about pretending there is a clock on your stomach, so I figured out from that which way I was supposed to nauli. I just can’t seem to differentiate that movement from what my torso is doing during a belly roll. - Surviving

Thank you for this link. I realize now that I have only tried half way, thinking that if I don't do it right, I might make things worse. With this link and explanation, it seems more like a wave than a counterclockwise motion or even like the wave motion is moving around as if front to side to back then to other side rather than like the clock on the belly.?. Like Surviving, this might put me over the top too to try to make it to the next conference!

at first

if you can just get the breath lock down first the rest will come to you.

for me, it's inhale through the nose to lock the breath- then the belly pulls in- and last you push out. It's really tricky- but so worth it!

I only learned how to do the breath lock and that was enough to pull everything up and in. Louise described it once and her description clicked and I was up and doing it five minutes later. I just- deep inhale from nose, hold breath, then exhale only half the breath as I bend forward, back straight, tush out, hands grasping upper thighs or knees, and- viola everything is whooshing upwards.

The reason I posted the link to the lady with the pink t-shirt was because she clearly explained the different stages of the two separate manoevres.

To get a clearer understanding of it I think it would be good to get it straight from a Yoga teacher who understands it.

I still have not mastered either of thease yoga moves, though I can firebreathe effectively, which means I probably can do Uddihyama Banda. Nauli still eludes me.

I think it is best to just go with Christine's instructions about nauli as we know it, if using it from POP management, rather than if doing it as serious yoga.

Louise

Hi All,

We are in the process of putting together WWYoga 3, which will be largely a program of firebreathing and nauli. I will show WW firebreathing in all the various positions, plus the two types of nauli I find most effective - with slow, explicit instructions!

You can help us with production costs by preordering the DVD today here at the WholeWomanStore.

Thanks and happy WW firebreathing!

Christine

I believe all postpartum women have some degree of healing given a bit of time, whether they slouch and slump all day or implement WW. The real measure of success IMO in prolapse healing comes from post-menopausal women who are years into the making of prolapse and yet, with some diligence and patience, manage to slowly slowly heal their prolapses. This is one of my favorite success stories, I'm sure there are a lot more from before my time: http://www.wholewoman.com/forum/node/3971.

Thanks Chicka, it's so cool discovering old threads like this. There is such a goldmine of wisdom here.

Hi Naturedoc, I've newly been diagnosed with a cystocele too and am 8 weeks pp. your question about healing a cystocele is one that I've been wondering about too. I too have a fleshy anterior and posterior bulge with rugae which leads from the bottom of my urethra into my vagina. Do you think that's the cystocele or just lax walls? To be honest, I think my cele is above that. Can You feel the smooth Cystocele above that bulge? You're so lucky you are symptom free as I am constantly feeling the bulge.

What I'm saying is that if that's not the cystocele you're feeling, perhaps that's a good thing cos your vaginal walls should tighten back up a the next few months regardless of the cystocele. Any progress so far?

After I had my son 5 1/2 months ago I had a bulge in the front of my vagina. It no longer opened straight up like it had. At my 6 wk apt my uterus was a little low also. So about three months pp I quit breastfeeding and my uterus went back up and the bulge went away... But it came back just a little now, the bulge that is. But I can't tell. The worst thing though, that happened is that like a week after I had him I bent over and felt something strange down below, when I looked, my urethra was hanging down, it looked like it was in my vagina! I freaked out. I went to the dr and he said when I finished breastfeeding things would be back to normal. So I was happy about my uterus and bladder going back, but the urethra stayed low and it has been causing so much pain and burning !!! After my first three kids I was fine, but this fourth one has been hard.

hi babyboyojz,

SO glad to hear your anterior bulge disappeared. Was it ever a cystocele ot just lax walls?I've heard of the urethra dropping with a pop in another forum I frequent and people are wondering the same thing. I've decided to stop bf today due to my low mood from this condition and the fact that I'm not coping well. I will be hoping to see some improvements in the months to come i hope, i hope.

