Sea Sponges for Prolapse in "Dry" Postmenopausal Women?

Hi veezvee,
I wonder if putting some honey on a sea sponge might be both lubricating and healing. Anyone else any thoughts about this?

Also - I'm not sure whether you are new to the WW approach or have been following the WW way for a while. If the latter, please forgive me for suggesting some WW basics.

One of the main keys to this work is WW posture & exercise, as explained in the book and dvd's. This encourages the levic organs into optimal pelvic organ support and reduces symptoms. You may also find that in WW posture there is less need for a pessary for that reason.

Wishing you all the bes, wholewomanukx

Hi Veezvee,
I purchased the sponges but found it impossible to insert them. They did send some cream with them that had supposed to help with the insertion but for me that didn't help either. I tried putting it in a small thin plastic bag first, that helped but then I couldn't get the bag out without it pulling the sponge out too. I then tried cutting it down a little but still didn't work for me, I wished it had. I am in my 70s. Good Luck if you decide to go that route.
Daphne

I am two years post menopausal and have been able to use the sponge by getting it as small as I possibly can and using lubrication (coconut oil or olive oil). I also drink oat straw daily to help with dryness there. Additionally, I massage my vagina daily with castor oil. My masseuse just told me how to do steam baths for the vagina that sounds really comforting. Oat straw or marshmallow (mucilageous for more moisture), rose petals can be put into hot water and a chair with a hole in it is needed. Basically it's the same idea as steaming your face, instead it sends warm, healing, comforting steam to help the vagina tissues to heal and be comforted. I'm going to try it! Gotta find a chair with a hole in it!

Hi Veezvee,
I had tried several Drs. to fit me with pessaries but they all made me urinate continually so I read on here that several people had tried the sponges and liked them so I guess it is a matter of what you can manage the best.
Daphne

I don't think douching is a good idea, just for its own sake. I prefer to think that the (menopausal) vagina is better left to its own devices where possible. It will attempt to deal with whatever you put in it, so douching is just another disturbance. Then it has to adjust to the douche as well!

I have recently been reading about the skin's acid mantle. This mantle, made up from sweat and oil from the skin, keeps the skin at a particular pH level. This varies according to the part of the body where it is measured. When we get very alkaline substances on our skin, like laundry detergent, this disturbs the acid mantle, and it takea a while for the skin to reestablish the acid mantle again. Ordinary bath soap is not nearly as aklaline as laundry detergent, so it isn't such a problem. Even rinsing in plain water will disturb this mantle and it takes time to reestablish it.

I see no reason why the vaginal walls should be any different. The post-menopausal vagina does not have the epithelial 'maturation' of the reproductive vagina, which leaves it vulnerable to trauma, whether that be physical, such as a sponge or pessary, or even a finger bearing honey, or a poorly lubricated penis at low arousal level, or chemical, being the delivery of water or a herbal or pharmaceutical douche. It is a balancing act between the good and the bad. Putting honey in your vagina may irritate briefly, before it does its work. The same with a diluted vinegar douche.

I don't think it is as much of a problem once menopausal transition is complete, when the new, post-menopause, continuously high FSH and LH, and low oestrogen and progesterone levels are established! I know my genital area is much less prone to UTI's, thrush and irritation, now I am almost post menopause. But I have not had penetrative sex for some time, so there is no sexual trauma either. It is a bit hard to know how much of a role penetrative sex has in vaginal irritation. I know that semen is generally alkaline. This is fine in the reproductive years, when the reproductive vagina is capable of quickly blancing it again, but he postmenopause vagina tends to alkaline under the influence of continuous high LH, so there is no intrinsic buffering effect.

If you want to douche, I would suggest using diluted good quality cider vinegar. Then follow it up half an hour or so later with a tiny dob of raw honey, either from a syringe, or a finger, delivered high in the vagina. I would suggest that using a syringe which has had the sharp edges sanded off the little tube, Might be a less messy process than using a finger. You can just rinse the syringe afterwards and store it in a ziplock bag in the bathroom cupboard until next time. However, a finger is infinitely softer on your vaginal tissues.

Louise

Here's a little oddity I noticed recently. I haven't douched regularly for years - haven't needed to. The last couple of years I've been using a pessary fairly often with a jelly lubricant, but I stopped using it several weeks ago. Since then, after sex I've noticed more of a need to douche (some unpleasant discharge). One diluted vinegar douche straightened it up. I had also been having some irritation and read about using vinegar for that, so it was a good way to try it out....to see if it would sting. It did sting a little, but I found it to be helpful externally too. I'm thinking the lubricant with the pessary was helping with keeping me clean.

HI Bebe

Yes, most of the lubricants for use with pessaries are slightly acidic for that reason. Some, eg Trimosan have substances in them that are banned for use on dairy cows, but for some reason are still legal for use on women. Go figure. I would be checking the label on the lubricant. If it just KY or something bland like that, it is not likely to have an acidifying effects.

