Strengthening the vagina, what is possible?

Interesting! The tantra book described the structure as concentric muscle rings stacked on top of each other, but I couldn't feel any evidence of that in my attempts to get the muscles to respond. Spirals oughta do the same thing, though!

I've only lost 40 lbs so far, with 20 more to go- and not much of that has been abdominal fat yet. I'm one of those persons who carries most of their weight in buttocks, hips and thighs and that's where the most dramatic change has been. I don't think I've lost enough to really change interabdominal pressure much... My theory was that with the loss of 40 lbs of fat cells, that my estrogen level might have dropped considerably over the past 8 months. I'm 43 and probably starting to get some hormone drop anyway, I just figured this sudden loss of fat-produced estrogen might have triggered the sudden worsening. Kind of like simulated menopause!

That Nichols and Randall study is definitely something to keep in mind, though. Those last excess 20 lbs of mine will probably take a higher percentage of fat from the abdominal cavity than previously- so if I hadn't started workng on this, I'd run a big chance of getting worse as I get smaller! Whereas I'd have expected the situation to get better, as the pressure in the abdomen gets less. Very strange. Oh well, I'll keep an eye on it.

Thanks! :)

Christine,
I thought you were talking about interabdominal fat, which hasn’t changed much on me yet. The spot you are talking about, in the sit bones area, has dropped in size quite a bit. It feels rather bony down there compared to the considerable padding I used to have! I suppose I have lost whatever support I had in that area, and that was probably what did trigger my latest descent of the cystocele. OK. Past that hurdle… it’s good to know why.

Louise,
The perineometer is actually encouraging. I only use it once a week to measure progress. When I started this a month ago, I could just barely twitch the needle- not even one millibar of pressure was being exerted. Last week, I was up to 2 millibars, and this week I’m up to 3. So, it’s encouraging that I’m making progress. My husband isn’t much good at judging grip strength, and hopeless at telling me which muscles are firing, so I do my “training sessions” without him for the most part. Fingers provide better bio-feedback! We are having fun on with what I’m learning to do, though, and he really likes the idea of a strong grip down there. Even though I’m not strong yet (at 3 Hg) I’ve elicited a gasp or two so far. Kind of an interesting change after 24 years together!

I don’t know if the gadget I got – a Pelvexiser made in Austria- is the same as what is used clinically or if the pressure measured has anything to do with any other sort of clinical device. All I can use it for is to measure my own progress, as I don’t know what if the way it measures could even be compared to another device.

This week, the bit poking out of me seems different. Before, it was soft and mushy and ... well now it's different. It's not "out" so much anymore, and the surface is firmer to the touch. Also, I can get the anterior wall of the vagina to respond. Before, it just kind of didn't do much when I was trying to get the muscles to fire. It would move a tad when all the other muscles were clenched, but now there is definite movement of it's own.

I'm getting control of that group of muscles! And when now when I get the muscles around the ureter to contract, the front wall of the vagina follows. AND I can trigger the anal area muscles separately, so that if I clench the ureter area followed by the front wall of the vagina closely followed by the anal area, I get a clunky sort of ripple motion going. I can't keep it up for more than a few contractions, but IT WORKS. :)

I tried to show my husband when he woke up, but I'd already worn out the muscles for the morning and he didn't feel much. But I can do it! :) Knowing it's possible makes quite a difference.

Oh, and I should tell you that I think I had a bit of hysterical paralysis going on in my nether regions. Last week after reading Christine's book and seeing those picture that included a visible clitoris, I got out a mirror to see if I could find mine. I couldn't, it was completely hidden, but with the help of a flashlight and my husband, we located it. It had no more sensation than the rest of the skin down there. From what I've read since, there should be thousands of nerve endings on that structure, yet I didn't feel anything other than the occasional stab of pain kind of like a finger poked in the eye.

Another zone that is numb on me are my nipples. When my first daughter was born and was put to the breast it HURT. After a day or so, it stopped hurting, but to this day I've had no more sensation in the nipples than normal skin.

