Pessaries to capris...

Hi Arizona. Your post is a great read, though I don't have much in the way of suggestion. I was never a prober myself. I'm wondering if you could have rectocele. It is extremely common to have both - probably more common than just having one or the other. With rectocele it's pretty hard to keep a tampon or anything else in place, and pessaries and the like are not recommended. Towards the end of my fertile years, I couldn't keep a tampon in for very long. Since discovering my 'celes I tried one to see if I could get a pessary effect......not!!! But yeah, you'll find a few wardrobe adjustments will be in order.....life is too short for heavy seams running through your crotch. True WW posture needs its freedom. - Surviving

Yes, I think you are right on all counts. Did you have an episiotomy or tear with the birth? Most doctors are right handed and will do an epi on the woman's left side. If it or a tear doesn't heal properly this will usually be the low side. Mine was like that from an 1982 episiotomy. Eventually, around 2003, during a time when I was constipated from stress, and straining on the toilet, something gave way on the other side (I heard/felt it), and evened it all up. On the one hand I was dismayed that the prolapse had worsened, but I was suddenly more comfortable in the vulva and vagina. Somehow, this evening up allowed my organs to line up better, and I was able to kind of reconfigure them better. The constipation and stress eventually resolved . I now have very little problem with cystocele or rectocele or cervix descent.

Urgency? Not sure. But if your bladder is not straight it is likely that there is pressure on it somewhere, maybe your bowel? Check out the possibility of constipation, and adjust your diet. Also, remove caffeine from your diet altogether, for at least a week, and see if this makes a difference. Caffeine is a bladder irritant. There are other things we eat that can be bladder irritants. You can google them and investigate leaving them out of your diet, one at a time, for a week and observe the difference. Upping the amount of veges, particularly greens, and fruits, and whole grains, cutting out sugar, etc, are all sure fire ways to get your guts fitter and have less constipation issues.

Yeah, clothing is a major factor, right down to wearing your undies inside out to avoid seam chafe and leg elastic chafe. Try some yoga pants or capri-length leggings.

Good luck.

Put up a sail with "Arizona" written in big, red letters. There are so many of us out there in the world that I am sure someone will tow you to shore and look after you! You might even end up living on a different continent. Travel opportunities abound! ;-)

:-) :-)

Arizona, you are truly a seeker of truth and wisdom! I admire your diligent research and your conclusions have great merit as far as I can see. You are going to be great! - Surviving

Lol! Arizona!! If that were the case, then all the men in the world would be blind!! Something we always felt as dirty, we now see as a science experiment. I did it too, just to see what was all going on up there! I learned a lot too. Good for you!!

I am new to this site and don't know if I am putting my comments in the right place or not. I am not very computer literate and one reason is that sitting is one of the hardest things for me to do. I am 67 and am stage 2. Have done physically hard work most of my life thinking that would keep me strong. Now I want to retire to traveling, painting and other hobbies that now I can't do. At least not with much enjoyment. Always aware that when I stand up, will all of me get up together.
I have ordered my kit and am already trying to improve my posture from what I read on this site.
An I too old to alter my condition? Do pessaries interfer with the results of the excercises? I have one in now but it isn't working as it used to and my doctor is talking surgery. She isn't very open to keep trying other shapes and sizes. I was so excited when my initial one worked so well this spring. She said I could go back to 4 wheeling and mowing and working as I used to. Did I mess it up by doing that? She said my prolapse was no worse than before she put it in but has no idea why it is failing now.
Anyone have any words of encouragement on any of this stuff I just dumped on you?

Hi Mickey,
I am what they call a newbie just like you. I have been following the whole women protocol for 2 months now and it is working for me. (Stage 2 prolapse).I am 75 so you are a babe in the woods to me. You have to have determination and persistence and not give up. Take little baby steps and avoid thinking you have to do everything at once. Start with learning the posture and when you get that down, then move on to the next step. Know that if you persevere, it will get better. Read as many posts in this forum as you can. You will learn a lot .

Thanks so much for responding. I wasn't even sure I posted right. I don't even do Facebook! I have an immediate question. I am supposed to have a new pessary put in tomorrow. My first one no longer does the job after only 2 months. Do you know if having a pessary in will slow down the progress of the posture and what other exercises in the program?

