New to board rectocele 10 years after hyst

Submitted by Holley on May 27, 2014 - 10:44am
Body: 

Hello,
I am a retired RN and midwife. I am almost 62. 10 years ago I had a total hysterectomy and almost 10 years before that I had bladder surgery for urinary incontanance. Anyway, I always had slight rectocele since hysterectomy. I was just traveling, got a very bad flu with bad cough and also very rare (for me) 2 bouts of constipation. The combo of the coughing and straining one day a few weeks ago, right before flying home from Europe, brought down a full on rectocele that fills my vagina. I immediately thought surgery and have an appointment with GYN tomorrow. I already saw my GI doctor and GP docs since I got home from travel. They hardly wanted to look at me. I have talked to many of my friends in the Medical world and read a lot online. I am terrified of any surgery but also afraid of pessary, which I know do not do as well with rectocele, risk of colon twisting/strangulation, fistula, more prolapsed. Sometimes being a nurse is not a good thing knowing worse case scenarios. I am very uncomfortable all the time and now losing bladder control and had to treat UTI as soon as I got home. ANYONE FAMILIAR WITH post hysterectomy and uroplasty rectocele ?

Hard decisions before me....no meshes, that's for sure

Forum:

Surviving60

May 27, 2014 - 6:06pm

Hi Holley and welcome. Please make up your mind right now, not to have any more surgery. Every procedure leaves less tissue behind, so the vagina is less and less able to flatten against intra-abdominal pressure and keep the organs out of that space. There is no surgical cure or permanent fix for prolapse. Your gyn is a surgeon, so I think you know where he will be trying to send you.

Your pelvic support dynamics are greatly altered, but you still have the same goal we all have, of getting the remaining organs to stay as far forward in the lower belly as possible. Please do some reading around the site and get an understanding of the posture work that Christine teaches. Here are two videos to watch, to get you started:
http://wholewoman.com/newpages/video/ww101.html
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RvGROzIYN6w

There is another heavy-duty discussion going on right now, that you might want to check out, with a post-hyst member who is trying to avoid a vault prolapse. it really tells it like it is.....but we don't hold back on this forum - the stakes are too high!
https://wholewoman.com/forum/node/6122
Best of luck to you - hope you can find what you need to get started. - Surviving

Holley

July 3, 2014 - 3:33pm

So,
VAULT PROLAPSE:
My PCP Doc (who I love and trust) freaked out after I told her that saw my new gyn and he diagnosed me with a grade 2 rectocele. She was upset that the gyn said that it could be managed with a pessary or to possibly try a machine for the urinary incontinence with biofeedback (incontinence is not too bad-only urgency sometimes). She was also not happy that I had two UTIs in a month. The GYN was conservative, but incorrect in his diagnosis. Read on…..I have no uterus, my bladder has been in a sling (BURCH) for almost 20 years. I have had two procedures with a urologist a few years ago to "adjust my bladder neck and urethra". So then my PCP sent me to a colorectal surgeon for a "second opinion" and he was quite sure I had been misdiagnosed by the gyn and said after exam that I have a large enterocele (small intestine prolapsed into my vagina from above) and a rectocele as well. He then recommended that I have surgery….but not with him. He sent me to another specialist this time a urogynecologist. He said "they" would need to operate through an abdominal incision. That would be my third cut there! So I will watch the videos suggested, see what this next doctor has to say and then probably do nothing. I have also had two transvaginal uretheral resections so I think the top of my vagina has already been set up for this situation.
I wish I never had the hysterectomy. I wish I never did the bladder surgeries. I am so upset. I feel like I did this to myself and I should have known better. I am a nurse midwife myself, that had my roots in natural medicine and alternatives to western medical intervention. I am trying to figure out wether the pessary is a risk to my already traumatized tissue in my vagina. I am inserting esterase cream twice a week. I also have severe degenerative disk disease with neuropathy etc, had two upper back/neck surgeries and my lumbar spine is quite compromised with disk compression, osteoarthritis and a tear at S1. So I am a mess at age 61. I am still doing yoga, minus the deep swats for now.
What to do, what to do. No one here on this forum has talked about enterocele or probably has had as many surgeries as I have already so I feel especially alone.

