Just diagnosed....please help - is it possible to get pregnant and deliver after prolapse diagnosis?

Hi,
If you go to the home page and click on "Readers write" and then click on "Birth Stories", I think you will find the answers to your questions. Also browse the forum Pregnancy and Prolapse, especially posts by "Full of Grace". Her story of her last birth is in the Birth stories section.
Good Luck.
Flora

You're just at the beginning of your healing. I recommend reading Christine's most recent blog post about surgical cure. There's a lot of helpful info in that thread.

You had a difficult birth experience, to say the least. Ugh!! You'll see in my birth story that my first was traumatic, too. I didn't notice prolapse until after the birth of my 3rd baby. All were born vaginally, the last two at home, blissfully, and without complication.

Here's some suggestions to get going:

read everything on the back posts you can. Get Christine's book. It's full of a wealth of info. Start doing the sitting and standing postures right away. Incorporate the other lifestyle changes as you see fit. They really help. Diet is of the utmost importance. Have as much of a whole food, unprocessed diet as possible. I recommend grinding flax seeds and getting a good dose of them every day -- on cereal, in rice or oatmeal, or on yogurt. I find Christine's dvd, First Aid for Prolapse, the exercise routine, invaluable in aiding the stabilization and reversing the condition. I do them every night and it has a big impact on my overall well being. Search high and low for things to help you heal your overall self. In addition to the above, I do acupuncture and Chinese herbs, have seen a chiropractor, use a vaginal exerciser and do some bodywork called the Alexander Technique. For me, it's part of healing my whole self. I also make sure to rest more than I did before.

As far as more babies, many women have had more with prolapse. Jane (fullofgrace)'s experience is reallly inspirational. You'll have to gather your info and make your own decisions, over time. Now that you're on the recovery path, you might find some months down the line that making the decision to have another baby is not so fraught with anxiety as it is now.

Be well, and get as much support here as you can.

Marie

What grade did he say you are? I am wondering also what part of the Uk you are in (I am in Kent)

I started with a grade 2 uterine prolapse I was scared to death like you when i got to this site
My Dr rammed a far far too large pessary ring in me and that gave me a grade 1 rectocele (bowel prolapse) and cystocele (bladder prolapse)

I saw a Gynae at my hospital (Dr J R Duckett) He was wonderful. he said it was not a lets just cut you up and see what happens Dr - He also said that most of the damage was already done and if I chose to have another child it would probably not change much. I dunno whether to believe that bit or not lol.

He also saw my mother and gave her a pessary ring (less than half the size of the one my Dr gave me! and she is happy with it and it helps her alot.

So... I digress...

I came here with a grade 2 and I was doing 300+ useless Kegels a day. now...
I have a grade1 prolapse of all 3 (uterus bladder bowel) And this site and the posture has helped tremendously - I feel normal again :-) (Well as normal as you can feel knowing 'it's there' - But I do not feel it hardly ever now. I can walk and not feel it peeking...

I also do still do about 20-30 Kegels a day - It helped the leaking and now I dont worry about that either...

Keep the faith and know that a 2nd opinion from a different Dr might help you.

Feel free to send me a message through the site - I am happy to help in any way I can :-)

Oh - If you are nearby - This is Dr Duckett...
http://www.bupahospitals.co.uk/asp/searches/consultant/ConsultantProfile...|=&cons_id=836&og_id=2647

My prolapse was there from my first son's birth - He was forceps and after having him I always felt like a brick was gonna fall out of me! After my 2nd son It was a little better but still there...
Then a huuuuuuuge gap and 12yrs later I had my daughter. After this I felt 'it' peeking when I stood up - This was when she was a year old. I went to walk and it felt so uncomfortable and annoying and always felt like it was trying to escape outta me...

Every time I had an exam it felt worse.