I'm still very confused about lax vaginal walls vs cystocele...anyone have any ideas?

Hi Irishmum and Babyboyojz

There are so many things going on in the postpartum body that it is very difficult to tell what is causing what. It can be a very confusing time, especially if it is your first baby, and if you don't have access to good information.

We find that postpartum POP (pelvic organ prolapse) is at its worst between about 4 and 16 weeks postpartum (PP). We don't know why it doesn't generally show straight away. I contacted the Australian Breastfeeding Association some time ago to find out if there was any scientific evidence of weaning improving pp POP and was told that there was no clinical evidence. We have this discussion every 12 months or so, so it was important to find out an authoritative answer.

Weaning from total breastfeeding straight to artificial feeding with a newborn will bring your oestrogen levels back up to normal again within a couple of weeks, ie it will bring on ovulation, with the accompanying thickening and moistening of the vaginal walls. Having more 'comfortable' vaginal walls means that you will probably feel prolapse symptoms less, but it will not decrease the degree of prolapse.

Babyboyojz, this is probably why your vagina felt better after weaning. Your baby was just a little older than Irishmum's baby is now, when you weaned.

Irishmum, you too will probably find that your vagina feels 'better' if you wean, but the prolapse will still be there. I would suggest that the benefits of continuing to breastfeed your baby will pay off in the longer term, nutritionally and re immune protection for your baby through your breastmilk. I can personally attest to how great it was with a teething baby , who got a lot of comfort just from being at the breast frequently during these very distressing times for the baby.

Babyboyojz, I am sorry that you found that your urethra made a return appearance a few weeks later. This sounds very normal to me, following the normal course of events as described at the top. You won't be like this forever. In another 18 months your body will be completely reverted after the pregnancy. You can help it along with Whole Woman posture, clothing that doesn't compress your belly, and by using your body for lifting and carrying, in ways that don't give you POP symptoms. Having four littlies is hard work. I suggest that you persevere and try to be patient. Give yourself good care too, easy for me to say, but really important to realise that you need it. Go and have a look at the FAQ's and the Resources Tab (for videos and articles), then come back and ask some more questions.

IrishMum I would suggest that you too have a look at the FAQ's and the Resources Tabs. As you are only 2 months postpartum you may still have some lochia, so don't do any firebreathing yet, or bleeding may get heavier. Comments in the previous paragraph about posture and clothing apply to you too. Patience is going to be important for you. We just can't hurry the recovery of our body after a baby, but we can reinforce the recovery by using our body in POP-friendly ways. Come back with more questions when you have done some more reading.

Louise

Irishmum, I spent a lot of time wondering the same thing when I first discovered that something was amiss shortly after giving birth. I didn't want to have prolapse and was looking for other explanations and definitions of what was wrong. After some time I realized that it really did not matter, things changed down there from day to day and what was really important was what I did about it (most importantly, my posture).

But yes, I believe vaginal wall laxity lends to, by default, prolapse. I would also like to add, as other members here have observed, the parous vagina inherently has some degree of laxity and, therefore, prolapse. (Or, as I like to think of it, 'mobility' of the pelvic organs.) I don't think it is possible to have a vaginal birth and retain the tone and firmness of the nulliparous vagina. I am sure my vaginal walls were lax and I had some prolapse after my first two births (in fact i remember noticing the now-much-more-visible-rugae after my first birth and didn't give it another thought) but it was too minor to notice. It took another birth to realize that something had changed down there.

I am about a year and a half postpartum now, my cystocele is truly a non issue for me. I feel so indebted to the work that Christine has done; it has brought me so much awareness to my every movement throughout the day. For this, I'm actually glad to have prolapse!

Thank you so much for your comments and advice. There is a wealth of information here. I will read the faq section and try anything that will help me. I've been trying the ww posture these last few weeks but I have to strengthen my back more. I'm finding it hard not to slouch!