The menopausal vagina becomes alkaline. Semen is also alkaline, so it could be that making an environment that is less friendly for the good lactobacilli in your vagina, allowing other bacteria to grow in their absence, making the discharge smelly. You can also put a tiny dob of honey in your vagina, half an hour after the vinegar. This feeds the lactobacilli.

So, vinegar, with a honey chaser might become the post coital dressing of choice!

Louise

pee ewwww....Ive had my pessary in for almost 3 months now and if anyone out there has an issue with a horrible stench...water/vinegar douche once a day does the trick!!!!

any other suggestions would be most helpful. Ive tried Trimosan...doesnt help at all.

I can't imagine leaving something in my body for all that time. Suggest regular removal for cleaning and to let the tissues breathe, not to mention some serious Whole Woman posture work so that you can go without sometimes. That being said, if you're going to douche, vinegar is a good choice. - Surviving

thank you Surviving.... yes the Dr. told me I have to go back every 3 months to have it removed and cleaned...which is this Wednesday. Im gonna ask him to teach me how to do it myself so as I can remove it more often. I have a severe uterine prolapse from have 3 big babies, 50 yrs old and the cervix was actually sticking out before the pessary. Tell me more about this posture???

This whole site is about WWposture, please read around. The basic theory behind it as developed by Christine Kent is that the loss of our lumbar curve means our pelvic organs fall back and down the vaginal canal. Retrieval of the pelvic organs to their true position above and over the pelvic bone requires the retrieval of the lumbar curve and the regained strength of our postural muscles and skeleton. Welcome to the site.

Veezee, I would like to put a big asterisk next to this last post of yours. You really have your head around the sponge thing. This is non-surgical management of pelvic organ prolapse at its best. You have experimented and analysed, then worked out what works for you, and when. Well done. The improvement won't stop here. Just keep going try, analyse, adjust. Will you ever get to the point where you don't need the sponge? Maybe. Maybe not. But you will know.

I'm having difficulty inserting my sponge. Could someone help me? Is there a better position to insert rather than standing? How large should this sponge be prior to insertion... approximately. I'm thinking it should be about half the size they sent me???? Should I squash it length-wise and insert or just try to smash it up into my vagina? I wet a regular tampon to compare sizes and of course the tampon is so much smaller than the sponge! I didn't receive any cream with my sponges but I do have some raw coconut oil and I have some olive oil too. Any advice would be most appreciated!

Somewhere I found a post that described how to cut and thread a sponge and more. I wish I could remember more...I would repeat it or find it for you. There are a lot of references to sponges to search through. I tried a sponge and didn't like it so I don't have enough experience with it to help. I inserted mine like I did my pessary, but it's easier to do than to describe. I do think you'll be okay with the oils you have (I'd prefer olive) or a gel lubricant if you have it on hand -- at least to try it out. Good luck. I've enjoyed reading your posts.

Here, try this one:

https://wholewoman.com/forum/node/4303

That is a very thorough post by Grandma Joy about the sponges...JUST WHAT I NEEDED TO KNOW!
I'll keep trying. I'm having a good day today and don't want to disrupt my positive flow. Surviving, I heeded your advice and I got up this morning, met my grower, purchased some plants for my gardens and worked all day without any trouble at all. Well, actually, I did get a bit tired in the pelvis region but no backache, no bulging sensation in my vagina that was uncomfortable. One thing I'm doing is really watching how much I eat and I've not had any refined carbs or sugars. I keep my meals very small. I've even given up coffee for the most part which is truly miracle...and not a single headache!

That is fantastic Gillian! I need to follow your food advice. That is my downfall. That's why I have to be such a fanatic about the other stuff......I have huge failings in that area to make up for! - Surviving

if I can! I'm not going to be so hard on myself when I cheat but you and I both know that when we do, we are the ones who pay dearly. I have the worst sugar cravings in the afternoon and I know it's all due to disrupted hormones, stress and other chemical imbalances associated with menopause. I'm taking Krill oil every day and my whole food vitamins ( I'm using Alive by Nature's Way). My afternoon sugar fix is a small glass of organic cranberry cocktail mixed with 50 percent water and that's it. That's just enough sugar to satisfy my craving and plus, I save money by mixing it with the water!

All the women in my family have had a pooch at our lower abdomen for many generations. One time a boyfriend told me he thought it was sexy. Yeah, that was when I was 119 lbs but if he saw my pooch today he would run for the hills! Upon menopause, I think the meno-elves had a party one night and rearranged all the fat on my body by placing it on my lower tummy and upper armsI It was as if I woke up one day with an entirely different body! hate this pooch and I know it contributes to a large amount of weight on my pelvic organs. I've got no other choice than to make every attempt to reduce its size. I know that if I can get my weight down in that area, it will make a huge difference in my prolapse.

