Retention painful and frightening

Hi Pranachi

How long have you had this painful urinary retention??

I had a similar problem a couple of months ago, but it didn't last long. It almost seems like the stress you're under is causing the muscles to close. To try to solve my problem, I started drinking more water, cranberry juice and other clear fluids. This, of course, increased incontinence, but as you say, incontinence is better than the pain of retention.

If ice works, use the ice as much as you can ... and try to relax.

Seriously ..... I wouldn't want the doctors to try to 'fix it'. It's a guessing game for them as well as for you .... and it's you who have to suffer the consequences if they guess wrong.

I hope this helps ... at least a bit

**HUGS**
w2k

I also wonder if the pain you are experiencing could be due to bladder or kidney stones.

Passing stones has been likened to the pain of childbirth as well.

Another thing I tried that seemed to help, was to relax in a hot bath with epsom salts. I also read a suggestion that, while in the hot bath, drink a urine-stimulating fluid such as sparkling mineral water.

... just thinkin' ...

Hi Pranachi

I have experienced this pain while waiting for an ultrasound many years ago. I had to wait in the waiting room for a long time and was subsequently unable to empty my bladder after the ultrasound. The pain was going right up to my kidneys, which I figured was not good for them either.

I am 60 years old and can hold onto urine all day if I have to. I don't feel like my bladder is full until it is just about popping, and starts to get painful. I would suggest that you simply ensure that you find a toilet every couple of hours if you have been drinking liberally. Don't go more often because your bladder does need to fill up and empty fully. If you never allow it to fill up at all it is not getting the right signals for normal function (and you end up spending your life joining the dots between toilets, which is a bit of a waste of your day.) Also, allowing your bladder to not become overdistended means that it will shrink back and empty better when you do empty it. If my bladder becomes overdistended it is harder for me to empty it completely. It is not as resilient as it used to be. ;-)

Louise

Pranachi, I think it can be really difficult in your situation to make sure you are emptying completely. So at least once a day, I hope you can do something totally relaxing and maybe get down on all fours in a nice warm shower and see if that helps. Stand back up, then try again a few minutes later. I know as Louise says, that when I've been holding it for awhile it is really much harder to let it out. This can easily become a vicious cycle of sorts.

How are you doing with posture? Do you protect your lumbar curvature when driving? You mention having the book and trying the exercises, but you don't mention to what extent you have incorporated the WW posture into your life. The exercises support the posture (assuming you are DOING the exercises in posture). Good luck and hang in there. - Surviving

I have had the same pains and problems that you describe. At one point I found I had a urinary infection and when that was cured by taking uva ursi and getting my body alkaline it helped but still it comes sometimes. I find that pushing my organs up and in as I lean forward, not sitting on the toilet but standing up over it, i can release the urine if I am patient. Also a warm wash cloth applied over my urethra and labia helps as well. Then when the urine comes it comes without control so I have to be ready. As I have done the exercises my pain has lessened, though riding in a car is the worst time because I don't have the freedom to go when I need to. I also put a pillow in the small of my back now when I ride in the car to keep the posture and that helps as well. The feeling is discouraging and hard to interpret but the pain of surgery is difficult and can't be taken back afterwards leaving you with no help except whatever the doctors can do. Don't give up. It is only for a season.

My problem with this pain and urinary retention occurred at a time when I had to take a 5-hour road trip. I had just found out about the ww posture & breathing, and I decided to do as 'sav' has suggested: I took along a lumbar cushion and made sure that I could sit in ww posture behind the wheel.

I also made sure that I took 'washroom breaks' every 2 hours. (I tried to drink clear fluids only -- and started drinking about 1/2 hour before a planned washroom break)

This whole procedure seemed to work well for me and I haven't had the same problem since

As dear Surviving always reminds us, ww posture is the key. If we can learn to LIVE in the posture, many of our problems will work themselves out.

:-)
w2k

I am so sorry to read that you are going through such pain. I am going through a tough period myself at the moment but not as difficult as yours. I cannot help you but I was thinking that perhaps you could address your situation to Christine. I see that Lanny is on line perhaps if he reads this he could get her to respond to you as your situation seems urgent.

You are in my heart. I know how scary our situations can be so I hope you can get help here.

Pranachi, I would go a step further and suggest that you should book a phone consult with Christine, as you have some things going on that are beyond the scope of this forum. With the failure rate for prolapse repair being so high, and with all the problems that the surgeries can cause.....you will not be better off and it is more than irresponsible of your doctor to use this scare tactic. Please have a consult. - Surviving

Hi Pranachi,

I haven't been able to respond because I'm overwhelmed trying to wrap up this hips project.

