"DOWN THERE" FOR WOMEN with Katy Bowman, M.S.

Since akasha has never introduced herself, I am assuming this is a marketing call on Katy Bowman’s behalf.

I have watched this dvd and from my perspective it holds no value whatsoever for women with pelvic organ prolapse and urinary incontinence. As much as Katy likes to flaunt her education (a master’s degree) as a “biomechanical scientist”, what she espouses is pure convention. She frames the body as a “human machine” and states that the core of the problem in women with prolapse is a pelvic floor that “is not contracting correctly”. The exercises she provides are: a couple of runner’s type calf stretches, a hip extension, sideways walking, squeezing a yoga block between her knees, and lying on her back with legs extended. She has joined the stop-tucking-the-tailbone bandwagon, but does not explain how to do this. In other places on her website she gives various instructions including placing most of the weight on the heels.

Katy has coined herself “queen of down-under.” However, she hasn’t a clue how the pelvis works, how prolapse occurs, or what to do about it.

Christine

Yes, sounds like a PR piece (spam) and same old story of doing the same old exercises that probably contributed to getting us in this situation to begin with. Thanks for the post, Christine.

I do have Katy's DVD as well as Christine's book. Katy's DVD helped my hip so much with the stretching that for the first time in years I am free of pain. But, I think as far as the prolapse, not much help. I am learning the posture and doing quite well with it. I intend to do anything and everything I can to help my body and avoid surgery.

Hi Akasha, Since we only have the typed word as communication on these Forums it is easy to assume wrongly.

How are you going with the DVD Akasha? And how are you going with the WW posture and other techniques? Only you can decide what works for your own body. Colorburst did solve a hip problem with Katy's DVD quite unexpectedly. I think these DVD materials either sell themselves or not with the results they bring.

Louise

I don't know if this is double posting or not. I was diagnosed with bladder prolapse today. My question is, will Katy's DVD s do any harm to someone with prolapse?

I myself would not use it. Katy has a bit of a different view of posture and prolapse. You can search for posts on this forum using the search box, as she has been discussed plenty of times. Including this very discussion, which includes comments by Christine herself.

If you have come here in search of prolapse management, you might want to do more reading about Whole Woman! Which won't be hard, since you are on the Whole Woman website! Go to the Resources tab, then to Videos, and watch the first video on the page, called Whole Woman Approach to Pelvic Organ Prolapse. That will get you started. - Surviving

Yeah, I searched and read the discussions about Katy, thanks. I realize that some people don't think it would do any good, I was just wondering if these same people thought it would do any harm if someone wanted to try it. I'm trying to get a broad opinion on the topic of prolapse, pros and cons of different view points, since I am just starting my search in the area.

Your question as to whether Katy's posture or exercises would do any harm is best addressed to Katy herself after all she is the expert on her method and is well placed to advise you. We on this site have found Christine's approach to prolapse works well for us and as surviving has commented above Katy's method is different. We don't tend to play around with different approaches once we have made a commitment to WW and find it satisfactory as pursuing it is a full-on process. If you are attracted to Katy's approach then you could look further into it. Good on you for seeking out as much information as you can about prolapse. Any questions you have on Christine's WWposture and general approach to managing prolapse please bring them forward. We will be more than happy to answer them.

Fab is right of course, but if you already have that DVD and you want Whole's Woman's opinion on whether the instructions and exercises on it are OK or not, and the information above doesn't answer your question, then you can take it to a WW practitioner for viewing and consultation. - Surviving

I guess my question is more broad than just Katy's DVD exercises. I don't have Katy's DVD, I have another program called MuTu Mama, that I bought in haste and out of fear, that now I wish I had researched more. So that's the perspective that I'm coming from as I'm still researching into pelvic organ prolapse. I'm very interested in what WW has to offer. I'm reading the forums at least an hour a day and trying to learn as much as I can. But I can search the forum for 'kegels' and find pages full of posts that have several comments each. It takes time! :) I don't have time to assimilate and decide on everything immediately, but I do have prolapse as we speak that I would like to try to improve now as I am learning, so I'm trying to find things that are -'can't hurt, might help' type things as I go along to try to get started on stabilizing/ possibly improving my prolapse without waiting to do anything for weeks/ months to research it.

I do not have STWW book or DVD as I am not spending anymore money until my husband comes home and we can talk about this, and I have his perspective on the matter of treatment options. My emotions tend to drive me into a panic during times like this. Consulting with a practitioner about every DVD that interests me would not be an option as I assume that could get very expensive and I would also like to broaden my question to include exercise DVDs not specifically targeted to POP and to life in general.

So my question is, (and maybe there is no general answer) is there anyway to find a way to incorporate the WW posture (which I have been using, btw :) and other (non-kegel) exercises that are supposed to help with prolapse, or even into just general exercises/ videos just to stay active, keep in shape, etc. Maybe the STWW book addresses posture in every situation? I hope I'm being clear. For example, if I wanted to do low impact aerobics- just stepping around and moving arms and legs, no jumping etc., could I do that in WW posture and, as far as anyone can say, be okay? Does that make sense? I know every prolapse, and every body is different, I'm just speaking in general terms here. I'm trying to incorporate things that I am finding in my research as I go along that I feel will do no harm. That's why I'm not doing the 100 kegel/ day that my dr. said to do, because I have found enough info from various sources to make me wary of them.

