questions re: lubricants & exercise

I cannot answer your lubricant questions with any experience but it almost seems to me that honey might be better for the actual pessary than the chemical lubricants...but I am sure you will hear from women who have that experience. As for the exercise, this is my thought. If you are more comfortable with the pessary, I cannot see how that would lessen the actual benefit of work being done. As I understand it, we are working on the strengthening and gentle stretching of so many layers of muscles and ligaments that if you feel more comfortable with the pessary that shouldn't take away from benefits. The more I read Christine's book, the more I realize how that whole pelvic area is connected with all areas of our body helping out, if we make them stronger in the right way. Maybe over more time when you feel strong and mindful with the exercises, you can give it a try without the pessary. I do know that in my short three months here, and of doing the exercises, I have become more comfortable (pop-wise and whole body wise). I send you right back that love, light and best wishes.

Hi ananda – Not a pessary user either. I think that the estrogen creams are prescribed not only for lubrication but because estrogen is supposed to build up the tissues so that pessary use is more comfortable. I’m not sure that’s a good thing; if I were you I’d forego the estrogen. But we might need to hear from someone else on this topic. I can’t imagine those natural substances would be harmful to the pessary. Especially if you plan to take it out regularly and clean it.

If I remember correctly, you have a fairly significant uterine prolapse. I’m sure it’s fine to exercise with the pessary in, but in doing so, you don’t have the benefit of the feedback you would get without it. You might want to try it both ways. If your pessary masks your symptoms, will you remember to guard your lumbar curvature throughout your day? - Surviving

Lubrication for a pessary would be for the purpose of making the pelvic area comfortable, and perhaps ease in its insertion and withdrawal. Our bodies naturally lubricate the vulva and pelvic area so when putting a foreign object in there, it seems a reasonable proposition that you would need more lubricant, because of the drying out factor it imposes and also to stop any abrasiveness caused by rubbing. That added to the fact of being post menopausal and a bit drier.

Just what would prove the most successful lubricant is probably something hard for the women on this site to answer as not too many of them wear pessaries. But we certainly do not discourage anyone who can. I don’t think anyone here could answer for sure whether honey or bliss balm would degrade your pessary. That would be one to ask the manufacturer. Why not drop them a line? And as to whether these substances would be sufficient lubrication for the wearing of a pessary, that is another question too which perhaps only you will be able to answer.

As for posture and prolapse safe exercise the best thing is to just get started. Having a pessary should not make too much difference as long as the prolapsed organ is now in its right place. And if you are comfortable then I think we can assume that. In fact, a lot of difficulty in starting exercises is being comfortable with the particular prolapse you have. If the prolapse is hanging too low it will get in your way and cause its accompanying discomfort while you exercise and this can be off-putting. So I would be making the most of your opportunity in successfully wearing a pessary to get started on posture and exercise. Bearing in mind any limitations in movement that your doctor may have mentioned, and your body's response.

Who knows one day you may be able to throw it away as we do in many cases a walking stick after a broken leg. If that does not prove the case most importantly you are comfortable.

Yes, as Surviving says, you have to keep up the battle of the lumbar curve regardless. Be single minded about that.

Best wishes, Fab

I am so thankful for having found Christine, her wonderful website and all the ladies that have contributed questions, answers and comments. I have been glued to this site for days, taking in all the information. I have prolapse of the bladder and uterus. For the first 5 years, I ignored it, learning from a friend who had multiple surgeries, and for the last 2 years or so, I had a large ring pessary. About 2 months ago, after a lot of heavy lifting and doing more walking than I normally do, I bled for about a week, not a lot but enough to scare me. I found out that the pessary did a lot of damage so it is out as I heal. I was told to use premarin every 4th night to help repair but I found it was causing night sweats which I did not have through menopause so I quit using it.

I ordered the books and DVDs but it might take a couple of weeks for them to reach me. Ananda, and anyone else who has had experience with doing the exercises while using a pessary, can you tell me if you have had any negative experiences with the pessary in? The gyno suggested I might do well with a cube pessary which has to be removed every night but after learning what I did from Christine and this site I am starting to think I might be better without a pessary. I am working on the WW posture now and look forward to the book and DVDs. Ananda, if you still check this site, can you tell me how you are doing, please? I would also appeciate advice from anyone who reads this...and many, many thanks in advance!

