So Confused

Sorry that I cannot answer most of your questions but the heavy grocery lifting might have contributed to some of your problem. It was heavy lifting that ulcerated my insides when I use a pessary...I was quite a mess so as a result of that and this site, I no longer wear a pessary. Two days ago, I lifted a 3 year old child and carried him upstairs...I completely forgot about not doing heavy lifting. As a result, a bit later and all day yesterday, I thought it was the end of me!! My bulge was so horrid and I was burning so I spent some of the day lying down. I was so bad that at that weak moment, I thought I might have to ask for another pessary. Thankfully, today I am much better. In case you do not know this already....avoid heavy lifting, especially if you have to carry the items a long way.

with the self examination, I'm afraid being. For the burning, are you lubricating regularly with olive oil, or coconut oil, or vitamin e cream or even vaseline? Maybe, you are starting peri menopause ampisellifers. If so, you might find estrogen is not the way to go. Christine has talked about this only recently. Perhaps you could track her last couple of posts. Maybe, think in terms of red clover. You can have it as a tea or in capsule. The honey ( a pea sized bit only) is placed in the vulva in order to return good bacteria, as such it is not consumed by the mouth and put through all the digestion process, and so it should not cause thrush. You would recognize thrush for its white ooze.
The pressure in your back passage could either be a rectocele or the uterus pressing down on your rectum.

to go and see your doc. With the onset of peri menopause (early stages of menopause) there is a thinning of the lining of the vagina and vulva because of the shifting levels of hormones especially estrogens and this can lead to burning in those areas. I am not wholly sure if your burning is due to just lack of lubrication, but I know lubrication can cool things and make it more comfortable for you. If you are dry then your prolapses will rub as all these lady parts naturally do. In the absence of natural lubrication as occurs when you are young and/or healthful then this is the new normal for you and it is wise to make some adjustment just as if you have dry hands in winter you apply some hand cream. I mean it is possible for your urine to be acidic and your vulva less acidic and therefore sensitive to urine and it may sting or irritate your vulva. It is also possible that you eat some foods which you are intolerant to and they cause inflammation. It is quite natural as you grow towards middle age to become less tolerant to certain food. This intolerance can be experienced in any number of ways; bloating in the stomach or itching or irritation to the vulva area, eczema and so on. This is in part why the WW view of the world involves not just posture and toilet technique but diet as well. It can also be due to a UTI, or as you suggested thrush, scented soaps or toilet paper or varginismus. It won't hurt to look at all these things, but see what doc says. good luck.

Diet is a very personal thing; one woman’s delight is another’s acne outbreak type of thing or bloated tummy. It really is a matter of eating well and then looking for any connections between what you eat and any flare-ups. Keeping a diary of the foods you eat and noting any subsequent flare ups or calmings is one approach. Another way is to eliminate all known foods that can cause inflammation like nuts, gluten, dairy and seeing whether that makes a difference and if it does then slowly reintroducing those foods one at a time and observing if their re-introduction leads to any flare ups. I personally would just discard one food at a time and the first would be sugar. You need to go about it the best way that you feel comfortable with and that suits your lifestyle. Christine in her book ‘Saving the whole woman’ talks about diet. This forum talks about diet all the time. Why not type 'inflammation diet' into the search box on the top left and see whether you can glean something from there that might ring bells.

I just finished reading my note to apismellifera and realised that it is exactly a month ago that I replied to her post. The day I wrote it, I felt better, but ever since then my bulge is worse and getting worse by the day (so it seems). It is about as low as can be and feels much bigger, like a water balloon out of my body. I hope it is true that it cannot actually totally fall out!! I am fine sitting, great lying down but standing and walking it feels heavy and as though everything is about to drop out. Yes, I do ww posture.....all day, in everything I do but I need to drop 5 pounds.

I have a gazelle glider, should I be using it? I have not used it in over a year, thinking that going back and forth might aggravate the bulge which hangs out. I started to go for a walk but turned back because it feels like my entire insides are about to fall out. Since I am not one to be idle all day, I am having a stuggle. I think the lifting of the child started something I cannot reverse. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

Hi osmari. I watched some youtube footage of the Gazelle and it looks really neat. But I have no idea if it's prolapse-friendly or not. As with anything else, the answer to that lies in whether or not you can totally maintain lumbar curvature, and overall how it makes your prolapse feel. If walking is bothering you, you might gently try the Gazelle and see how things feel. One of the women I watched appeared to me to have a rather pronounced lumbar curve herself. I saw some users doing moves involving leaning backwards or forwards that make me cringe a little. I felt my belly tightening as I watched them! Another thing I thought about while watching, was the action of the arms. When I walk, I like mine swinging naturally at my sides or doing the bird-flapping thing. What the arms have to do on the Gazelle seems like it would somehow place more tension in the belly, though I'm not entirely certain why I feel that way. Need some other opinions on this!