Please understand, everyone, that when you see Lanny's name in the Who's Online list, he is registering new members, not hanging out on the forums! He is slammed with the technical work of making all this happen.

Pranachi, even with a moderate cystocele, the back part of the bladder that has fallen back and down is now lower than the entrance into your urethra. If I were you, I'd be doing everything possible to move your bladder forward - and we've covered a lot of the possibilities in this work: posture (particularly sitting postures for you!), hands and knees, forearms and knees, firebreathing in all these positions including standing and leaning over, pelvic rocks, hip hinging....all these are in the book and dvds.

You haven't said anything about your diet - but hopefully you have discovered that coffee, chocolate, tea, artificial colors and flavors should be rigorously avoided in a condition like yours. I had a latte day before yesterday and I'm still feeling the effect on my bladder. I have lichen sclerosis too and must be diligent about honey and vinegar - instructions for which are in the WWWay to VulvaVaginal Health dvd. It's really all about the populations of microorganisms. Lactobacilli are what keep the lining our intestines, bladder, vulva, vocal cords and probably a lot else normalized. Cannot emphasize the importance of this.

Time to be alert! It sounds like you've developed a serious condition that cannot be treated surgically.

Christine

P.S. I am beginning to suggest to clients - particularly hips clients - that they begin to limit activities such as driving as much as possible. I know! It is our independent, freedom way, but driving is also causing havoc to the human body.

Well, at 63, my dependence on daily driving is not going to be ending any time soon. I will continue to work full time for as long as I'm able and as long as they'll have me. I will continue to care for my elderly mom for as long as she's around. And I'm sure I am only one of millions who are in this situation.

So rather than allow myself to be alarmed by Christine's P.S., I'm taking definite action. Protecting lumbar curvature while driving is one of those things I'm spotty on, mainly because I rarely drive more than a dozen miles in a single sitting. No more. From now on I will support my lower back and be mindful of body position every time. I hear you, Christine! - Surviving

Pranachi, it doesn't actually sound like you are doing anything about your prolapse. Reading the book, trying the exercises, is that it? This is a permanent and life-long postural correction and it will impact all areas of your health. Please don't wait any longer. Doing something is better than living in pain and fear. What do you have to lose? - Surviving

HI Pranachi

Christine did mention the DVD The Whole Woman Way to Vulval Vaginal Health. This DVD is the one she made after her LS subsided. It is all about how to calm inflammation in your body.

If your bladder capacity is 250ml right now, then that is all you have to work with. The other diagnoses, Graves Disease and IC, indicate that you have major inflammation problems in your body. You owe it to yourself to address these.

Your doctor may be rather dramatic and may have told you some scary things, but at least also told you that prolapse surgery is only gong to be 60% effective and will have to be repeated later. This is only honest. After all doctors provide services to fix things that go wrong. It is their business. They can often be very helpful, but this one has you in a right state of worry. Worry and distress in themselves will make you more sensitive, and have you hunched over in self protection.

I would like to see you doing something about the degree of worrying that you are doing. Getting your posture organised so you walk, stand and sit proudly, like Queen Pranachi, doing what you can yourself, taking back responsibility for your health, and having faith in your own body will help you to do this. Take some time for meditation each day, to get yourself out of worry's clutches, and show yourself a more calm space where your worries can come into your mind and then you can just quietly dismiss them while you are meditating.

You do say something about your diet. There is a lot of diet information in the Vulval Vaginal Health DVD. You may also have some food sensitivities. Yoghurt may be one of them. Tomatoes and oranges are not necessarily bad for you, unless you already have evidence of that.

Hope this gives you something to work with.

Louise

Hi Pranachi,
Gosh it does sound like you've been through a lot and it's not surprising you've felt rock bottom sometimes. It probably comes as no surprise that many many of the women on this forum have also felt really low and at a loss - and I'm sure, like me, their hearts go out to you.

One of the main keys to this way of working is the posture. In order for it to be effective, women have to make the WW posture their default posture; the one they return to whenever they remember.

The exercises help women to develop the tone; strength and flexibility, required to do the posture and maintain the posture as much as possible. It takes time and patience. However we do have time on our hands - the rest of our lives to develop this work.

Slow down - one step at a time... Stress will only help to exacerbate your symptoms. You need to move from fight and flight mode to relaxed mode, from red light to green light, from scared to relaxed... I know - it can sound crazy in the circumstances, but it's true.