I'd heard the term "hysterical paralysis" before, and googled to see if the term could apply to my condition. What I found was a site on hypnosis, that claimed that many conditions of numbness or paralysis can be cause by the mind, and can be cured by hypnosis. I thought back as to what could have possibly caused me to do this to my groin, since I don't recall when this might have happened. The nipples were a pretty cut and dried case. Unbearable pain caused me to shut off the nerves. And they stayed shut off.

When I was a child I was horse crazy like so many little girls. My family moved out to the country just before I hit puberty, and soon got me a horse. I rode that horse all the time, and as the saddle was too heavy for me to put on her myself, I often rode her bareback. IT HURT at first. But soon didn't. I think that was the trigger. I'd wanted a horse so long that nothing was going to stop me from riding her, pain or no pain, so my mind shut off the nerves in self defense.

So, I read some things online about self-hypnosis, ordered a hypnosis book and read it and proceeded to unblock the nerves to those supposedly erogenous zones. I've had partial success. I can feel a gentle touch now, but the most alarming thing is that now my jeans hurt my groin area! The inseam hurts the clitoris, and I wear jeans to work everyday. At home, I can wear my baggy clothes from before the weight loss, but at work I need to wear stuff that looks at least like it fits. I keep standing up and pulling the seam *down* but I think I'm going to have to change my clothes and buy some skirts and/or dresses.

I'm going to have to wear "girl clothes"! (cries) Either that, or numb out my clitoris again. NOT! The muscles down there are responding so much better with the nerves unblocked that I really can't do that and expect to continue to make progress.

I hope this hasn't been too weird for everyone, but it was a real problem and had a real solution... and might have something to do with why everything got so weak down there in the first place.

The "numbness" of the clitoris isn't something I could really know was wrong, seeing as how it happened so early in my life. The nipples going numb was a definite clue, but one I didn't know how to follow up on until 19 years later!

The illustrations in your book were the final key to the puzzle, Christine. I'd discounted tales of clitoral sensitivity as mere hype, yet when I saw *visible* ones in the diagrams, I got to wondering if maybe I was a mutant or something and didn't have one- since the zone didn't act like an erogenous zone and I'd never seen anything like that when looking at my cystocele with a mirror. But it's there all right. And now that I can feel it, my husband says it is visible when stimulated. So, I'm not a mutant! ;-) Well at least in that particular area!

I've just had a self-imposed sexual handicap for most of my life. The things we do to ourselves!

I am pleased that the associated muscles are working better now. By the time I get to my urology appointment in 1.5 weeks, I bet she won't even suggest surgery. :-)

sorry about that!

A month later...

Last night, I discovered another set of muscles inside. There are now 4 separate zones I can control independantly and reliably. The pelvic floor muscles around the clitoris, the pelvic floor muscles around the anus, the front wall of the vagina close to the opening and something deep inside, beyond the reach of my fingers.

And I can trigger them in a rippling motion. I'm not strong yet- but the control is growing. :) I assume the longer I keep at this, the better the control will get and the stronger the muscles will become. I'm still doing 2 twenty minute sessions per day, using a couple of fingers for biofeedback. My cystocele is hardly noticable anymore, and certainly not bothersome. This is working. :)

And the side effects are fun. :)

I don't think it would be working as well if I were just doing the pelvic floor exercises. I can feel a textural change on the vaginal wall that still sags. It's firmer and not so mushy/squishy. If I were only working the pelvic floor muscles, I'd still be trying to close the door against all that internal pressure. The change in the vaginal wall decreases the amount of pressure on the pelvic floor, I think. And, of course, The Posture takes pressure off the pelvic floor muscles too. :)

There are still spots on the upper front wall of the vagina near the cervix that are mushy, and I think that corresponds to the areas that I don't have any control over yet, but it's hard to tell. I expect that the areas under conscious control will expand if I just keep at it, and once I *get* those muscles I can start strengthening them too.