Aside from that, lots of firebreathing. Jiggle your organs forward before and after using the toilet. And don't necessarily assume that you are not still making progress towards full assumption of the posture. The big "aha" moment for me came during my second year, when I literally felt my torso had finally "seated" itself over my hip joints, and staying in posture was no longer something I had to tell myself to do. I still do have to tell myself to bend and to lift properly, but standing/walking/sitting is all second-nature now. So please don't give up, because really, this is the only way. - Surviving

Thank you so much for taking the time to look up the Gazelle and for your comments (which I always appreciate). I can maintain the posture and swing my arms instead of holding on to the bars. And YES, before this site, I used to lean back or forward!! Maybe that did contribute to worsening my problem through the years. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will use it a few minutes every second day and see how I am.
.
I am aware that even though I think of wwposture "almost all day long", that I still have to perfect, especially relaxing the belly when I am in major discomfort due to the bulge hanging so low. I tend to tense up worrying the thing will fall out! Thanks also for reminding me about the bending and lifting.

This pop thing can be very worrisome and scary but thanks to this site and your reminders, I draw strength. I am trying to stay away from another pessary so I try appreciate your encouragement through your comments. Thanks again, surviving!

I forgot to ask you, how often do you think I should do the firebreathing and for how long? Also, how many times a day do you think I should use coconut oil on my bulge so it doesn't dry out? I am starting to nauli but I don't think I am doing it correctly. Do I hold my breath while I nauli or try to do the "stomach" breathing while doing it? (I am in the process of re-reading the book.)

Well, Christine suggests working gradually up to 2-5 minutes per day twice a day. She had profound uterine prolapse. I do not..... I have 'celes and the cervix stays inside and I probably only do it for about a minute at a time (morning shower is favorite time) and I can feel the organs move. It's hard work! Someone here, Fab I think, has stressed that you need to get the uterus inside before you start, by whatever means necessary. I like to stop on the inhale and come up slowly while visualizing the organs staying forward in the belly.

Nauli confuses me, and if you have the 3rd Wheel DVD you will find the best demonstration there. The fact that I still have to learn Nauli is a big motivation for me, I feel that I still have an ace in the hole that I can pull out if I ever find that things are getting worse, if I start to feel the cervix coming down. This approach may backfire on me, as prevention should be the goal in my case.

I don't think it matters how often you lubricate the bulge. Keep it as comfy as you can. Coconut oil is nice stuff isn't it? - Surviving

Thank you very much, once more for your answers, and for reminding me to stop on the inhale and slowly get up when F breathing.

Yes, I do like the coconut nut, I use it as a moisturizer on my arms and legs as well.

I shall be by myself in a few weeks so I shall dedicate a large block of time to complete re-reading the book, viewing all the videos, and making a schedule for the exercies, a schedule to which I shall be able to adhere .

Hi Osmari

Sorry to hear of your worsening prolapse. My observation would be that if your bladder and uterus are outside your body, and part of your bladder tool, then they are not inside and resting on your pubic bones. Therefore WW posture is not able to do its job.

Can you get your organs back inside easily? Can you urinate regularly and freely? And can you empty your bladder completely with your bladder inside you?

WW posture will only maintain the positions of your organs if they are in the vicinity and can be tipped away from the vagina. You need to get them into position with firebreathing, or jiggling, or lying down so they can move forward, and establish a more normal configuration in relation to each other. Then you need to keep your belly relaxed and allow your lumbar curve to come forward to reinforce their positions and protect them from intra-abdominal forces created by breathing and moving. And you have to lengthen the front of your body, which will help to tighten all the muscles and fascia holding all your innards in their own places. Otherwise they will fall back and down again. does this make some sense to you?

Thanks so much for your reply. You stated that ww posture is not able to do its job for me. I wondered about that every time I read that someone on the site was helped and could feel the symptoms improving. I often thought I should comment that mine are getting worse and that I thought the posture was not really helping. Now you gave me the answer.

When I stand, the organs come out and when I am home I push them in through my clothing but out they come right back out; when I sit or lie down they automatically go in so sometimes I just lie down on the floor for a few minutes. I used to lie down after every meal for about 5 minutes because after eating, everything descends even more.