One step at a time. Invest in the WW vulva dvd and view Christine's research and thoughts. Look up Rick Hanson's website; for words of wisdom about ways of enhancing peace, calm, joy and happiness, (he offers a wonderful free and short weekly letter on this topic). Keep breathing! Lengthen the exhale for a few long, slow, relaxed breaths. Do this 3 times any time you start to be anxious. Follow a WW exercise session daily if possible. Stand, sit, kneel, live in the posture (change the posture, change the prolapse is Christine's anthem). Put a pillow behind your lumbar back in the car and maybe one under you if you have a 'bucket seat'. Maybe take the train/bus if that's possible. Find a way to smile, laugh, give, love each day. Weirdly, if you go through the motions, eg of smiling then you actually feel better! (Beware plastic surgery!). Be as healthy and happy as possible physically and psychologically.

Sometimes it feels like there's nothing we can do - but actually, that's just us in a stuck horrible place. In reality there's a lot we can do to help ourselves. But it takes time, it takes patience and compassion. You've been through a lot, you're going through a lot. Thankfully there are lots of things you can do and try. But give it time, it takes repetition over a concerted period. I'm very much better 2 years after a debilitating uterine prolapse with accompanying sciatic like pains down the backs of my legs and pains down my inner thighs. I spent a lot of time crying and lying on my bed. That experience makes each day much more of a joy than I ever appreciated before.

Wishing you love and joy and improvement with movement.
wholewomanukx

You have a lot of information here to read from members since you last posted, who have all given you good advice to consider. I hear your weariness and approaching panic, so I fear you may turn off at the variety of suggestions given. So while I hesitate to add confusion, I hope you won't mind my asking a couple of questions. Are you seeing only one doctor for this? What kind of doctor is he/she? GYN, uro-gyn, some other speciality? I'll tell you why I ask. You said in your introductory post that your doctor wanted to do a laproscopic uterosacral ligament suspension. Later you said he feared you would have kidney damage if you didn't do something about the prolapse. I haven't found this to be a common concern or complaint among forum members. Please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. I understand there may be an enhanced probability of UTI's with retention, but I would think complications commonly carrying through to the kidneys would be unusual. I wonder if the doctor is focusing on your not heeding his advice for surgery and is failing to find out what is causing the scar tissue and further bleeding in your bladder. You discomfort in your bladder seems to be your first concern right now....and rightly so. The methods described in Christine's publications and videos along with the anecdotal info and practitioners' descriptions on the forum should give you enough help to be able to completely empty your bladder. But the problem you describe being the discomfort of feeling the urge along with spasms at a certain point sounds like something going on with your bladder that may not be so badly compounded by prolapse. I hope I'm making sense and not completely off base about this, but it seems to me that consultation with another doctor would help (if you're only seeing the one for both prolapse and urinary tract problems). Perhaps another doctor would be more willing to get to the root of the problem of what caused the scar tissue and how that might be solved without another recommendation of surgery (hydrodistention). Maybe looking into the contraindications on all the antibiotics you've been on recently could help provide an answer. Maybe after some time off the antibiotics your system will recover on its own. Maybe there's another, simpler answer that's being overlooked.

Meanwhile, I would not discourage you at all from following the advice of the experienced women here to help you find what relief you can from understanding and practicing WW posture, learning what foods and drinks to avoid, and trying whatever methods others have used to find some comfort.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if doctors could study, diagnose, and treat us as well as they claim to be trained to and/or as well as they are paid for their services? It's impossible, of course, for you to give up. There has to be a solution, and I hope it's found sooner rather than later. I do wish you the best.

Sometimes, Pranachi, we are forced to sit with ourselves in hope of intuiting what is in our best interest. Urologists have their own take on female pelvic health, which is often as blind and destructive as the rest. Running off to doctor after doctor does not seem to be a strategy for healing. Yes, the Right Doctor would be wonderful, but where to find her/him. I wish I could wrap up my herb teacher and send her your way. Or help you swallow just the right plant ally to show you the way to bladder health. It is a constriction in your consciousness that has allowed this dis-ease in your body. It is the same with dis-sease in the heart...people cannot see what they cannot feel.

I pray you find your way.

Christine

I reread all the posts here and did some other reading on interstitial cystitis and bladder spasms as well as info on contraindications and warnings for Levoquin and Keflex. I'm sorry if I frustrated you with my suggestion to try another doctor. Actually, your description of your symptoms and the diagnostic procedures that have been done match the standard protocol so you're probably getting pretty fair care (except for the possible use of a scare tactic to get you into surgery). I found there are also several possible reasons for lesions that cause scar tissue in the bladder and there is ongoing research, so my idea that a doctor should be able to come up with better information is an error.