My Dr is a nortorious idiot so I should never have let her anyone near me - My partner was there with me when she rammed that ring in - He said he wa straumatised cos I have been through 3 births and I did not cry or scream - But this was bad! (But in saying that Mum also had a pessary ring and hers is absolutely fine - so after my problem she refused to go to our Dr and got it done by Dr Duckett)

I do mine just by sitting up and 'lifting' It stopped the constant need to wear liners and the constant feeling that I am about to wet myself :)
Some days I may do 50 - But it is not the focus of my life any more - The posture has helped me so much that the constant Kegels are not on my mind anymore.

Personally If I was you - I would go for yet another opinion - If you were in Kent I would say demand to see Dr Duckett. We were thinking of a 4th and last child (I am 38 now was 37 then) He said it would be fine - Not knowing if the birth would be brech or traumatic or anything - hard to tell..

I know I got my damage from the forceps - I went on to have TWO births vaginally after that and I can hapilly say now that my prolapse went from a grade 2 to a grade1 through lessening the kegels (as too many weakens muscles) and using posture.

I would not have surgery. probably not at all...
Mainly cos I have read on other websites (wont mention the name here) But the women on there start with one fix it all surgery - Then have many more to fix what broke again. So it is not one fix it all up surgery - not at all...

If I were you I would impliment posture today. In a few months then rethink how you feel about prolapse children and life.

remember- The doctors work is surgery. Thats how they make their money. That is all they have read about.

I would try to impliment the more natural changes first. Then if nothing (and i mean nothing at all) works - Then think again on surgery. My mother wqas thining about surgery (She is 62yrs) And she has the pessary now - And will refuse surgery for the rest of her life now :)

This is your life - But you need to take time and think of all the avenues that you would go down. What means the most to you.

We decided to not have a last child - But prolapse did not make that decision - I also have Multiple Sclerosis - And age crept up - We tried a few times and nothing happened so life made that choice - prolapse will not make my choices for me - This is my body and I WILL be the boss (lol)

I hope you will think deeply and not jump into anything before you have tried to impliment the posture etc

Sue

Do you know what forceps they used on you? (Just cos I am nosy lol) They used wrigleys on me - Just wondering if a certain type makes things worse...

I wish you luck - Remember I am always here and I am no Dr but I have life's knowledge with me. I had my first child age 20 and my last child aged 34.5yrs - And - no matter what you do time moves forwards.

So keep the faith and do what helps you and you alone!

Good luck

Sue

PS - Change your profile to accept emails and I will send you my email address :-)

lol = laugh out loud

I sent you an email - It should say on your maternity notes what forceps they murdered your underparticles with - hehe

I always thought of wrigleys as chewing gum - I wonder who this evil Mr Wrigley and Mr Simpson was...
I guess they meant well - Just being men they prolly didnt think of the damage they would cause to the mother.

Did your baby come out looking like he had gone a few rounds with Mike Tyson? My eldest did! You have your first child - and get a bruised lump of squished up cuteness...

I am happy to say he is now a healthy 17yr old - pretty nice lookin too :-)

wrigleys - http://www.moondragon.org/images/obforceps8.jpg

simpsons - http://www.medceu.com/images/3723med3284-05.jpg
They look the same to me - lol

What was that a wise woman once said? "Forceps by any other name are still forceps".

And another thing, if they have to get in there and string a woman up, like something out of Cirque de Soleil, to pull a baby out, why can't they invent some sort of harness thingy that will suspend a labouring woman up in a squatting position in the air with her legs apart so the birth canal is bigger, instead of on her back like a stranded cockroach with the birth canal pushed closed by the coccyx.

I guess that would put the nice clean obstetrician in a somewhat vulnerable position, wouldn't it? Well, the boot would be on the other foot then, wouldn't it!

Or maybe the baby would slither out by itself and destroy the opportunity to get out the nice shiny forceps?

Oh dear, the mind boggles! LOL
Cheers

Louise

OH MY!!!!
what a visual, Louise. can you just imagine an OB standing BENEATH a woman in labor? hanging from the ceiling no less???? oh thats funny. hehehehe.

seriously though, why not just let the laboring woman STAND UP?

or do just whatever it was she felt was best at the time!!