I do the jiggling and I also firebreathe several times a day for about a minute and I plan to increase the time slowly. Whenever I bend over I can feel everything go in but just for a few seconds...nothing ever stays in.

I urinate best during the night and first thing in the morning because the organs were "in" all night and the bulge is not yet out; however, during the day, I feel the urge many times with only a bit coming out most of the time. It "works" best if I bend over from the waist in a squatting position because the organs go back in that way and the passage is not blocked by the bulge.

I don't understand what you mean by "..you have to lengthen the front of your body, which will help tighten all the muscles..." Can you please explain how I would do that because I really do need to improve. Sometimes I feel as though my organs are being stretched and are ready to come right out! It is only this site that is keeping me from "freaking out". I do NOT want surgery nor another pessary that do so much damage.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and please clarify the lengthening. I appreciate your knowledge.

I got an idea but will it be more harmful?? Since my organs hang out while standing but go back in when lying down, could I do the firebreathing lying on my back? I tried it a couple of times and while creating the vacuum, I could feel the pull up. OR would I be making my problem worse?

Hi Osmari,
It would be interesting to hear what the ladies say about firebreathing lying down. I like the firebreathing on all fours better than the standing, because my uterus seems to drop into my belly more easily. I have the prolapsed uterus also, but with mine it is my cervix that pops out on bad days. I don't know if I will ever get it up and over the pubic bone as some have, but am happy just to keep it up away from the opening of my vagina right now, and I have been doing this for about 8 months.
The reason I jumped in here is because I have read on here that with some ladies with profound uterine prolapse have used outer garments to help keep things in. A V2 supporter has been mentioned, and one lady even made her own garment, just so she could get through her day.
Just thought you might want to look into that while you are figuring out posture and firebreathing.
Best wishes to you!

Thank you SO much! I just finished looking it up, phoned to get more info but the place is closed so I will call tomorrow. Would it not be great if it worked for me especially when I need to be out of the house for some time and have to be on my feet!? I shall also search on this site. Thanks again!

I hope you find something that works for you! My heart really goes out to you and I wish you the very best!

Osmari, I would venture to say that whatever you are doing lying on your back isn't true firebreathing. Most of us do experience a relief from symptoms when we are lying down; that doesn't mean that we should simply work lying down instead of upright. Not much really happens lying down. The important work is done when we are upright. Firebreathing creates a vacuum effect that sucks the organs up and forward into the lower belly. It is more than just the breathing, though of course, getting the breathing sequence correct is absolutely critical. But if we are trying to coax the organs forward, and rebuild that lumbar curvature that will help to keep them pinned over the pubic bones for (hopefully) longer and longer periods, we are not going to accomplish this lying down.

I do not have a protruding cervix so let's see if someone more experienced wants to correct me if necessary. My understanding is that you need to get that uterus in there before you firebreathe in order for it to do its work. And - Osmari, I will venture to say that I think you have taken Louise's comment a bit too literally. I do not believe she meant that the posture is not going to work for you. I believe she meant that if the cervix is outside then the posture is not able to do its work of pinning the organs in place. That you need to keep working at it all the time. We all do. This isn't a fix and you won't wake up one day with your organs back in place. Fab has described on numerous occasions how one can accomplish getting things all pushed up into place in order for some of these moves to have the best effects. She would be a good person to comment here. - Surviving

Thanks again. It was only today that I tried the firebreathing lying down. I decided to lie down to get the "things" back in for relief. Since I could feel the vacuum and "the things" rising higher while fire breathing in that position, the idea struck me especially since Louiseds stated the organs should be in....and they are in that position :) When doing them the correct way, I do feel the organs going in (although they only stay in while I am bent over) so I do plan to contine to do them properly several times a day. I just wondered if I would cause more harm or if it would matter one way or the other.

(I think I finally know the difference between "bending at the waist" and "bending at the hips". I made an error in the note to Louiseds- I meant to say "bend at the hips".)

I do know that unfortunately there is no quick fix, and believe me, I plan to do the ww posture even though so far I feel it has not relieved my symptoms; as you stated in another thread, the posture is helpful in many other ways.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. If your organs are outside your vulva, then they are 'unreachable' with WW posture because they are below and behind the pelvic floor. It is like trying to pull a dog through a closed dog door by a leash.