Well, that's me you're describing, with the belly and the afternoon cravings. Actually, if memory serves, I had a relatively flat belly until age 30 when I had a ruptured appendix. Lots of lumpy scars from that, and I think that was the beginning of my muscles throwing in the towel (I still have a "dead" spot in that area where I guess there was some minor nerve damage). This was followed by two pregnancies, two large babies, questionable food choices, and finally, menopause. I stayed in half-decent shape throughout all this due exercise (lots of the wrong kind, sucking and tucking for decades!). Oh, to be young again and get a "do-over" on some of this stuff!! Thanks for the encouragement. - Surviving

I cannot wear a pessary because it caused me to leak urine continually. The dr explained it was because my tube was kinked and the pessary took out the kink causing me not to be able to shut off the flow of urine. Does anyone know if a sponge would cause the same thing to happen? Thanks.

I've read that sponges can have the same effect on the ureter that rings can but I'm sure it depends on each woman's sitution and anatomy.

My doctor once told me that he could not believe how strong my stomach muscles were and how flat my tummy was. I had a laparoscopy done when I was 28 and that's when the pooch really developed. I have often wondered if that surgery didn't destroy my muscle tone. It really ticks me off to think that is what happened because I really didn't need that surgery! ..unlike your ruptured appendix! Even so, it's all so frustrating to be living this outcome.

Pooch. I just started a new topic in Bodywork.

Sponges. Yes, I would think sponges may also unkink the urethra, but a sponge is soft, unlike a pessary, so it may produce bulk where it is needed, but not the point pressure. Hey, sponges are pretty cheap. Why not try it? You'll never really know until you do. Just ensure that you use a sponge which is suitable and lube it up well.

Louise

I am interested to hear Veezee is doing well with these sea sponges and would like to try them,I have had a bad cough this last month so am not feeling so comfortable, can someone tell me were I buy them please? do I google sea sponges. Thanks.

I also have a urethra prolapse and wonder if the sponge would work for that and could I get them in the uk . Do they come with instructions? and would it be easy to remove and wash at night.

We do have a few sponge users here, not too many. You can always use the search box up above to look for discussions. Try the Jade and Pearl website. - Surviving

I have a prolapsed bladder, but when I went to the Dr he did not grade it, but said it was coming from the side of my vaginal canal and also told me not to do kegels and that nothing would help. Since the entire thing was such a shock to find and I had never heard of prolapse I didn't know what to ask. A week or so later I had all kinds of questions...but I don't have insurance so can't go running back.

I am 63 and had a hysterectomy 20 years ago due to a grapefruit size fibroid growth that was not coming out any other way.

I ordered the Sea Sponges and tried inserting the smaller one today. It was too big so I trimmed it down, used the shea butter and tried again. I finally got it in, but probably not well enough as I could feel a little sticking out. Absolutely could not sit with the sponge as it felt very irritating. Took it out, felt very irritating and now am wondering how I am going to clean all that thick shea butter off of the sponge? I am hoping the sponge will work, but definitely need a different type of lubricant and I guess cut the sponge down even more.

Very unhappy, as I am sure most women are when they develop a prolapse. I can't stand very long, I can't go walking anymore without feeling like it's going to slip all the way out. Right now it is a fairly large bulge that comes out of my vagina, but not all the way out.

What I don't understand is why there is not surgery that will work for this? The mesh is obviously not good, so why can't they come up with something else? In this day and age and with so many women dealing with this..you would thing modern medicine would be better for this area.

I have the DVD's, but for the life of me I still can't figure out how the posture should be for standing or sitting. I am at a loss for everything right now and now I need to go see how to get all that shea butter off of the sponge! :)

Dear Beachrobin,
Walking in Whole woman Posture,
lower belly relaxed, chest lifted up,
natural lower back spinal curve in place,
head lifted as if balancing a book with chin tucked back slightly,
shoulders down not back, & upper back flat.
Walk with feet straight pointing frontwards.
Don't lock knees by straightening legs too much.
When you walk like this you are exercising the abdominal muscles which are lengthened & close in the middle like a lift door, to the middle of your tummy, and down. Your pelvic organs are positioned in the relaxed lower belly & protected by the pubic bone. Any ab exercise that pulls your them in like belly button to spine has the effect of pulling your pelvic organs back & down. These exercises are for men. Planks will do the same - we are not meant to have the flat 6pack, rather a gentle feminine curve & graceful stance.
Someone else may explain the sitting posture as I am not clear on how to explain it.
(((hugs))) & Best Wishes
Aussie Soul Sister

Thank you :) I printed that out and it explains it so much better to me. I would imagine sitting would be pretty much the same as far as the torso portions.