Need advice, please help

Hi again budahazya. I’m so sorry to hear that you are still struggling. You have posted here a number of times and gotten lots of helpful answers from women who are managing rectocele (and in most cases, other prolapsed organs as well). Doing the Whole Woman work requires a great commitment and maybe this is difficult for you, with your current stresses and not having the book or any video to help you understand all the concepts and figure out how to work them into your life. A rectocele need not cause this degree of hopelessness….so I am wondering if you need to consider the depression itself as being the biggest problem to overcome before you can teach yourself prolapse management. Please click on your account and go back to re-read what we have written to you before. There may be something there that you have overlooked. You may consider your rectocele as the source of your depression, but there is quite a bit in your writings that indicates the depression may be the culprit getting in the way of you going forward with the WW work. Please keep us posted. - Surviving

I don't have a rectocele, but a urethracystocele and I know your fears. When I realized, that there's something wrong and my Doc told me, that I have POP, I was scared and depressed. Perhaps you can try to do something against your fear first. For example you could take Pulsatilla D6 or Bachflowers Sweet Chestnut.
Another possibility for you maybe is to buy the sea sponges or any other kind of pessary, because you've got a lot of stress with your children. It could give you some stability.
Good luck for you!
Butterfly

Butterfly, I'm jumping in here just to point out that sponges and pessaries are not a good choice for rectocele. They don't stay put very well, and can actually make the rectocele worse. - Surviving

Yes, Surviving is right suicidal thoughts are a danger sign that your depression is deepening. You really need to seek help here. You need to phone a counsellor and talk it over with him/her. They may very well suggest you take some prescription drugs in the interim to tide you over. Louise would be able to tell you about cognitive therapy which helps you correct this type of thinking when you are symptomatic. Depression is not a failure, it is a sign that you are finding things are getting out of control. Most of us can cope 99.9% of the time but every once in a while we need help, please seek it out.
As to the worrying that your rectocele will worsen, this is a natural reaction to have. Fearing the worst as you describe is the power of the mind to force you to take action. However we need to rein in too vivid imaginings of the worse or the thoughts incapacitate us to do anything other than worry. So if you can knock those thoughts aside when you wake in the morning. Tell yourself you will think about that later, but for the now you have an action plan to manage your rectocele that you need to concentrate upon. And if you take some actions as you are seeking out here in this forum then there is a good likelihood that you can begin to manage the rectocele better. Can you work out why it is worsening? Are you having to do heavy lifting? Are you eating poorly? Are you constipated and so have to strain? Or, rather are your stools too sticky and hard to move? Is it impossible for you to defecate with your weight on your legs and leaning forward? Have you been able to find some gentle salve to apply to your vagina and anus? Are you getting enough rest?
If some of these things are impossible for you to do or not to do, then we need to find ways around them to compensate.
Also worth remembering Budahazya is that at 39 you could very well be entering peri menopause with all its accompanying hormonal shifts which can play havoc with your mood and your confidence. Take time to get the facts of your difficulties and then you can work through them. Then you yourself can be the one to show others how it can all be done.

I've been in depression about a lot of things over the past two years because it didn't seem like there was much I could do about the economy, lack of employment, being poor, and all the world's troubles, etc... and anything I did do just seemed like wasted energy. Then when my prolapse occurred in March,I really felt completely hopeless. The bottom fell right out of my life..no pun intended! I thought I was going to have to seek disability as I could not sit for long or stand for long and the only relief I got was lying on my left side and sleeping. I was truly so miserable that I couldn't imagine how I was going to live another week like this, much less- 30 plus years! Like you, I was panicked, stricken with uncertainty, fear and hopelessness. my only source of income was from growing vegetables and I couldn't even do that without having to hire help.

I came here to this site and I've received so much information, sometimes differing opinions. Overall though I try to keep an open mind and I enjoy differing perspectives because what works for one, may not work for me and visa versa. I listen and try different things and whatever works, I keep doing it. My main issue was that I had to learn to relax. I truly did not realize how much my pelvis responded to stress and was making my prolapse so much worse. Tense pelvic muscles don't feel the same as a tight neck or tight chest- at least not for me. I wasn't paying close enough attention. So, I had to take time to really learn how to become mindful of those muscles and learn to relax them and I used a combination of imagery and meditation. Just worrying about all this is enough to cause me to relapse and I know that, so I really try to stay positive.
I find all sorts of ways to help me with my posture when I'm sitting. I have a foam wedge, rolled towels and pillows that I place in chairs to force me into posture and also remind me to get into posture. Have you tried different chairs in your home to see if any particular one feels more comfortable for you? I had to do that and of course, the chair that I never use was the one that works best for me.

I've changed my diet as well for both physical and spiritual health.