Hi again Mickey,
My mother managed her prolapse for 18 years and at 88 had a pessary put in and it worked for her till she passed away at 91. From what I have heard by reading posts in this forum, it is very unusual to be so lucky the first time and if it doesn't fit right you will not want it in there. You need a very patient doctor. I have chosen to follow the WW way and learn the posture (it took me over month but as I mentioned before persistence and determination are key to success.) Some women get a pessary and learn to put it in/out themselves ie use it for special occasions and always take it out at night. Keeping in there can have some long tern negative effects. Also, depending on your body ,you may or may not even be able to wear one. Everyone's prolapse is individual that's why it is trial and error.
Some have found the pessary will stretch the ligaments more over time and require a larger one. I have been holistic in my outlook for many years so I speak from that venue. Years ago I had such pain in my lower back, that I finally went to see an orthopedic dr. And he told me the only option I had wa to fuse my spine to stop the pain.talk about being over the edge!! I did not have a computer to do research, but the next day, a woman gave me a book with a non surgical approach to back pain, and in 3 months, My body healed itself. I was a lot younger then. You are not too old to learn the posture. In the end it is your decision, your body, and only you know it best. Just remember doctors learn how to write prescriptions and do surgery. Pessaries are a temporary fix, the whole woman protocol is not a cure, but a way to manage prolapse through posture, diet, exercise and lifestyle changes. It is not easy, when I started the beginning exercises from the book, I had to keep lying down between exercises. Everything is easy when you know how to do it. That applies to the pessary too, some can do it themselves and some can't and have to leave it in till the doctor takes it out and cleans it. My personal position is why not try WW posture first,read the book and watch the cd if you are able to get both. A lot of gals love the cd which is a lot of mat work. I read the book 3 times and when I felt comfortable with the posture, I started the exercises very slowly being sure I was in posture before attempting each one. You will see how one builds on the other. You can hold onto the back of a chair, I use the top of a lower bookcase. You don't have to have the ballet barre, just something about waist height to place one hand on for balance. If you like the mat idea and learn easier from seeing someone do the exercises, then you will learn faster that way. It is recommended to try both and decide for yourself or do one every other day. This is an exciting journey if you chose to make it one. Do not give up your painting. I am also a watercolor artist and a fledging pianist. I have choen to set these aside temporarily until I am stronger and that is slowly happening from following the posture all day and doing the exercises and following the recommended diet. I have much more to learn. As to the traveling, I am not going to say never, just not right yet. After only 2 months, I can honestly tell you, it does get better, no matter how hopeless you feel now. There are so many wonderful gals ready to answer any questions including several moderators who are WW Practioners and have studied with Chrisine. I hope this note has given you something to think about. Blessings of peace and joy to you!! free2Be p.s I don't think it's advisable to have the pessary in while doing the WW exercises, but this question is better answered by one of the Practitioners, who will hopefully respond shortly. Being the holiday weekend things may be a tad slower.

I am fairly new here( two months?) as well and have only posted a few times but have been reading a lot. My impression from this site was that while pessaries are okay the preference is to not go that route if possible. However, for me, the pessary gave me instant relief and a "normal" life again. At the present time I am following WW posture/exercises etc while using the pessary. I am not yet a confident person with the pessary and have to see my Dr regularly for cleaning and removing but I am getting better at finding the darn thing and have hopes that I will be able to remove a clean, manage it myself eventually. I am not there yet. My life style has always been an active one and the pessary has helped me continue with my equestrian activities although I was very nervous at first if it would stay in place during riding! I am now riding 5 times a week again and have just adjusted how I work around my barn when it come to heavy lifting and barn cleaning in general.
I am a bit concerned that I am following the WW posture correctly due to the fact that I have found it so easy to adapt to but it may be because of my years of dressage training as the postures are similar. I hope I am on the right track and perhaps I will be able to reduce my use of the pessary in time but I am now 70 years old.