Hi Osmari and welcome. I don't know if or when Ananda will see this post, as she has not commented in several months. We don't have a lot of pessary users here (some), so I'll respond to your post for the time being. If you feel that the pessary was causing damage, I'm not sure it's a good idea to go back to it. Pessaries can provide support and comfort to some women in some cases, but as you get more and more into the habit of WW posture you might try going without. Our symptoms are probably the most important feedback we get. If you forget or neglect lumbar curvature because the pessary is holding everything up, you aren't helping yourself much. Christine's exercises are designed around organ support, so definitely give them a try without pessary. Good luck and please report back - Surviving

Thank you Surviving60 for your response. I have read of lot of your past postings and have developed a deep respect for you. You stated that you don't have a lot of pessary users on this site...do you know if some non-users had them in the past and then like me, felt they would be better off without? My bulge usually hangs onto the panties and that concerns me. The friend I alluded to in the post above, developed a blister so that concerns me as well. Any suggestions? Let me repeat....I am SO thankful to Christine, this site and the wonderful ladies such as yourself!

.....will definitely be the goal as you start this WW work. There are lots of ladies here who are in that situation, whereas I have multiple 'celes that keep my cervix tucked in pretty well. But the work we do is the same regardless of prolapse type. If the pessary is feeling comfortable as you start out this work, by all means wear it. But do form a picture in your mind of where you are trying to get the organs to go, and make sure the pessary is not interfering. I really know nothing about them. My most pronounced prolapse is a rectocele; pessaries don't help much there, and can worsen things. Good luck to you! - Surviving

Ditto, Osmari. I had to use it, or something similar, for a week prior to a PAP smear. Never again. I started getting daytime sweats, which I had never experienced before. They say it only acts locally, and doesn't get into your system. What a load of bunkum!

I would get the First Aid for Prolapse DVD, and throw myself into learning the posture, clean up your diet, and learn ways of using your body that will minimise your symptoms. My prolapses are all tucked safely away now, and postmenopause, my vulva is no longer gaping open. Keeping your pubic hair longer, rather than shorter, if applicable, may help cushion the abrasion with your panties. If all else fails, try going without panties. In the meantime, change them frequently, so you don't get bacterial contamination from your anus to panties, and then on to your urethra, where bacteria can cause urinary tract infections. Also take a look at the design of your panties. If the crotch moves backwards and forwards with sitting to standing it might help to wear a different style that keep the crotch where it started off.

Louise

Osmari, when I began WW exercises a couple of years ago, I used my then new pessary while exercising. I felt "safer" with it in. The exercises helped especially my hips, knees, and ankles for strength, flexibility and balance. I'm thinking that I noticed more difference there than in my POP (cystocele mostly) and that may be because of exercising with the pessary. I can't say for sure because I lapsed and became dependent on the pessary. After using it for a couple of years, I am more 'stretched' and now have returned realizing that I must do the WW 'thing' with a full commitment. I don't want to go to a larger pessary. I won't have surgery. WW is the only reasonable and hopeful option I've found. I haven't used my pessary at all in three weeks. Some days are worse than others, but it's all tolerable so far. When spring comes and I get the plow out, I will probably be using my pessary some. Otherwise, I hope to keep working on posture and exercise without it.

One question for you experienced "nature" ladies is - what is the problem with using a lubricant jelly like KY jelly? I'm thinking it must be bad for my vagina - since the GYN who prescribed it for me said to use it. It hasn't caused me any problems that I noticed, so what might be the hidden effect? Maybe it won't be so bad since I'll only use it occasionally? Is olive oil usable for this purpose?

Also, I constantly wear panti-liners. I change often during the day. I admit when the weather is hot they might make the 'local environment' more conducive to yeast and fungus. Changing often helps keep them dry. Is there a reason not to use these that I may not have thought of?

Sorry, Osmari....more questions than answers. Nice to meet you.

I think we have some K-Y users here. I can't recall hearing anything bad about it, but maybe take a look at the ingredients and see what you think. Natural stuff is always going to be preferable to chemicals. Olive oil or coconut oil, if pure, might be safer.

I always cringe when someone trots out the advice to go without panties. I guess I have some issues that others don't, as I also wear liners daily and could not be without. Occasionally on the weekend when not going anywhere, I'll go without a liner. I have all cotton undies and it does feel good. So I would say, just continue to change them often and do skip them on occasion if you can.