Standing never appealed to me, but boy, when I got in that birth tub, I relaxed so much that the little one flew out in two pushes without ever crowning.

freedom, that's the ticket. and, privacy, so the sphincter can do it's work and open.

Yea, I still have nightmares about the vacuum extraction. My dh said our dd's neck was very elongated while being pulled out. Not to mention that I tore so bad that I ended up in OR and a blood transfusion. I still secretly covet the fact that I wouldn't let them do an episiotomy. Don't know if it helped or hurt, but it makes me feel a little better.

Love to all.

Marie

Hi, JBee...

First off, HUGS to you.

So many similarities in our stories.

Wishing you speedy healing from the surgery next week. Will it be an outpatient procedure or will you be spending some time at the hospital?

As with the fistula that I had corrected, once I recovered from the surgery and got the go ahead to begin exercising and addressing the prolapse, things definitely started feeling better and my outlook became so much brighter about it all. Now 5 months post surgery, it all seems like a dream and so very long ago already.

Please keep us updated. Healing vibes to you *~*~*~*~.

Peace,
Michele

You are all right of course. A labouring woman needs to labour however she needs to. I've been enstirruped and epiduraled myself, on the advice of my obstetrician (pre-eclampsia) and it is the most vulnerable I have ever felt in my life. Fortunately, I was subsequently able to experience two lovely, simple, vaginal deliveries, and basically do what I liked, wherever I liked.

Perhaps we, as experienced birthers should become the engineers, and collude with managers of labour to come up with appropriate aids for birthing, eg I was serious about the sky harness thingy. I didn't want the epidural, but agreed to it because it supposedly had a blood-pressure lowering effect. However it meant that I was literally paralysed from the breastbone downwards, and couldn't have pushed to save myself, let alone stood or squatted. However, in a more upright position the little fella would probably have come out much more smoothly than he did, assisted by gravity, and possibly left me a lot less damaged by forceps and subsequent episiotomy.

And I'm certainly not the only one who has had this treatment.

As I have said in a previous post, you really need to give consent to anything in a hospital. There are no rules that say you have to do what you are told. Having said that, one is not usually in the most assertive state of mind during labour, which just highlights the importance of having a trusted, knowledgable and physically strong advocate with you through labour, and finding out as much as you can about the hospital and your obstetrician, and discussing your battle plan with them well beforehand, so that trust is established on both sides.

By the way ladies, it is just so lovely to read about your stories of healing. I am so happy for everyone who has managed to get through these terribly painful experiences and come out the other end to offer support and encouragement to others. Keep praying for those still in difficulty. This is a truly wonderful site that we all visit.

Cheers

Louise

I used one for my youngest. mw brought it along with her. I didn't end up actually delivering on it, as mw and doula suggested full squat, I don't remember why. the stool was pretty comfy.

Hi JBee

I am sure we are not the first women to come up with this, eg pre-Louis IV. However, we need to be realistic here. I would have loved to have had homebirths for all three babies, but the first was conceived via infertility treatment and was very precious. The second and third were relatively straightforward birthwise. I can only have faith that the right things were done during my first labour, and the results of both live and well mother and baby are testament to that faith. What has been has been, and there is always some grief when something goes unexpectedly wrong, with all the denial, blame, sadness, anger etc.

Our society recognises that hospital is a place where most labouring women will birth, and that more healthy neonates and mothers are discharged with a healthy future in front of them. For that I am grateful, as otherwise I would maybe no longer be alive, and my then young husband would have been widowed and childless, as evidenced in pioneer cemetries all over the world. Nobody can deny that modern hospital births have accounted for millions of healthy Mums and neonates being alive and well, when they would probably not otherwise be.

Labour Ward Staff generally do not intervene unless a life is at risk, or policy dictates it. Then it becomes a medical decision. As mothers, I don't think we can't really dispute those decisions. Sometimes a badly torn perineum or something worse is a smaller price to pay than a dead or brain-damaged baby. We all just have to deal with it afterwards.