Hi Mikey and welcome. As free2be says, pessaries can be a tricky proposition. They can provide symptom relief in some cases, but if you are wearing one and not getting any symptom relief at this point, I would ditch it for now and work on posture. You didn't mention whether you had primarily a uterine prolapse or primarily a cystocele/rectocele thing. If rectocele is involved at all, you won't get much help from a pessary and will only aggravate the tissues by wearing one. WW posture over time can stabilize things and most importantly help you get over your fear of the bulge and fear of things getting worse and "falling out". I started this work at 60 and have been here over 3 years and very very happy with this aspect of my life. This body correction has huge implications for hips, spine, and overall health and well-being.....prolapse stabilization is but one aspect. I too at one time feared that "life as I knew it" was ending just when I thought it was going to go off in a new direction entirely. Well, it certainly did! If you immerse yourself in all things WW, you will look at your future differently. Good luck and welcome aboard! - Surviving

Thanks for your support and encouragement. I am 67 and have been very active and hard working. Mom always said this would happen if I didn't act like a lady. I have purchased bottle nipples this morning. Been a long time since I've done that!. Am anxious to see if that will work for me just for the interim until I can get on the plan. Am already trying to maintain good posture.
This site means so much to me.
Mikey

Hi, I am new here and mostly reading right now. I have just been diagnosed with the cystocele/rectocele issue and have visited a Dr and have a flat pessarry on order. Before I get that can someone explain the use of the bottle nipples to me? The Dr strongly recommended the type with the nipple shape but I could not tolerate it and it hurt to pass urine. On top of that th Dr had a hard time breaking the suction to get the thing out .My thinking is the baby bottle nipple may help if I know how to choose one and use it until I understand about the posture. I will not be able to afford the book right away and am trying to learn by reading here. I am ashamed to admit that at 69 I know little about my female parts and when I was told the pessary advised will rest on my urethra, I did not even know just where that is so I am not even sure which way the nipple part should face. Very embarrassing!

Onedrland, a new member on this forum by the name of "gingl" is the one who started this recent baby bottle nipple craze. It works for her, I don't know about anyone else (so far). It isn't a Whole Woman thing. I have this amusing picture in my mind of everyone scurrying out to buy nipples! - Surviving

I had one afterthought from my long previous post to you. Something for you to consider, if your last pessary only lasted 2 years and you need a new, larger one, could this indicate the pessary is stretching your ligaments? How many new larger ones will you need before they don't have one big enough? These are the negatives that are possible outcomes of using a pessary at such a young age. yes my dear, 67 is the new 47!!!!!! Something to ponder. In my Mothers case, she waited until very old and senile and really needed it then, and was able to get fitted by a patient doctor and wear a pessary for the remainer of her life. My mother was a very wise woman and that wisdom served her well. I have chosen to learn and do WW protocol just as long as I can enabling another choice
Down the road if I need it. Sometimes the quick fix is not the best choice in the long run. And once you commit yourself to thw WW way, you will see the results. Best wishes, Free2Be

Hello Onedrland
I am fairly new too and found myself diagnosed a few months ago as well but I am sure I had been living with cystocele for some time..just ignored it until I had no choice and panicked! I have just turned 70 and like you I have only begun to learn about my female parts. I think it might be an age thing, younger people are so much better informed these days. I do have a pessary and I am in my second month of learning to live with one but I am working on the WW posture and exercises. It has taken me this long to feel a bit more comfortable with the whole prolapse issue and learn how to manage it. I must admit my bladder problems were instantly "cured" with the pessary in place . It was a constant worry and I was always in extreme discomfort without constant bathroom visits. I am hoping I can reduce the use of the pessary in time.

Thanks for the input. You may be right. I guess I am just grasping at straws since I am starting to get petty miserable. I have a lot more research to do.

Nice to connect with another newbie especially of my age and same problem. Maybe we will learn together?!
Yes I do think it is an age thing and I feel really stupid trying to figure out where everything is. Never have been one for exploring. Like many women my age, most things were kept private, not discussed, sometimes too shameful to mention. I am sure I too have just ignored the problem, having the same bladder problem with many bathroom visits and urgency. What type of pessary are you using? The only one I could tolerate at my Dr. visit was the diaphragm type and the Dr. says she is not sure it will help me much with my incontinence issues but I felt I have coped all this time with that so I will just have to continue to do so. I am hoping that I, like you can deal with the pessary, at least mostly for more comfortable living until I can get the book and learn more about WW ad reduce use of the pessary.