I know how hopeless this condition may feel and seem but I believe that you will see a great improvement if you will be proactive and keep a positive attitude. Relax and open yourself up to trying different things. Listen to your body and it will let you know what works and what doesn't but in the meantime, you really need to clear all that negative self talk from your mind. It has a lot of power over every part of your body and will block progress and healing.

You mentioned electro-stimulation. i'm not doing that exactly but I am using acupuncture therapy in conjunction with the other advice on here to help me and it's not only helped my prolapse but it's helped my depression as well. I mention this because acupuncture does heal the body with a similar electro-stimulation even though it doesn't utilize electricity to do so. I've barely even noticed my prolapse for over a week now. For now, I've found a good combination of therapies that are working but, I also know that as my body ages, what works today may not be so effective tomorrow and I'll have to try something different. Until then, I count this day as a blessing and I do my best to enjoy it. I try not to worry about what might happen because it's too easy for me to get trapped in negativity and fear.

I hope you feel better very soon!

Budahazya, as a moderator on this forum I feel it is my duty to point out that pessary use is not recommended for rectocele. Butterfly, who has posted this suggestion, is brand-new to the forum and does not have a rectocele. Anyone can post on the forum, and we try to sort out the bad suggestions when we see them. If you want to try a pessary, that would be up to you.

Many members here have other prolapse-management tools besides posture. If something helps, we say, do it! But without the posture correction, which is the basis for stabilizing prolapse, there is not likely to be any significant and lasting results. If you are completely unable to relax the belly and pull up your chest, then your posture is going to prevent you from getting the improvements you are looking for.

We are all here trying to put your fear and dread to rest, by encouraging you in this work. But you need to get started on it before any more time goes by. Why can you not breathe with your chest up? Why can you not relax your belly? These are questions that must be addressed, because you need this posture. - Surviving

Like Surviving said, I'm new here and don't have a rectocele. And I'm from Germany and it seems to be, that here we are doing the same as in Hungary: wearing a cube pessary for every type of cele. But I think - that's why I'm here in this forum after reading a bit - that these women here do have more experience and so I'd trust them.
Sorry again for confusing you!
Butterfly

Ladies, it's not just your doctors over there, but all of them everywhere, who are giving out the wrong advice about prolapse. Prescribing treatments that range from ineffective to harmful to life-destroying. By finding WW you have the chance to cut through the confusion. Retrain your body. Prolapse can be managed. A thorough understand of WW principles will shield you from all that bad advice sitting out there waiting to pounce on you! - Surviving

Whenever you are offered a treatment by a medical practitioner, it is perfectly acceptable for you to ask them questions. They can even refer you to studies which show what effect the treatment is expected to have, and what adverse outcomes they can also have. For your own peace of mind and in the interests of doing what is the best thing for you and your family at this particular point in time, you need to be able to make an informed choice.
What we have discovered on this forum is that pessaries work for some ladies, not so for others. There can be a tedious fitting process and the insertion and retrieval with some types of pessaries can be done daily by yourself, others are left inside for months on end and then cleaned by the doctor. There are a variety of pessaries, and some, from statements on this forum, are more suitable than others for particular types of prolapse. Another cause of concern for some ladies is an odour which the pessaries can encourage and for others the type of lubricant which they require. And for others the pessary comes out of place.
This site is about posture and for us the management of prolapse involves the strengthening of all our muscles including those surrounding the pelvic organ into correct female posture. Accordingly, some women decide to use the pessary for a short time to help them get over immediate hurdles much as one uses a prosthetic somewhat like a walking stick if you have damaged your leg, although obviously a little more complex. Most people use the stick to regain confidence (keeping over people at bay out on the street or similar peopled areas) and quickly dispense with it realising the full strength of the leg will return only if we put our full weight upon it. I view the pessary similarly. It denies or delays the opportunity of strengthening these muscles and so I have chosen not to go that route. Wholewoman posture is putting the onus back onto the true positioning of our skeletal/muscular apparatus to hold our pelvic organs comfortably.
It really is a personal choice and one only you can make on the best information you can gather and also depending on your present life situation and what your instincts are telling you. But a pessary is not really compatible with the practice of Wholewoman and of course therein lies your dilemma. The pessary may present as a quick fix. It certainly is not a cure, and is usually not presented as such. Wholewoman, on the other hand takes longer and requires dedication, but it also strengthens your whole body in the process and with all the added bonuses that come with that. It becomes then a habit of life to carry into your future.
Good luck.