Blueberry, the Tantra book I got that described "how to strengthen the yoni" was called "Tantra: Cult of the Feminine" by Andre Van Lysebeth. I didn't actually follow all the advice, but just knowing it was possible was half the battle. I bought a different Tantra book later called, "Essence of Tantric Sexuality" which is much more interesting from a metaphysical aspect- but it does not include the detailed explanation in the Van Lysebeth book.

Another thing that helped was learning that there are both "fast twitch" and "slow twitch" muscle fibers in the vaginal area. I *found* the muscles doing fast little twitches, and slowly increase my control over the areas with that technique- but I also alternate with long, slow contractions so that both types of muscle fibers get a workout.

The muscles seem to fail after about 20 minutes, so I don't work out any longer than that anymore. Twice a day, once in the morning before getting up, and once in the evening when I go to bed. And I always, ALWAYS am squeaky clean down there before "exercises" or sex. I'm rather paranoid about getting another bladder infection and keeping clean before handling seems vitally important in avoiding infection.

I don't find the exercises exciting at all (in fact, my major battle lately has been to stay awake during them!) but my increasing muscular control and increased sensitivity has been contributing to the best sex of my life. It wasn't bad before (not at all!) , but now it's really, mindblowingly good. :) Not bad for a mid 40's couple who have been together for 23 years! Those were the side effects I was talking about.

I don't really know how to say what I did. It's kind of like learning to wiggle your ears. You know, you accidently hit the muscle that twitches your ears, realize it was unusual, and spend hours trying to find the muscle again? You finally get it- and then spend more time perfecting control of it until you can amaze your friends! (Yeah, I did that as a kid.)

Well, this is something of the same sort of thing. I'd read about the Kegel exercises, and how you are supposed to find the muscles by shutting off urine flow. That part was straight forward enough. When I did this with a couple of fingers inserted inside myself, I only felt the outer layers, the pelvic floor muscles move. When I first started this, that's all I could do- very weakly. Everything was quite stretched by 15 years of ignoring the problem.

Almost by accident, I found that I could trigger the anal muscles separately, and that they are much stronger than the front pelvic floor muscles in me. Shortly after this I found the Tantra book and found all that stuff about being able to ripple the vagina. I started working the two muscle groups separately, using finger biofeedback, and after a few weeks of this, something in the vagina started twitching too.

I noticed, and tried to get to where I could do it when I wanted to, not just as part of the other movements. Eventually I got to where I could faintly wiggle the front wall of the vagina.

THEN I started trying to "ripple" in earnest. I'd squeeze the muscles around the clitoris, followed by the ones around the anus, followed by the one on the front vaginal wall. It still wasn't a smooth movement. Sort of a clunk, CLUNK, twitch. However after a month or so of exercising those muscle groups, I noticed a new area responding, somewhere deep inside. I worked on gaining conscious control of that area, and added it to the sequence.

So now I can do a mild squeeze of the front pelvic floor muscles, followed by a strong squeeze of the anal muscles, followed by a moderate squeeze of the front wall of the vagina, followed by a faint, unreliable twitch somewhere beyond the reach of my fingers. It's a smoother motion than it used to be, but not as rhythmic as "milking a cow" by any means. Plus the muscles fatigue fast, but then I've only been doing this since September.

I'll keep doing these twice daily exercises probably forever. What I have will get stronger, and maybe I'll get new areas of control show up. There are tales out there on the internet of incredible control of vaginal muscles by oriental bar girls... and also tales of women who accidentally clamp their vaginal muscles down so hard that their male partner can't withdraw! Penile captivus, it's called. I have no idea whether those tales are true or not, but it's something to think about.

I can't tell you HOW to trigger the muscles. I don't know HOW I did it myself. All you can do is keep trying and NOTICE when something changes and take advantage of it. You pretty much have to monitor with finger feedback, though. Otherwise you don't know when something new triggers, or if you are doing what you think you are doing.