Yes, I am thinking maybe it has done me harm in the long run. Have talked with one of the practitioners and am going to have it taken out and try concentrating on the program as soon as I get it. Which should be in a few days.
I appreciate everyones help.

Onedrland,
Our stories sound so similar! My pessary is the diaphragm type..a round ring that is filled in but has a few holes. my doctor says I am supposed to put my finger in the hole when I pull it out.
I am always so amazed by some of the posters here who can give great details of their explorations and what they are feeling. I don't have a clue! I think if I keep practising and get a little braver each time, I might learn a bit but I don't know what is "normal". Sometimes in my daily activites, I do feel the pessary more than other days and I did not realize that it could move around. I am now able to adjust it a bit and feel fairly comfortable doing it. At this time I am afraid to take it out because I m not sure I could get it back in correctly. It is very high up. My dr told me that my urthea tube was kinked like a hose and that was why I was feeling the constant need to pee all the time. The pessary did solve that immediately but I know that it is not always like that for others. She did not encourage me to have surgery thank goodness and she encouraged trying to manage the prolapse with a pessary. I am also supposed to see a PT but I have not yet done that. This is NOT the adventure I planned for at this particular stage of my life.

I hadn't done any such 'exploring' either, ladies. And I'm only 52.

However, when things started to go wrong, and I started searching for answers, the lovely ladies on this site began to help me to take control of my own health too.

It seems that not learning these things has caused many women to put themselves into the hands of the medical 'professionals' where 'trial & error' has caused more pain and problems than necessary.

Do all you can to learn what you need to know from this site, and avoid surgery as much as possible.

:-)
**HUGS**
want2know

want2know,
Thanks. I am just lucky to have stumbled on this site and don't know much yet but have learned enough that I am telling anyone that will listen to come to this site and read what it has to offer from all the terrific and helpful women here who are willing to share and encourage the newbies, especially if there is not an issue yet and it can be avoided.

Nikko,
Yes our stories sure do sound similar, very much so. I feel a little encouraged by your comments but that moving around issue with the pessary, from what I have read would concern me. I will be getting the same type of pessary. My Dr. seemed to indicate that if it moved around too much it could cause damage. That is why she tried the largest one I could tolerate and got it stuck. It was a nightmare for me on that fitting appointment.
We live in an RV and move around a lot and this was not what I had planned as part of my adventure either. I have been really worried it would put a crimp in our plans. Maybe we will both be lucky enough to have the WW program work for us and do away with the pessary one day. Guess I will have to get the book asap and hope I understand better. A lot of what I am reading on this site still sounds a little foreign to me. I am the kind of person that has to be shown and experience things for myself and that is a little tough in this case. Lets keep plugging!!

Hi onedrland - no question this is a lot to wrap your brain around. So just to get you started thinking, I want you to really take a hard look at your posture now. When you stand up straight, are you sucking in your tummy, and tucking your butt a bit? Most of us were taught that this is "good" posture and had been doing it for decades when we first came to this work. It took me into my second year to "unlearn" that stance completely, to the point that I could go about my day without constantly forgetting. To this day I still have to watch myself consciously when I bend and lift. It is the work of a lifetime and the farther you feel you have to go, the sooner you should start! Seriously. I don't think luck is nearly as important here as hard work and attitude are. - Surviving

Hi Surviving 60
I am starting to grasp the idea that this will be a work of a lifetime and I am glad I have time now in my advanced age to take the time. I have read some real horror stories on this forum and many from much younger women and I feel blessed that my cystocele and rectocele issue has not shown up until now. I also know from reading here that I am lucky in that I do not have pain, just discomfort even though my bladder prolapse is a stage 3. The worst problem for me is the incontinence issue as it is a worry and embarrassment. Kind of stinks that we go through all the trials of life being female, and at this stage here we are wearing pads again and sometimes diapers and worrying about possible odors associated with this.
I do know I have always tried to hold in the stomach, although not as much in recent months as I am on one of my many weight hikes. Been up and down all my life. Sucking it in at this stage almost seems pointless but I still find myself trying. How silly is that! Anyway, if I am understanding it right, I am trying to move about with my stomach and butt muscles relaxed and trying to do the new kegels as seen in the video and am on that life's work road as best I can be for now. Thanks for your input and I will keep reading and appreciating.