Aussie Soul Sister

July 3, 2014 - 6:07pm

Dear Holley,
So sorry for what you have been and are going through - however you have landed in the right place.
Christine has stated that 90% of the knowledge she imparts is general to everybody, and for the 10% of individual issues she is available for a telephone consultation.
The one thing that you can do for yourself immediately is to help prevent more urinary tract infections, urinate on all fours if you can, into a basin or in the shower once a day. This will help get rid of residual urine left in the bladder. Relaxing your lower belly will help you. I'm out of my depth as to the exercises that would help you, however calling Christine will see you in expert hands regarding what you can do for yourself.
I hope you don't feel so alone after finding us,
Best wishes,
Aussie Soul Sister

Holley

July 4, 2014 - 9:21am

I will try that at least in the AMs. I have the urge to pee a lot during the day. I'll have to find me a pee pan LOL.

In my 20s (after having 1 baby) I lived in the jungle in Maui in a very primitive setting. We made all our toilets outside composting toilets and we all squatted to pee or have BM. I think it was very healthy! When I left Hawaii I continued to try to do that on toilets , but quit because it was too hard to balance as my spine was giving out. As a home birth midwife, and in hospital deliveries if no epidural, I often had women get on all fours in labor and often for the actual delivery. Worked really well for big babies and Posterior presentation "back labor pain" Anyway that's off topic, but probably good advice for any young women here that are pregnant or plan to be.

And my apologies for not reading the "Read me first". I started this thread probably in the wrong place. What category should I be in? Post Menopausal Prolapse? Post Hysterectomy? Start an Enterocele Forum?

I will also set up a call with Christine as I think my case is quite complicated.

I wish you all who live in the USA a Happy Independence Day. May we all be free and happy as much as possible.
Holley

Aussie Soul Sister

July 4, 2014 - 7:10pm

Dear Holly,
urinary urgency is something that can be helped a great deal with Whole Woman Posture.

In case you do Kegels, stop as they can pull the bladder back and down - this is what causes the UTIs and urine retention as the opening to the bladder is tipped up like the spout of a teapot making it difficult to drain completely. When I was advised to do what we call pelvic floor exercises ( kegels), before WW days, I stopped as they were causing urinary urgency almost constantly.

I find the following imagery helpful.

Imagine how small children carry themselves with their lower belly relaxed and belly breathing, their chests lifted. Their breath is forcing the abdominal organs namely bladder and uterus into a forward position snuggling them into the lower belly.

Picture side - on, a pregnant woman with the baby in the uterus far in front of the pubic bone, protected from back and downward forces of intra - abdominal pressure - the organs are in the same position in the non - pregnant state.

With our "modern" lifestyle of suck and tuck & popular exercise styles, slouchy furniture and modernized corsetry of tight clothing, our organs fall back from the protection of the front abdominal wall and sometimes end up downward, hence pop.

Your experience as an home birth midwife is wonderful - I wish I had had you when preparing for all my deliveries as you are spot on with the all fours birth position especially for posterior which was my first - I just didn't have the strength to continue on all fours as it was tried - the gyneo didn't tell me my babe was in that position - I feel we can be so separated from our natural instinct and nature as women.I hope to encourage my daughters to have water and all fours births if they have children.

Whole woman posture and exercises would give women the physical and emotional strength to tune into nature and give birth with a much better chance of a positive experience.
Wishing you well,
Best wishes,
Aussie Soul Sister

Surviving60

July 5, 2014 - 9:45am

I agree that your case is too complicated for the ladies here. Burch bladder sling (still in place?), total hyst, 2 transvaginal urethral resections (no idea what those are), not to mention the spinal issues and multiple surgeries there. Only Christine might be able to say whether or not you are a candidate for the WW work. Perhaps your 'celes are helping to support the vaginal vault, which could be a good thing........? - Surviving

Holley

July 11, 2014 - 4:54pm

Hello Surviving60 and everyone,
I posted some of this yesterday in another topic thread. I don't see too many women posting about enterocele, so I want to share again here:
I am a complicated case, that's for sure. AND this program is for me!
"…I had been splinting for years because of a small rectocele and did not mind. Then this big loop appeared and I freaked out. Since returning to the country I have seen 4 different MDs, 2 of them surgeons for this and had an appointment yesterday with a uro-gynecologist surgeon for one more opinion after a colorectal surgeon told me I had to have pelvic floor repair with an abdominal incision and probably a mesh. Well, guess what? I just canceled!