Maybe the panic was more mine; the mention of numbness in your lower extremities concerned me. I did find that one of the adverse reactions reported with Levoquin is peripheral neuropathy (including numbness). The natural response would be, of course, that you're no longer taking it so it's unlikely the cause; however, it was described as irreversible neuropathy (while one of the reactions with Keflex is reversible peripheral neuropathy). So you may be able to rule it out or think it worth investigating when you consider the timing of symptoms vs. when you took the medication. Besides that, it could be related to the way you're sitting, sitting more, etc. I went through a period of several weeks when I was sitting in a lecture situation day after day for long hours and had a lot of trouble with numbness in my legs. Circumstances changed; problem resolved.

Christine is really on-point with the idea of being still with yourself and 'intuiting' what is in your best interest. Then, if you do so, don't dismiss or disregard what seems to be silly or too simple but think it through. I hope you can catch a breath and begin to understand how and why focusing on this posture really does help.

There have been times when under great stress I've found it difficult to focus and get my mind to get hold of anything. I can look at a paragraph in a book and read it over and over again, having no idea what I'm reading. It has taken a deliberate intention and determined effort to relax and read comprehensively. It's not a lack of intelligence; it's a lack of peace. I wish for you peace and some freedom from pain so you can make good decisions.

.........is just another way that we sometimes refer to Whole Woman posture. I wish you would learn it. I really believe that your healing must start with that. - Surviving

...and we mustn't forget the healing power of raw, local honey. Honey is extremely soothing for the bladder and if taken stirred into a small amount of water before bed actually causes cells to take up more water so that you don't have to urinate so much at night. Hoping you get the Estrace problem worked out.

I was referred for a transvaginal ultrasound to see how my kidneys were going. One of the things about prolapse is that the bladder falls back and lower down. They are worried that the ureters won't be long enough and might become stretched, possible squashing them amongst other organs and preventing urine coming down to the bladder. Then it backs up and can damage the kidneys. Mine were fine. WW posture is the way you can keep your bladder more forward and higher.

Many women live for decades with stage 3 or 4 prolapse and don't seem to have kidney problems, but they are obviously not leading an active military lifestyle and have a lot of control over what the do and don't do, and how they do it.

It might be worth investigating just to calm their fears, so they will stay off your back with their scare tactics. Remember that these doctors working for the military are trying to keep service folk physically able and healthy. They are literally paid to find things that are wrong and to fix them, using routine medical and surgical means.

Eventually you might need to ask yourself if you have more allegiance to the US military than you have for your own body. This is a question that only you can answer.

Louise

I don't know if are allowed to mention things that work for us personally. If you are interested in improving your diet try googling Eat to Live. Dr. Fuhrman, is an md who like Christine, it seems is all for the natural way, in terms of taking the best care of ourselves through diet. He has worked with thousands of patients to heal them of their inflamation issues. Heart disease, diabetes. He advocates a whole food plant based diet. It's not a cure all, I know that but just another spoke in the tire to help you along with WW.

I have read Eat to Live, and bought Dr. Fuhrman's cookbooks as well. There is a lot of merit in what he says, but I personally found his diet to be too restrictive for me. I could really see it helping people who need to lose a lot of weight for health reasons and for inflammatory problems.
I don't think there is a diet book I haven't read or tried out! Lol!
I have lately been just experimenting with the information from many of these sources to find what is right for me. Of course the biggest is cutting out refined white flour, sugar, and processed foods.
I am still on the fence about the whole gluten thing. I don't disagree that there are people out there with gluten sensitivities, I just don't think I am one of them. I found that if I make my own whole wheat bread with all natural ingredients, I don't get bloated or have any other symptoms that otherwise seem to have, but if I eat store bought bread, instant bloating. I think the over processing of our food has made us way more sensitive to it than we used to be.
My skinny man husband is my biggest experiment, because everything I try shows up in him right away. When I started using sugar and flour alternatives, he lost weight and felt a lot better. When he tried to stop eating bread with me, he got terribly sick. I love to eat bulgur because it gives me the smoothest nicest bowel movements. It causes him to have diarrhea and bloody stool!
Anyway, it has been an ongoing dietary challenge to find wholesome food for both of us to be able to enjoy together.
Lately enzymes have been on my mind. I think a lot of us don't have the proper good bacteria in our guts because of out modern eating habits. I tried several different types of probiotics for several years with no noticeable results, but then I started a little fermenting this summer, and found that fermented food, honey, and yogurt were really good sources of these missing enzymes. My favorite was the beet kvass. It is a fermented beet drink that really made my intestines do there job correctly. It is really hard to describe the feeling, but whatever bloat causing foods I ate was greatly diminished by having this drink everyday.
Guess I just wanted to say, it is really an experiment out there to find what is right for each individual.
It's no wonder for, at least those of us who live in the U.S., that we are so confused about what to eat. We have so many cultures to choose from. I'll have Italian tonight, and then some Greek tomorrow. People from other countries that are set in their cultural way of eating tend to be healthier than us, even those skinny French people who eat all the butter and cream!
Lately, I have really been working on trying to be more of a localvore. Eating what is available, seasonaly for my area. This will be my biggest challenge yet. I am actually going to go do a work share at a local farm next year to get started. Wish me luck!