As I had said, I still have a lot to learn but I have hope that the posture and new kegel exercise is already helping to some small extent. I have really bad knees so I do the exercise standing bent at the hips, sitting just does not seem the best for me. I do not notice the bladder in any better a place but I have been noticing that the pads that I always wear have several times been dry at the end of the day and the last few days, in the morning. Do I dare hope I am doing something right? I have a short term part time job that has me lifting and stretching and on my feet for several hours that will end at the end of this month so I am hoping that will help too especially as it will give me more time to concentrate on the posture. It is hard enough learning this that I think I need to fine tune that before I do that kind of work. Hope to get the senior package soon too. Can't say enough how I appreciate this site and how fortunate I feel after reading what some of you are going through even though sometimes I let myself slip and feel sorry for myself and a bit depressed, just for a little while till I have a talk with myself. Most of that is because I have so many issues and now this prolapse on top of it all can feel overwhelming at times. This site is helping me keep a more positive outlook.

Onedrland, I read that you have to lift in your part time job. For your sake, lift carefully in WW posture. I am in terrible condition due to damage done by heavy lifting. If only I knew then what I know now!

Onedrland, if you have not already ordered a DVD I would recommend First Aid for Prolapse. The Elders DVD is excellent for someone of limited mobility, but it doesn't sound like you fall into that category and there is so much on FAFP that I wouldn't want you to miss. Any move can be modified or skipped altogether if it is not comfortable for you. You are correct about relaxing the belly, that is the first key to all of this, and very hard for some of us to get used to! I was into my second year before it became second nature and I still have to watch myself when I bend and lift. With belly relaxed, pull the chest up, keep shoulders down but do not force them back ("shoulders back" another posture fallacy!). This will start you on the road to restoring lumbar curvature and moving those organs forward. Take it slow at first, be patient, expect to be doing this forever! I started this well after menopause and I know that it is never too late to benefit from the posture correction! - Surviving

Thanks Osmari, I do think the job I took on has accelerated the bladder prolapse and I am being as careful as possible. Only 8 more working days left in the month and I won't be doing a job like that again. Thanks for the advise. I wish you well and am sorry to hear you are in that condition.

Surviving 60, I have not ordered the DVD yet and it sounds like I may be glad. The only real mobility limits I have is with my knees as I am bone on bone and have the old Arthur pretty bad as well as cysts and bone spurs in the knees. I have had several falls in the last few years and always seemed to add insult to already bad knees. I have trouble standing in one place too long, sitting with the knees bent too long or bending and I absolutely can not get down on my knees. I know I should probably address this but I do have a real fear of being put to sleep, guess it is a control thing. Anyway I figured as long as I can still walk pretty good and do not have too much pain I will hold off until I can't anymore. I did have the series of Hyalgen (not sure of the spelling) shots and that has been a big help in keeping surgery at bay. Unless you tell me you think this will be an issue I will plan on getting the first aid dvd soon. My husband and I live and move around in our RV and work in campgrounds in the summer to supplement our socials and we are getting ready to head south for the winter so I will wait till we get settled. I appreciate the input and the reminder about the posture. I do feel more hopeful than I did when I first discovered the prolapse, which was not long ago. I really am fortunate to be 69 this month and was always strong and healthy until about 3 years ago and even the I am not really doing all that bad compared to many others. Counting my blessings. All my best to you and thanks again.

Onedrland, I don't believe that bad knees are particularly a hindrance to Whole Woman work, and the FAFP prolapse DVD will be your best choice. All of Christine's DVDs contain a wide variety of moves from which we all get to pick and choose the ones that work best for us. You are an active lady with a great outlook, and this work is so important for hips and spine as well as prolapse. i'm 63 myself and eternally grateful to have discovered this.....my whole attitude towards getting older has changed. Please do work on the elements of posture, until you get settled in for the winter and you can decide what to get. I myself worked strictly from the book for the first year. And several years later, it sits by my bedside all the time. - Surviving

Well my pessary came in and I was able to insert it myself in the Dr's office, walked around with it and it went well, until I got out to my car and tried to sit. I figured I was just being a baby and needed time to get used to it so kept going to do a few errands. By the time I got home I was so uncomfortable that I almost couldn't make it up the thee steps into my RV. Still thinking I was being a big baby I thought I would try to hold out but it was not long before I was getting rid of that thing. I don't think it is supposed to be that uncomfortable and downright painful to move, right? I was thinking I would use this till I could take in the WW process but now I am not sure. I am due to leave for Fl. this week end and will be there a few months so not sure if I am going to seek out a Dr there or just work harder on the WW stuff and hope that will kick in for me.