Others have different opinions on all this stuff, and I hope they will chime in! - Surviving

Thanks for answering, Surviving 60. I know what you mean. Love my white cotton panties and pantiliners. I even feel naked now without the liners! It helps if I leave them off at night. I've been hesitant to try the olive oil because it's oily. The jelly lubricant is so easy to wash off. But I bought a sponge and haven't tried it. I think I'll try it with olive oil.

Ladies, thank you so much for your replies!

LOUISE, you said you are now "tucked safely away"...were you hanging out into the panties like I am now? I am 69, is there hope that if I go without a pessary, continue to practice WW posture (which I started about 2 weeks ago), do the exercises once the DVDs get to me, that I also might in a year or so be "tucked in"? And yes, for years, I change my panties several times a day for the reasons you stated. I prefer silk panties to cotton (although I have both), because on hot days they are much better. They are more expensive but for health benefits, I prefer to pay the price for the panties than to "pay the price" of having surgery!! Pun intended.

BEBE, I understand what you mean when you say "some days are worse than others"....I have not had a pessary for almost 2 months. The gyno suggested I wear a tampon during the day "to keep things in"....I did that for a few weeks but since I am dry inside, it felt as if some of the fibers were left in me. I did an internet search which scared me so since then I sometimes wear a tampon when I go away for several hours or I have one handy in my purse ready for use in case I am uncomfortable.

SURVIVING, I was "hanging down" even with the large ring pessary and thought of wearing panty liners but like many on this site, I prefer the natural way and thought of the bleach in the liners so I did not use them as I thought the bleach would be touching my prolapsed parts. (Then I was told to insert a tampon which I did! Likely worse!!) In addition, I thought I would be defeating the purpose of wearing cotton or silk undies (which 'breathe" as the saying goes).

Ladies, since I am kind of new to all this info and site, and since the books and DVDs are not here yet, can you tell me if I should be putting olive oil on the part that is hanging into my panties so I am not drying out when standing or walking? To be honest, it scares me a bit because I have chemical allergies and don't want more problems than I have now!

Once again, I cannot thank you enough for your knowledge. Isn't this site great!!??

Hello Ozmai

I have the uterus hanging down. I use a thin panty liner. I use it more for psychological protection, a security thing mostly. Also, when dry I lubricate with coconut oil or Vaseline depending on availability and wearing the liner protects my underpants. I wear cotton underpants that are a size too big. That way my pants do not touch my uterus or at the least there is some air ventilation, except when I sit down, and when I sit my uterus retracts inside. And when I sit I do so wide legged when possible and again ventilation is allowed.

One thing in your post I did not follow. Your uterus/bladder hung down when you were wearing your ring pessary, but you were advised to wear a tampon to keep things in. Did it work? A tampon even inserted sideways which ‘Me,myself and I‘ found to be a successful tactic did not work for me. I cannot keep it in. And yes I would think it would have to be lubricated well before insertion if you were to pursue that with many changes throughout the day.

Cheers, Fab

How pleased I am to be addressed in company with Surviving60 and Louiseds. Fab, you chimed in as I was logging on and you'll appreciate this. Congratulations, Osmari, on being able to keep a tampon in!
Since I can't hold onto one, I'm doubting the sponge will stay - but I'm going to try it.

Bleach! Yikes, I hadn't thought of that. Well, I do bleach my white undies but I use an extra rinse cycle. Maybe I'll try to wean off the pantiliners. I started using them for two reasons - leaking when coughing and extra moisture with pessary lubrication. So I ought to be able to go without them more now. I haven't had too much trouble with dryness yet and I think maybe it's the soy flavonoids and herbs I take.

I'm remembering seeing all my old aunts sitting on benches at family reunions the way I sit now - as fab described. They're all gone now or I would castigate them for not warning me and telling me why. When one said, "Girls, stand up straight and keep your shoulders back and one day you'll have a fine bosom like mine," I thought uh oh. Apparently she hadn't noticed the effect gravity had had on her.

Yes, Osmari, this forum is great!