Well can I just ask what your take is on what is happening to me and my bulges? And I don't mean to keep harping on the subject but I'm at a loss and am getting so down that I need some perspective.

Between 3-6 weeks pp I felt an awful tampon like feeling inside. I did a self examination which showed a smooth round bulge on my anterior wall. When i bore down, it bulged out but not much downwards-more so on the right side of my vaginal wall. My OB examined me and said it was a "mild cystocele" I haven't seen a urogynae yet.

2 weeks later (last week), examining myself again, the smooth bulge is gone, rugae have returned in my anterior wall. When I bear down, it still bulges out but not too much downwards. I can still feel a momentary bulge/strain in there when I lift heavy things or laugh or cough, but this sensation is lessening. I have no stress or urge incontinence, just some dribbling after peeing. I seem to have lost my tampon like sensation these days. The whole vaginal wall feels wobbly when I walk but stronger than a few weeks ago. I'm doing Physio and electro stimulation.

I have a smooth rectal bulge too, but it doesn't bother me much and it doesn't bulge much when I bear down, just a little. I've experienced a lifetime of constipation so I guess that has made things worse.

Do you think I'm healing from a cystocele point of view if the bulge at rest is no longer there? Do people with cystoceles always feel a smooth bulge over their anterior wall when they don't bear down? I can't remember what my normal vagina was like Pre-birth. The 2 small half cherry bulges at the entrance of my vagina are still the same.

Thanks for your reply,

Anxious mum!

HI IrishMum

It all sounds pretty good to me. You have a pretty good idea of what is happening. Your vagina is slowly coming back in, but has some week points in the fascia surrounding it. The sensations you experience and what you find when you self-examine may continue to change quite a bit over time. It would be interesting for you to diary it for future reference, so you don't forget what you felt. I would avoid bearing down hard for anything or anyone from now on, including doctors. Yes, you will find that your prolapses will be assessed differently by every person who examines you. That is because your organs and your intestines move around all the time in response to what bits are full and which are empty at time of examination. The pelvic organs are all like bags of jello.

Yes, the posture can be quite hard at first, especially while you are nursing, and kind of in nurture mode. You could nurse with baby on a pillow on your knee, or lying on your side, especially once baby has a bit more head control.

As you get stronger, and your brain figures out what to tell your body to do, it will get easier. I think it is the same idea as learning a new dance step. It takes a while to get into muscle memory, but eventually becomes second nature and is very pleasurable.

Resolving your constipation is likely to be a very valuable step to take. We can help you with that. Avoiding constipation for a new Mum is about removing processed and refined foods from your diet and including lots of fruit and vegetables, along with some protein and whole cereals. Legumes are great for keeping your stools moving, but all foods in moderation especially while you are nursing. You also need plenty of water because your baby is literally milking it out of you, which can exacerbate constipation. I used to get myself an enormous glass or mug of water before I sat down to feed a baby, particularly in the middle of the night. I would get so thirsty!

Hope that claries things a bit.

Louise

Thank you so much Louise for your advice. I have begun to wean breastfeeding as I my bub has never been able to latch and I've been exclusively pumping every 2-3 hrs for the last few weeks. I find it exhausting and after having many discussions with my husband, I've decided to stop. To be honest, i'm not coping too well with the diagnosis and I don't seem to even want to leave my bedroom most of the day. Having to be confined to the house to express and sterilise is compounding the issue and making my depression worse. I think at the end of the day, I need to do what is better for my mental health. I have a loving family and an older toddler to think about and this is just overwhelming me at this point.

I know I shouldn't complain I have it mild compared to some other women on this forum but it's very real to me and I want to start to get better.

If I do make some semblance of recovery from this condition, will it come back to haunt me when I'm menopausal? Do women find that that is the case in many situations? I don't plan on having any more kids.