I too am relatively new to all this and just posted some good news when I went to see my dr. today. I do not think you are too old. I'm 52 and feel I've been hit hard by menopause. I had never even heard of a cystocele until I was told I had one. Then I started doing research, came across this site and have worked on my posture and exercises but have also added some core strengthening exercises I found on Youtube by Michele Kenway. I get up every morning around 5:00, do my WW exercises then do my exercises with Michele and then get ready for work which requires for me to be on my feet for the better part of the day. By the time I get home I feel like I've got a goose egg tucked between my legs. I do have to rest when I get home for a bit and then get on with what I want to get done in the evening. The fire breathing exercises really do help to get things back where they belong. Read, watch the DVD, and come to terms with the fact that there will be good days and bad but that with time and dedication you can strengthen those muscles. I know look at my exercise regimen as "ME time". You will have to advocate for yourself where your health is concerned by being proactive in gaining knowledge about your condition and knowing what your options are. I think you're off to a great start by being here. I have been encouraged by posts and replies. I hope the same is true for you.

Hey unwelcome,
I looked at Michele kenway's Utube videos, and I hate to say they are based on the concept that we have a pelvic floor that our organs rest on. Christine's concept is that our organs rest up and over the pubic bone, instead. I worry that by doing those exercises will work against rather than with Christine's.

Yep, AG is correct. This is conventional therapy which ignores the real source of pelvic organ support. If you actually study the work of Christine Kent, you will know what we are talking about. You can continue to do both if this is your chosen path of treatment, but I'd look more in depth into Christine's work before making that decision. - Surviving

I don't know which videos you viewed, because there are so many, but there are a few that have the same kind of postural emphasis that Christine demonstrates in her videos. Michelle also emphasizes the importance of breathing correctly. How can strengthening your core muscles with gentle stretches work against you? I believe that there are many ways to improve upon or maintain ones prolapse(s) and Christine's knowledge and instruction has been of great value but it does not negate the fact that there are exercises, other than those demonstrated by Christine that can help in the improvement/maintenance area. I thought this was a forum of sharing not only our fears and frustrations but our little triumphs however small. I just wanted to share, with whomever cared to read what has seemed to work for me.

Unwelcome,
I was in no way trying to offend you. I viewed several of those videos, and all she talked about was pelvic floor muscles and kegel exercise. Whole woman has a completely different concept. It is postural as opposed to strengthing the pelvic floor. Of course you can do what you want, but advertising utube videos that could be possibly counterproductive to whole woman practices may confuse others rather than help them. I am sorry we are misunderstanding each other, but I believe whole heartidly in Christine Kent's work. Best wishes to you.

No one who has really truly studied and applied Christine's concepts to their lives, could possibly be interested in watering down that effort by continuing to practice the conventional "PT/kegels/pelvic floor as a basket" approach at the same time. Christine's proven teachings do in fact "negate" this (your term) to those of us who are really paying attention. At the very least I wish you would go over to the Blog page and do a search on Kegels. Start by reading the article called "Just Do Yer Kegels". I am living proof that Kegels are wrong, and this article explains why.

This is an open forum in the sense that anyone can register and post. But it is the Whole Woman forum first and foremost, and we will comment when we do not agree. You are free to do the same. You don't seem to have grasped some key concepts yet, and this is something we try to help with, because we realize it can be a lot to absorb. - Surviving

I'm another one who experienced prolapse after conventional pelvic floor training - which unfortunately the Michelle Kenway website seems to promote. I'd be wary. The pictures show everything resting on a pelvic floor, whereas Whole Woman is about a pelvic wall, lumbar curve intact, relaxed lower abdomen. Pelvic organs are positioned in a relaxed lower belly in women.