I realize every DVD is different, so there might not be an answer, but the gist of my thinking is, how can I apply WW principles to other areas of exercise and life in general? Maybe I'm asking an impossible question, maybe the WW book would answer these questions. I get what you are saying that this forum is for WW stuff but life is more than just one DVD of exercises and I'm still on my journey of learning about this. If no one can answer, that's fine too, I get it, it's a complicated question. :) Maybe there is no answer. I'm not buying the book for at least two weeks, but in the mean time, life goes on. Any advice would be awesome. So anyway, that's my 'updated' question. Thanks. :)

OK, I misunderstood, I thought that you already had the DVD and were wondering what WW thought of the exercises on it. I don't know that anyone here has ever "reviewed" it from WW perspective, though we do know something about KB's approach, which isn't the absolute worst in some ways, but does not go nearly far enough with posture and she also has a very typical and inaccurate conception of "pelvic floor" - as if it's just muscles that keep everthing from falling out!

Yes, not only can you incorporate posture into everything you do, but you MUST! This means you have to learn it and practice it all the time until it becomes second nature. I was into my second year before I could go about my day without constant reminders to myself. Even now I have to stop and correct sometimes, when I bend and lift.

There are plenty of descriptions of the posture on this forum and website. I don't have time right now to make a proper response to all the parts of your post, but I and/or someone else will be on later. Relax the belly, pull the chest up strongly, keep the shoulders down (but not pulled back). When you do this, the lumbar curvature will take care of itself and you will be well on your way to getting those organs forward into the relaxed belly and pinned over the pubic bones. This is the essence of the work, and it's something you'll do for the rest of your life. Not a cure.....it's maintenance and it works. You can go back to your life without the panic and fear. More later - glad to have you here!! - Surviving

Thank you. Any comments whenever you have time would be appreciated! :)

Hi Lynsey,
There is more than just one DVD of Christine's work, and there is also exercises in the book. There is the first aid for prolapse which was the first, and then 3 yoga DVDs. All the the exercises that Christine developed are meant to strengthen the muscles to help hold the posture. The posture is the most important aspect of whole woman. Once ww posture is learned and well established, other and many activities can be added as long as they are done in whole woman posture. There is also techniques that are very helpful in helping to get our organs back up into us that we like to use. Jiggling and firebreathing are a couple techniques that are fabulous!
Getting the book and DVDs has saved me. I don't think twice about the money I spent on them. I just tell myself doctor visits and surgery cost a whole hell of a lot more.
It is hard to just let yourself trust in something you don't fully understand, but trying this is non invasive and self disciplined. I simply thought it couldn't hurt to try it, and am so glad I did.
This is not a cure, it is maintenance for those of us that agree with Christine about surgery.
Keep reading, and I hope at some point you can find what most of what we have in whole woman.

Thank you for your response. I hadn't realized there were several DVDs- that's awesome. I think what Christine says makes sense. I'm all for non-invasive. And at this point, if I could just get the prolapse to stop progressing and keep it where it is for life, that would be awesome! Some people do experience their prolapses improving, with various methods, so I want to explore all my options. I guess I'm just afraid of missing something else that could help me as well since I'm still new at this. I'm terrified of doing something to make the situation worse, so I figured, maybe I could combine the the WW posture with other activities/ exercises/ DVD's that did nothing that was against WW 'principles' aka sit-ups and kegels and things like that, if nothing else than for my peace of mind so I can feel like I am doing everything I possibly can to help myself while at the same time being very careful to not make it worse. Just trying to take it slowly and carefully and thoroughly. Anyway, thanks for your input!

From everything I understand doing this and reading the forum for a year now, sit ups and kegels are two of the worst things you can do for prolapse, so trying to combine those with whole woman will only set you up for failure.
Getting a really good understanding of what whole woman is all about would be the first best thing you could do for yourself. Just having an understanding of where our organs are really suppose to reside, up over the pubic bone in the lower belly, has been amazing for those of us that have learned this fact.
Practicing whole woman concepts by themselves has been plenty enough for me to do this past year.

Hi Linsey,
You might want to call a few libraries and see if they have Christine's book. Sometimes if they don't they will order it from another branch. It is such a wonderful overview of all types of prolapse and includes all the exercises to get started strengthening your whole body. I really think if I hadn't read the book, I might still be searching. WW Protocol takes persistence and dedication and endurance. I started with the posture, then moved on to the beginning exercises, then after 3 months made an appointment with a practitioner and was surprised that I didn't have things quite as perfect as I thought I did. After that session I really started to make progress ..the posture sounds simple but is very precise and requires constant correction in the beginning until your body accepts it as your 'new' normal. If you decide to try WW you need to put all your attention to it . Floating around and taking dribs and drabs from too many other programs just has a tendency to water down your progress. If you decide to go with WW and give it your all, you will soon know if it works for you or not and no harm done if you decide it's not for you. But after you read the "Saving the Whole Woman" book, you will have a lot of answers to your questions. Good luck and may you find what is best for your highest good.

I wanted to add that I also did a lot of research on prolapse, but I always kept finding myself coming back here. Christine work is so thorough and well thought out that it is hard to argue, for me anyway, that any other approach would be beneficial to me.

I also find that the DVD "Down There for Women" is just one piece of the package. Fortunately I've been able to piece things together by reading Katy's blog, book & FB page. FWIW, the exercises are to help achieve the posture so that the gluts start working & become strong in order to help the pelvic floor. They have helped me tremendously along with plenty of walking.

Still flitting from one possibility to another? We appreciate you want to be helpful and add to the store of knowledge here, but I think it was explained previously that there are some essential differences between Katy and WW. You understand if there are essential differences then we can't say ok take that from here and this from there: Ignore what Christine says about Kegels but do her posture or something similar. It's not a matter of being sticklers, but trying to work within a complete discipline which Christine has gone to a lot of trouble to develop. So that is why I have answered your post, not to admonish, but to try to explain something that people new to the issues don't always get. Once you understand why we do things a certain way then it's up to you to decide what you do. Until then it is our role on here to point you to where we are.