Thanks fab, and let me also point out, my original comment was specific to pessary and rectocele. I have no personal experience with this, it's right out of Christine's book. - Surviving

Surviving’s questions about posture. Maybe B instead of thinking in terms of raising your chest, you think of it instead as straightening your spine and deepening your lumbar curve. When you do that you should feel a pull on your tummy especially around your navel. Now when you are held like that, take a breath in (just a normal one) and then exhale. Now on this next breath can you feel your tummy expanding out like a strong balloon? No pushing just can you feel it? Next breath can you give it a little nudge by pushing it out a little? If you still cannot feel it, can you sit up close to a table or desk so that you tummy is up against it? When you next breathe, you should be able to feel it. That is what you need with the breathing; that ballooning out on the inhale and the relaxing back on the exhale. Breathe in means tummy out, breathe out means tummy in. Mentally visualising it can be a stumbling block, because this breathing is instinctual; so it is a bit like analysing a reflex. But once you can get to feel it, you will do it naturally even if mentally the quick new brain is not used to monitoring it at all and that old dinosaur (or snake) brain retains its secrets.
The breathing should help you to hold the posture. The posture feels difficult at first. Think in terms of the stretch it gives your whole body, the full pull against gravity and the push downward of pelvic organs and intestines. You should be able to visualise that rectocele of yours receding up and back against the rectum.
The other avenue to inquire into is, because you are in Europe, pelvic organ exercises may not necessarily mean kegels. (Although what you describe does sound similar.) You may find some physiotherapists are more in line with Christine’s thinking on the types of exercise that is suitable to the treatment of prolapse. If they concentrate on strengthening the whole pelvic region, you might find them ok as long as they are willing for you to try these whilst maintaining posture. I know you are probably limited for time, but even the most busy amongst us are entitled to hobby time, make this your hobby. That’s what women need; more knowledgeable ones amongst us who can share their learnings. Now that families are much smaller it is hard for us to share in the bounty of others’ experience, that’s where this forum comes in.

"By the way I am trying to stay in posture but this is extremely difficult for me. With my chest up I simply can not breath. And I am not able to relax my belly...But I have some nice and detailed comment for my question related to this issue, so I will do my best."

This is some info about a "stuck diaphragm" which you may be dealing with!

As discussed elsewhere (see “Stability and Balance”) most of us, in the process of growing up, have acquired habits which interfere with the natural, integrated functioning of the body. In a very young child, the muscles of the spine form a unified support for the body in all its activities. As we begin interfering with this natural support (through unconsciously imitating the habits of our parents and friends, sitting in front of the TV or computer, and so on) we build up a network of tension which substitutes for the support of the spine. As a part of this network of tension, we begin to recruit the ribs and diaphragm to help support the body. Once this takes place, our breathing is seriously compromised, as the breathing mechanisms can no longer function as they were designed to. The diaphragm then becomes stuck, and cannot fully release into a complete exhale. It is as if people learn to hold their breath all the time
The problem, then, is that when people are told to breathe in a different way, they will recruit the same patterns of tension as they always do, except in a more exaggerated form. No matter what they are told, to “breathe” means, in practice, to activate the pattern of tension they have associated with breathing. There is no way, without more understanding and more skill, to breathe in any other way, since the breathing mechanism is now being used to help support the body. Next, through focusing on the exhale (which is a relaxation and release of the diaphragm) NOT on the inhale, students learn to let go of the spasm which prevents a full exhale. The inhale then comes in as a reflex, and a deeper pattern of breathing can be established. Again, if someone is simply told to breathe more deeply, or to "breathe from the abdomen," they will simply breathe the way they always do, except with more force.
http://nyc4at.com/gpage10.html

alemama, you are not alone in having diffuculty breathing. I have been experimenting with breathing in posture for months and a lot of the time I just feel like I'm hyperventilating. I hope to figure it out in time!

Thanks fab and alemama for very helpful posts. Fab talks about visualizing and this is so important. Christine describes women as horizontal creatures from the waist down - like a four-legged animal. This has always been an important visual for me. It's one of the things that helped me learn to stay in posture.

There can be so many different factors making it easier or harder for different women to adopt this posture. Whatever it takes, it is worth the effort. When you get it, you will feel a change. Fab is right, you must carve out this time and effort for yourself. - Surviving

Budahazya, when the chest is lifted your lungs are already partially inflated, so of course you feel like you cannot inhale as much as normal! This is OK. You won't run out of oxygen. If you feel like you are running out, then you can just breathe out fully and start inhaling again. It really is amazing how little oxygen we really need! See Buteyko for more on this. However, I can understand that in your emotional state, you will be more aware of trying to get enough air, so don't feel bad about it. Just breathe.

Having empty lungs is a bit like having a floppy pelvic floor. If you lift your chest your lungs will automatically inflate, just because of the way the muscles between the ribs, and in your shoulder girdle, and even your diaphragm work! Your lumbar curve will become greater and your pelvic bones will also open out at the back and make your pelvic floor tighter. You won't be able to get much movement out of your pelvic floor either. Kegels just do not work when you have a full lumbar curve. The muscles are already stretched out! They find it very hard to shorten!

I suggest that you buy First Aid for Prolapse from the WW Store, and start learning some more about your body. Then you really will be eventually be able to manage it by yourself. You will learn to trust your body and trust yourself.

Louise