Well, you just answered my next question Fab. After years of tampons sliding out of me, I wondered if I could put one in sideways instead. Guess not. Think I will stick to keeping things out of my vagina, except my cervix, of course. I was starting to get really nervous, because I twisted my knee and couldn't do my exercise and it was difficult to concentrate on posture even. That lasted about two weeks, but now I am back at it again; and feeling better.
My worry is that we are going on vacation in a few weeks to Oregon to visit my son and his girl. They want to take us hiking, and I worry that my old girl is going to start peeping out as I lunge over a rock or log or something. This frustrates me. I feel too young yet to have this!!
Yes, as long as I do posture and the exercises and lovely firebreathing, I can keep her up away from the opening, but one little setback has her peeping out again.
Sorry, I turnd this into my whiney show!

Firstly, thanks for your info.
Fab, you did not follow my note about the ring pessary for good reason. At first, the ring kept everything in but later, I started hanging out to one side. I knew I had the biggest in the ring type and was terrified the dr might suggest surgery, (I stated at the first visit that I definitely did not want surgery), so being afraid of the next step, I put up with it since I did not hang as low as without it. Unfortunately, with the heavy lifting etc, it did damage. I should have told her months before!

Now about the tampon...it is interesting about the person putting it in sideways because it seems to go to the right when I insert mine. I was told to get the biggest. Since it has been years since I needed them, I was surprised at all the choices there are now! I bought "super plus" size, which I understand is the biggest...then I bought just "super" size. and also "normal", all without perfume, of course. The only one that stays in is "super plus".

I have to bend forward quite far in order for the prolapse to move inside me before I insert the tampon and as I said, it seems to slip in to the right. I find the tampons in the plastic slip in much easier than the ones in cardboard.

Aging gracefully, don't worry about turning this into a "whiney show"....we all have tough times but we have to keep trying. Anything is better than surgery.

for the clarification and detailed description on the type of tampon and its insertion. This thoughtfulness helps everyone. Yes, lifting things can be perilous what we find okay one day can cause us to pull a muscle the next. Once we have prolapse we quickly become good at planning how to approach certain tasks. We can regret we did not take a similar degree of thought before. However, I tend to think even if we did there is always that time when we are in a rush or thinking about something else, or interrupted and not watching what we are doing and there is always those dare devil days when we just get impatient; that’s all it takes. We are never going to avoid that: that’s why they are called accidents.

This leaning more to one side is interesting (with the pessary) because I find my uterus hangs slightly lower on my right. I guess I have always thought that the ligament on that side was more extended. Or, else something was pushing harder on the uterus on that side. I am fairly sure it was like that before I broke my hip so tend to think that has nothing to do with it. Do you have any thoughts on it?

cheers Fab

You are in a bit of a pickle. The walking will be good, the climbing over rocks or fallen logs or just sudden changes in direction or rough ground can be your undoing. Look, I suggest you just try your best, but if things come down just do what you can to bring them back up when you can get the chance.
One really good method is to when resting concentrate on the diaphragm breathing. When you are sitting comfortably in WWposture, put your two hands just three finger widths below your navel. Breathe in through your nose and let your lower tummy come out, then breathe out through your nose and empty your lungs completely instead of the usual forty per cent. Do this for however long you have, five or ten minutes. Do this at every rest possibility and you should find your prolapse reversing back up. We all know that relaxation is the answer, this is one powerful relaxation. It is not just diaphragm breathing, but it is exercising the Dan Tien which the Chinese believe is more important than the brain which to us is very strange, but consciously relaxing in this way increases your energy and I personally find remedial to the prolpase. The Dan Tien is about three finger widths below the navel and i inch deep in.

cheers, FAb

You asked if I had any thoughts on the leaning to the right...sorry, like you I thought something was likely pushing to make it lean that way.......I guess we need to find a book to show the total design of our insides at all angles!!

I am sorry to hear you also have (or had) a broken hip....prolapse is tough enough without the additional burden of a broken hip! All the best to you!

Thanks ladies,
As always, you are great!!

Hi Osmari, I think you have a very good, commonsense approach to all this. You seem to be taking responsibility yourself for judging what will help and what won't.

I have used KY, but I find that it dries out after a while. I prefer an oil/wax type lubricant, but panties seem to need a good hot wash to get the oiliness out of them. Some women like Sylk, which is made out of Kiwifruit. I have also heard women talk about aloe vera. The other good think about oils is that they stop pubic hair sticking to your panties! ;-)