I'm 66 years old and my cystocele (diagnosed 3 years ago) never really bothered me at all until about 6 weeks ago. Mine is caused primarily by severe constipation issues. But, now I feel somewhat OK in the morning, but when I come home after work I feel as if there's a golf ball stuck in my crotch. Lots of pulling and tugging down there too. For the last 8 years I've been taking regular Zumba classes, have lost 40 pounds and feel healthier than I've ever felt in my life. But, this recent development with my cystocele is getting really bad and protruding out I am finding it very difficult to do any form of exercise including walking. This really depresses me because walking was also an antidepressant and stress reliever for my very stressful life. I'm using some of Michelle Kenways exercises and have read Christine's book. I practice the whole woman posture every day. Sometimes I think it's helping, but other times it seems hopeless. I've seen my gynecologist and he's not sure the surgery would help much and said that the problem often returns. I will try a pessary and made the appointment for the fitting in december hoping that I will see some improvement before and not need the pessary. Most websites claim it takes 5 months of correct pelvic exercise or more to see results. Any helpful advice?

One more thing, apparently there's a right way and a wrong way to do kegels. Check out the Kegel Queen.

The muscles used in kegeling have nothing to do with pelvic organ support, and the motions actually pull the organs into the vaginal space instead of away from it. I am one of many who kegeled like a fiend for many many years, and ended up with multiple prolapses. Please click over to the Blog tab, and put "kegel" into the search box there. You will link to a number of Christine's articles which explain the concepts very well. There is even something which Christine calls "new kegels" which are not kegels at all, but a type of belly rocking that is done in conjunction with correct breathing (inhale and exhale as described on the clip - very essential).

You might want to do more research on this site, possibly read the book again, consider one or more of Christine's DVDs to help you keep the essential message foremost in your mind. - Surviving

I just watched Michelle Kenway's Beginners Kegels Workout for Women. Kegels have not been shown by research to be helpful for anything but the mildest of prolapses.

However, if you decide that you want to do Kegels for other reasons, like I do, it is essential to put a decent sized pillow under the pelvis if you lie on your tummy. This puts your lumbar curve in place and gives your pelvic organs some room at the front to move forwards and away from the pelvic floor, so they won't fall back and into the vagina. She also talks about doing them while lying on your side. I have found lying on my side works well (half of the total number on one side, then flip over and do the other half on the other side), because the belly can fall forward, again allowing room for the pelvic organs to come forward with the belly.

It is all a bit of a personal 'suck it and see' trial for me, to see what difference Kegels make to my urge continence, as a byproduct of increasing sexual enjoyment. I am doing about 70 a day at the moment, which I would not recommend to others for prolapse improvement. I have noticed that I do get some urge incontinence sometimes but it is not significantly worse than before, and is usually after with coffee consumption or a long car journey, ie irritation or having a full bladder and not noticing it, and some increase in intraabdominal pressure with getting out of the car and carrying things inside.

In summary, don't do Kegels flat on your back or flat on your tummy because both will push your organs back into the vaginal space, and contracting the pelvic floor may actually push them down! If you want to read about my proof of this use the Search box and look for "chopstick". Yes, you read it right.

Once you become more knowledgable about pelvic organ support in the Whole Woman model you will be able to tweak almost any exercise to not aggravate your prolapses.

Just remember that classical Kegels are not a part of WW exercises, but you might be able to tweak them so they won't do any damage.

Louise

Potash, I hope you will read Louise's post carefully and understand that she is trying kegels for urge incontinence and sexual enjoyment. In addition, she has been doing the WW work for a decade and is a certified WW practitioner; she is well trained in how to "tweak" anything to avoid negative implications for prolapse. You on the other hand, seem like you might be doing a number of things that are working against posture and might not be getting the full benefits of what this posture correction is capable of doing. A cystocele is quite manageable with this posture work, and a lot of conscious walking in posture is the best way to train your body and mind. Walking in very mindful WW posture is one of the best things you can do. Don't try throwing too many solutions at this problem until you have truly given the posture work a chance. I discovered my 'celes at 60 and was into my second year of diligent work before I started to truly understand what this is all about! - Surviving