I imagine that the presence of all those medical specialists and all the stress they *caused* would have put your contractions to an end in a big hurry, as if you weren't in a predicament before they arrived!

I wonder why women are stitched up like bags of grain, in a hurry, and not sutured precisely by somebody who really can pull all the relevant bits together again in an orderly way? Isn't one of the principles of good medical care to "Do no harm"? If a woman had her genital area injured in a car smash, it would be stitched up by a microsurgeon. What is the difference?????

Isn't it also a proven fact that the birth canal is bigger when the woman is in a 'forward' position? Why should that be ignored when things go pear-shaped. Mechanics get under cars, and get showered in all sorts of ghastly stuff, instead of turning them on their sides. Why do obstetricians insist on turning women upside down? I just don't get it.

However, the therapists who deliver antenatal classes and help women recover their bodies after birth don't have much authority in a delivery suite, let alone dictate what equipment should or should not be used in there, from their therapeutic point of view. It is just the way the system works.

Maybe one day, when all this pelvic structural stuff that Christine has brought to the surface, will be mainstream, childbirth professionals will all be wandering around saying, "Why didn't we think of this before?", leading from the rear in the same way as they did when women who wanted modern natural births refused to lie down thirty years ago. At least today women are not forced to lie down in most modern hospitals (I hope). Maybe, just maybe, women's commonsense will eventually prevail. The obstetricians and bossy Matrons will not have a leg to stand on. Roll on the day. In the meantime, we just have to go with the flow a bit, stand up for ourselves when we can, lobby like crazy in the ears that matter, spread the word, learn all we can and give thanks for lives and health of ourselves and our babies.

I can't see any other way to do it.

Cheers

Louise

Yay, you've got it! The world needs more angry people. Nothing would ever change without it.

It sounds like this cyst thing is your nightmare, and it should not be there. Once you have convinced yourself that this surgery is going to leave you better than you are at the moment, you can move on it. Just make sure you know exactly what he is going to do in there, and why, and the risks etc. ie take responsibility for your decision to go ahead, and just do it if you are happy that it is the right thing. It's a bit like a rock and a hard place, but it sounds like for you it is a rock and a softer place. My heart goes out to you.

Just another thought on the microsurgery thing, what if it was a man's genitals in the car accident? There would not be a question, would there? Successful reconstruction would hit the headlines worldwide! Where are all the headlines about newly birthed women being painstakingly reconstructed ???

Best wishes

Louise

EDIT: After a good night's sleep, I googled ""birth chair" modern", and came up with a few contemporary models, none that would shower an unwary obstetrician though.

It's a pity mothers don't take more of their own simple equipment into birth suites.

I remember third pregnancy, teeing up weeks beforehand with the hospital administration to be able to bring a medium thickness foam double mattress, covered in heavy plastic, and rolled up for transport, into the birth suite for the birth of our third child (I didn't have the guts to stand up to a midwife before that!). This Head Midwife, whom I later embarrassed in front of the obstetrician by delivering in a very unusual position (well it was for her anyway), was a bit thingy about it, but I think she could see that I was a difficult woman, and didn't protest too loudly. It gave me the alternative to kneeling, crawling, sitting and generally grovelling around on a hard, tiled floor, so my husband wouldn't have to do gymnastics, and was indeed able to help me labour very skilfully, though he didn't know how much help it would be.

Anyway, it looks like there are a few modern alternatives around, but few woman-friendly seats that will accommodate major interventions. They are all either good for the labouring woman having a simple birth, or easy for obsetric intervention.
Have a look at www.sheilakitzinger.com. I am so happy she is still around with her motherly advice and lifetime of knowledge about natural childbirth and breastfeeding.

Christine, it would be a great place for you to have a link to your site, and vice versa. The two sites would complement each other wonderfully.

Cheers

Louise