Osmari, what I meant by lengthening the front of your body was that our body is designed to be in full extension, with the upper back pretty straight. This lifts the rib cage, and thus the top of the abdominal muscles, ie the rectus abdominus and oblique abdominal muscles, because they are attached to the bottom of the rib cage. If you are able to relax these abdominal muscles when you inhale, your abdomen will swell, downwards and outwards. This is because the diaphragm faces downwards and forwards. When it's dome shape is flattened as it shortens, it comes down and forwards. Then all your abdominal contents, basically intestines, will be pushed downwards and forwards, further stretching these abdominal muscles. As your diaphragm contracts, it pulls the lumbar spine forwards. This will allow your pelvis to tilt forwards. The transverse abdominal muscles expand/lengthen as well . These run sideways, around the body, from the linea alba at the front midline, right around to join the sides of the spine. If you can stretch all these muscles right out you will be able to hold your upper back further back, and allow your pelvis to tilt further forward to counterbalance it. This makes the pubic rami, the 'rails' at the bottom of your pelvis horizontal, instead of sloping backwards. They may even tilt forwards a little. This makes the shelf for your uterus and bladder to sit on. As well as this, when the rib cage lifts and the abdominal muscles stretch out, it also lifts all the fascia inside the pelvis and abdomen, effectively lifting the organs as well.

If your pelvic muscles have shortened by being constantly contracted and shortened, or if you have had slouching posture previously, the only way to make them long again is to stretch them. You can do this by practising diaphragmatic breathing, and exercises like the yoga asana called cobra, or modified cobra.

I think trying a support garment, which will allow your belly to expand, is a good first move, to get your organs at least inside you. As they have been hanging down low the fascia supporting them will now be very loose, so I wouldn't do any kegels with them low. That would be like squeezing or wringing the top of a cheese cloth to make more liquid come out of the cheese.

Osmari, I have recently met a woman whose prolapse is probably as serious as yours, and seen photos of it, taken while she was lying down, semi-propped up, in that obtuse angle thing. In this position her posture must have been slouched, or she couldn't have held the camera. so the organs would have been pushed out to the greatest degree. She has fairly recently had an hysterectomy with sacrospinous fixation, and the vaginal vault has descended so she now has a cystocele as well. She also has now to walk with a stick, because of leg pain, and has further surgery planned. She is not a happy camper. I applaud your efforts to avoid surgery. Nobody can guarantee that WW posture alone will improve POP symptoms, but it is still the major factor in keeping the pubic bones horizontal, and providing this shelf, should you be able to get them inside you again. Our bodies can learn new things. As Surviving says, if you can get your organs to stay inside you, even only momentarily at first, this may be an indication that you can learn how to keep them inside permanently.

Keep up the firebreathing too, but do it standing, or on hands, or elbows, and knees, rather than lying.

I would strongly suggest that several times a week you do at least one of Christine's DVD workouts, one that is at a level that you think you can work at. These will increase your body extension, make you more flexible, and strengthen all the muscles around your hips. This all makes WW posture both easier and more effective. Really, I think you would get a lot of benefit from a consultation with a WW practitioner. There is no doubt that hands on attention will help you to get feedback on what you are doing and not doing. Many a woman has thought she had WW posture all sorted out. A consultation has taken them to a new understanding and a new level of WW posture and improved their symptoms.

Louise

Wow! I cannot thank you enough for the informative note (which I will re-read many times).

Luckily I have not slouched much through the years, however, I did love the recliner which I no longer use, and for my age, I am pretty flexible so that is ONE good thing. I will take your advice and do exercises several times a week. It is quite the co-incidence that you mentioned a consultation with a WWpractitioner because after phoning to get info on the V2 support suggested by Aging gracefully, I checked out the home page on this site and found a WWpractitioner that is a few hours away. I phoned her but she did not reply either so I guess you know I shall be making two important calls tomorrow!

I appreciate you stating not to do kegels with the organs hanging low; I was wondering about that when I was doing one of the videos and my organs would not stay in.

By support garment, did you mean something like the V2?

Once again, thank you so much for taking the time to explain!! What would I do without you thoughtful and caring women!?

Osmari, I think the V2 supporter or some variant of it, is the only one commercially available, though I did see one a few weeks ago designed and marketed by a physiotherapist somewhere in the US. Someone else might remember the name of the garment. Search the Forums for "support garment". You will find quite a few topics and posts about them. Just make sure that it doesn't compress your lower belly. Some are made for prolapse, some for pregnancy. You might even be able to make one to suit out of the wide elastic used for those wide cinch belts that fasten with a long fastener that goes from top to bottom of the belt with a series of little metal buttons that fit in slots, or a twisting mechanism. I saw some of this wide elastic at Spotlight just the other day. There is a post somewhere about that.

THANKS AGAIN!! :)