I hope that helps. :-)

Bigmomma,
There are no bad side effects at all. It even seems like the prolapsed tissue is drawing away from the introitus, whereas before, my cervix was threatening follow my cystocele out. Before, the front wall of the vagina was slightly outside of my body, and chafed something terrible when I walked. Now it doesn’t chafe anymore, and is firmer to the touch. Also, when I first started this, I had to lean waaaaaay over when I urinated in order for my bladder to empty completely. Now when I do that, when I sit back up I have to urinate a little more, like the configuration of the bladder has drawn up inside a little and leaning so far over is too much now- if that makes any sense. It’s so hard to measure these things, but I’m pretty sure improvement in the prolapse is happening.

Christine-
The posture is half of what’s working for me. When I forget and tuck my butt under me (easy to do, I was in the Army and taught to stand like that- and my martial arts class taught the same thing) I feel an instant and uncomfortable increase in pressure. If I wasn’t using this postural change, I’d probably be losing all the progress I made each night/morning during the day as I walked around or sat. After I read your book, I also gave up using my chair back at work. This was very hard at first because my back muscles would get SO tired, but it’s really paying off now that my back is getting strong. I used to hurt my back annually, but the effort of sitting tall, chest uplifted, pubic bone downward-- with no chair back-- has strengthened my back muscles to the point where I don’t feel unstable anymore. It might be possible that my back problems are over too! My back has felt fragile since the first time I hurt it over 5 years ago, but it’s starting to feel sturdy again. THANK YOU! Without reading your book, I’d have never thought to sit without back support, and I do a lot of sitting at work.

I hope toning works for you. When I started, those interior muscles were so stretched out and neglected that it was almost impossible to get them to move. I don’t know how far I can go with the strength training down there, but it will be an interesting journey. My husband thinks so to! ;-)

Well, there are good days and bad days. Yesterday, for example, when I decided I could risk straining on the toilet just a little, just this once and I felt all blown out afterwards, and the cystocele was partially outside again and felt all mushy. And when I did exercises later, EVERYTHING felt weaker.

I'd been following a strict no straining rule for months- if things didn't come out on their own, I'd use an enema or finger assist. I was feeling cocky after all my bragging, and had a definite set back as a result.

*sigh*

I should have known I wasn't ready for that. And might never be ready for that.

I'm not giving up, Bigmomma. It was just a bit disappointing to lose half the progress I'd made. I guess those new little muscle fibers are very fragile at this stage.

Christine, yesterday I finally read your blog "Why Kegels don't work". I'd avoided it before, for fear it would mess up my self-confidence. Now I know what you are talking about when you mention X and Y axis.

Yesterday evening when I went to bed, I didn't really *feel* like doing the exercises, so I tried reading a book and just doing repetitive full pelvic floor tightenings- that didn't take much concentration and I could keep reading my book. Very shortly, my tailbone started hurting! So, I quit for the evening and in the morning, I was very careful not to tighten along the full Y axis. Indeed, I think moving the regions separately requires tightening along the X axis somehow! Whenever I'd slip and tighten along the whole Y axis, my tailbone would hurt.

I think I've avoided hurting myself with the intense exercises I've been doing, because I've been working the sections independantly, and that level of control requires pulling along the X axis rather than the Y. In fact, some of the regions respond better if I imagine that I'm tightening up into my legs (even though I can't feel any muscles move there).

Also, about my bed.... we sleep on two memory foam mattress toppers, with a combined height of technically 5 inches. However, they are rather old and worn, and the places we sleep the most are permanently sunken in. (Yeah, it's about time to replace them.) My point is, when I'm lying on my back, my pelvis is significantly lower than my head, probably by 4 to 5 inches, and my lower back is fully supported by the memory foam that isn't compressed. So, MAYBE I've been doing these exercises with a bit of lumbar curve preserved.

I don't know how they would work on a regular mattress, since the only place I've done them is on this particular mattress/topper combo, so perhaps a bit of a warning might be in order for those with normal mattress set ups.

Edit: Thanks, UKmummy! :)