Irishmum, when you adopt WW posture, it will be for a lifetime. By starting now, you may be better off post-meno than lots of us here, who got such a late start with this work. - Surviving

Hi Irishmum

This diagnosis can really rip your guts out emotionally. I am sorry I cannot give some more meaningful reassurance that your prolapses will get better. Nevertheless, you have decided to wean your baby, and that may be the best for both of you right now. You can only do what you can do. Expressing and then artificially feeding is like feeding two babies, without experiencing the reward of having your baby at the breast. Not very fulfilling, is it? What you have done to date is way more than most women would have done under the same circumstances. Well done!!

Babies who have difficulty latching on are always a big challenge, and you have to be feeling very strong, confident and determined to persevere through the difficulties to a point where they are nursing effortlessly. My third was like this, but I had been working as a volunteer breastfeeding counsellor for several years by then, and I wasn't going to let the little b***** beat me! . I do understand.

OK, now for the question that you ask, so honestly answered by Surviving. Yes, you will always have prolapse but there is no reason why you should experience much in the way of symptoms as long as you manage the things that are likely to worsen prolapse, being sloppy posture, poor diet, poor lifting and carrying techniques, allowing your body to weaken physically and leading a sedentary, c-shaped life.

Postpartum prolapse is in a box of its own, precisely because it often goes away completely after a couple of years. The difference with this postpartum experience and your first is that your body was not already stretched when you had your first pregnancy. This time around it all started out looser because of your previous pregnancy.

When you develop POP later in life it is often the case that there has been some prolapse all along, but the increased sensitivity of the vaginal walls and vulva, along with the thinning of vaginal tissue that happens in perimenopause means that the symptoms are only noticed at perimenopause, and may worsen. Women who develop POP later may or may not have had postpartum POP, and may or may not have had babies.

As you think you are not coping really well now, I suggest that you get some professional help to help you to come to grips with what has happened to you emotionally, and to your body. Even though your body will be much better POP wise in six months' time, this time while your baby is still tiny doesn't have to be like this. Discovering that you have POP can throw you into quite a process of grief in itself. One of the stages of grieving is to try and 'buy back' or 'bargain back' what you have lost. Maybe you are trying to 'bargain back' your body by weaning your baby, which is of course not going to work? I know that nursing is not easy in your situation. I know that your latching on difficulties are very significant. Have a think about this. It is hard to say these things. Please don't be offended.

Best wishes. It's hard, which ever way you go. Take care.

Louise

Hi Louise, you have been very helpful in discussing my problems. I have given the bf thing a lot of thought and I know for sure I am not stopping to "buy back my body". It's just too much for me to cope with at the moment and I don't need that additional stress. I have been house bound for the last few weeks. Initially because my baby couldn't latch and was feeding all day but not getting milk despite countless lactation consultations, then because I needed to build up my supply by pumping 2 hourly, and now because I'm making excuses not to go out and do normal things that mums do. I'm hiding behind the excuse of not wanting to go out cos I can't, as I need to express regularly. I get absolutely no enjoyment out of expressing and feeding her. I'm no novice to express breastfeeding as my first couldn't latch too and I expressed for 5 months before i went back to work. This time round, I'm just not coping well enough to do it. I am at peace with my decision.

I have sought some professional help and I know what I need to do to pull myself together. I am quite an insightful and psychologically minded person but putting my intentions into action is what I'm finding tough.

FYI my first child was born by CS so this is my first and last VBaC.

Once again, I thank you for taking the time to write me long, meaningful and insightful replies. What you give to this community is invaluable. I hope to be able to post a success story sometime. In the meantime, there is much work to be done!

I didn't realise you were so experienced with all this. Good decision. Jeez, picking up the phone is so hard in this situation, isn't it? Why do we make it so hard for ourselves? I had the same experience a few weeks ago.

"Dammit hand, just pick up the frigging phone!"

"I can't. I can't. (sniffle, sniffle)"

"Put hand out. Touch phone. Wrap fingers around it. Pick it up. Dial. Wait. Speak. How hard is that?"

"O, alright."

Sigh.

;-)