Interesting read Aging Gracefully. Makes it hard to cook when you have to factor in how the food is going to affect each member in the household and what each needs to optimally nourish them. I too would love to learn to cook using more locally grown foods. Such an amazing difference in taste between the Farmers Market and Wally-World. Bought some little potato's from the Farmers Market and you could actually taste the earth...sounds weird, best I can explain it though, not like the superchain food markets...they actually had flavor. Have been trying different types of squash...can't get the rest of my tribe to eat it. About to throw up my hands and cook for me and let them run off to the burger joint. I'm that weird lady in the veggie aisle smiling at all the beautiful colors and breathing deeply in the wonderful smells. Will have to check into beet kvass and look into fermented foods. Best of luck at the workshare next year. Sounds like fun.

If you want a fabulous very nutritious squash, you should try kabocha. I actually found out about that one in The Kind Diet by Alicia Silverstone. Lol! It actually makes a delicious creamy stew, if you are into that. A few years ago it couldn't be found, now it is every where.
As far as the beet kvass goes, I was making it during the summer when I could get fresh local beets. I don't really want to use the beets in the grocery store. Don't know what's on them or how fresh they are, and these beets sit in water on the counter for a few days. The fresher, the more enzymes.
Here is the one I found that worked great if anyone is interested: http://thenourishingcook.com/how-to-make-fermented-beet-kvass/
If this link is not allowed, please strike it off.

Thanks AG...will check out both books. Will definitely try the kabocha squash. Have a little Delicata Squash sitting on the counter for Friday when my family eats their pizza - it is suppose to have a semi-sweet corn-like flavor. Have not tried this one yet. So many varieties to choose from, oh my! I had a grandma who grew beets and they were the best, and again, you could taste the earth. She'd pickle them too, in the fridge somehow, not like regular canning, tasty little suckers. Okay, now I may have to find a workshare too ;-) Would be nice to know where and how they're grown as well.

AZ

Actually had the delicata, very sweet and delicious! Your grandma probably used a sugar and vinegar recipe for the beets. You can do that with pickles too. Probably no enzymes in this process, but I agree those were yummy. I remember by grandma pickling crab apples. Sweet and cinamony! Brings back memories!!

Looks like we are both old enough to remember when food had taste and families eating together was a joyful thing (for the most part). Having a Norman Rockwell moment going on here. Everything now is covered in cheese and tastes like either sugar, salt or vegetable oil with no hint of what the real food is. Would like to use my tastebuds again before I start losing them :-) You're spot on about the sugar and vinegar for the beets. My son-in-law grew up on burgers and fries, won't touch veggies or most fruit. We all live under the same roof so cooking is rough but am trying to get the grandkids to eat better. Maybe if it is something they grew themselves? Always worth a try.
AZ

I did that with my children, and my daughter is doing that with her kids too. They just love pulling something out of the garden and eating it right there! They are also more prone to eating something if they can help prepare it in the kitchen too.
Good luck to you! That has to be hard.

Did you edit your last post? I thought it was a good analogy. Oh the hassels of speaking in a "politically correct world". Well, I liked it and it is so true ;-)
AZ

Ya, I did. Didn't want to offend those that do...

Okie dokie! Just checkin...I'm a retired medical worker and ex air force brat, so you don't have to worry about offending me. Thanks again for the recipe leads, will definitely check them out after dinner...I'm fixing fish tonight. That disturbance you hear in the Universe is my family groaning. I bought them tartar sauce and there's a bottle of ketchup in the fridge. The cook has spoken. Have a great night!
AZ