I saw my new gynecologist again who gave me a pessary a month ago when I got back to the states. ( the enterocele dropped down in Madrid!) We had a long long talk yesterday, and he actually talked me out of having surgery. He said that I was an extremely complicated and high risk candidate for surgery and admitted that he felt that the failure rate was too high and the possible pain and suffering was not worth it for me to try. WOW!

I told him about this website and he was impressed. Yesterday I just got my first two DVDs in the mail and am so encouraged that I can do this. I am experimenting with the pessary and liked it when I heard Christine suggest taking it out at night. I think moving my bowls in the AM and then putting the pessary back in (or not) might help me empty better. I have intuitively been rocking on my hands and knees in the AMs even before seeing the DVDs and learning the WW posture. It all makes so much sense. I just saw the First Aid for Prolapse this AM and now want to be a WW ballerina/River Dancer!

So I just wanted to say here, THANKS and there are a few practitioners out there that aren't so caviler about surgery for prolapse. We women can reeducate ourselves and our practitioners by our examples. I am sharing the videos with my yoga teachers that work in the Center where I am a board member. We have a lot of older women who come to do yoga there and I bet I am not the only one with some kind of prolapse.

I may just ditch the pessary altogether, today I feel blocked up and I wonder if it's making it harder, not easier to empty. Loving the new posture!

H

disfiguredwoman

July 13, 2014 - 4:36am

I really appluad you for not having surgery for your prolapse. For mine, refusing is no longer an option becuase I am now wheelchair bound thanks to things pressing on sciatic nerves. All of my ligaments have ruptured :( I refuse to go with a mesh though due to it's track record. pretty discusted that I now have no choice.. if I want to walk again. I honestly don't get how a prolapse can become so painful and disabling? Every doc and specialist I have consulted with tells me the same thing... even neurologists. I am very high risk for surgery but I don't care to live suffering like this. When I sleep I do sleep on my belly which stops the horrible back and groin pains,yet I can't walk as my legs " are not getting the nerve signals due to the prolapse pressing on sciatic nerves" as three neuros have put it. As for pessaries.. I find them very irritating to my already sensitive tissues despite the fact I CAN walk with one in place. I congratulate all the girls here who can do without surgery.

Surviving60

July 13, 2014 - 6:37am

I need to remind other unsuspecting readers that Disfiguredwoman has a complicated history of severe vaginal trauma, repair surgeries, pessary damage and neurological disorders. DW, you don't have to keep justifying your need for surgery now, we understand it, but it isn't fair to others to portray your prolapse as putting you in a wheelchair. Your situation is quite different and your experience is only helpful to others if it is kept in context. - Surviving

disfiguredwoman

July 15, 2014 - 6:17am

From what I understand, Prolapse doing what mine is doing is very rare. I was just hoping to avoid yet another surgery. Until now I didn't think A prolapse was really that painful, More of an annoyance. I would like to stick with the forum though becuase There are other issues that can be helped by Posture, Perhaps lessening my PT sessions after surgery or resulting in a shorter PT time and faster ( but safe) healing period. Prolapses ussually do not cause one to have to use a wheelchair, SOrry if I scared anyone here. ( please forgive me for "jumping around" it's part of my nuero disorder). You are right surviving.. My prolapse was not a natural occurance, I believe if it had just happened Like after child birth, it wouldn't be as dramatic with it's effects. Thanks for clarifying things.

Surviving60

July 15, 2014 - 1:43pm

It's true that much of your prolapse experience is not typical and could be worrisome to other members who are new here. You can't necessarily know the difference yourself, so thanks for understanding if we are compelled to make these points here. I feel like I'm always throwing your history back at you, but really, it's only fair on an open forum to point these things out for clarification to all members, including you. - Surviving