Prolapse question - I need your help

Hi Lilly Anne

It sounds like you still have a heap of worrying things happening, and I think I would be a bit bound up in the same situation. I am wondering if you have a rectocele which may be affecting you more than the bladder prolapse. Your toilet experiences sound like what I was going through up to the time my old marriage fell apart. (I am now in a new marriage to the same man, but that is a miraculous and wonderful story for another day.)

Major stress-induced and quite chronic constipation resulted (regardless of how much I drank and how much dietary fibre I ate), that I ultimately put down to constantly high levels of adrenalin in my body while I was trying to make some sense of what I was going through and working out what to do about it. I felt my body was utilising all its water and storing it away from my bowel, and shutting down digestive processes in preparation for battle, survival and/or fleeing. I sometimes had normal bowel movements, but often I would feel that I needed to go but nothing would come as soon as I was on the loo. I felt I had to strain to get anything to happen, and I do remember feeling a painless, slight tearing sensation one day while I was straining. Fascia giving way? Who knows? I figured that my bowel was intruding into my vagina, giving it an extra loop before the anus, and that was what was preventing progress of the stool, just like a kink in the garden hose will slow the water flow. I was not aware of the exta loop (rectocele) until I felt inside my vagina a few times while sitting on the toilet and realised that it was not there sometimes, only when I was having trouble passing stool. I did not know about Wholewoman at the time, or what a rectocele was.

My solution to the rectocele was (Ick Factor Warning!) to insert my thumb into my vagina and simply push the bit of bowel back to where it belonged so the rectum was straightened out again, sort of like taking the kink out of a garden hose. That usually worked, but I could also massage the rectum gently through the vaginal wall to break up the stool a bit if it didn't. I could then rock my pelvis backwards and forwards slowly a few times, which I figured shifted my pelvic contents around a bit and freed up the movement a bit more. It might take a few days of this to get my evacuation back to normal, and reasonably regular. Without the added worry of how I would get my bowels moving again my personal stress levels would drop a bit and the bowels might give me little problem for a few days.

Three years down the track I only rarely (maybe four times a year) need to help a bowel motion this way, though it has taken many months of Wholewoman practices to feel this good.

Posture has been the main factor, and co-incidentally it has helped me to feel confident to carry myself in a very female way and to be proud of my boobs, belly and butt. I have never felt as comfortable before in my female body.

I know there will always be life experiences that cause me to become constipated, but now I can manage them for what I recognise them to be, and I know that they will pass (the experiences, that is!). They do pass, and my bowels start working again, often quite suddenly returning to normal functioning. What a relief that is!

Re the bladder, I have also found that I think my bladder is empty, have a bowel motion and then can empty more urine out. I think it is all to do with full intestines pressing on the bladder or urethra, then the bowel contents shifting and the urine can then flowing freely again. I can remember as a child the sensation of my intestines rearranging themselves after a bowel movement. I think I must have suffered constipation as a child, but did not understand what it was.

I think it is important for us to give ourselves permission to enjoy ourselves quite selfishly every now and again, if simply to take our minds off the threats, guilt and sadness we otherwise feel 24/7, and to give our metabolism the chance of resting from the constant adrenalin overload that results from our minds working overtime to try and solve the currently unsolvable. You might be able to find the opportunity to spend some time every few days with someone who will make you laugh and enjoy your company and take you out of yourself and your worries for a little mind holiday. I am sure that you will be able to repay that person or pass the gift on to another needy person when you have overcome all these present difficulties (which you will in time). Be gentle with yourself.

I hope this is some help. Email me if you want to discuss it further.

Cheers

Louise

I am doing the same regimen too...the miralax, water, and flaxseed pills, & more veggies. It seems to work. Also, I only drink one cup of coffee or tea a day. It seems to stimulate me to go. I know dairy and too much meat constipates me. But passing a hard stool is damaging. So i try to stay to the routine as much as possible.

Btw, Louise, can I email you on the side about your other story if you care to share? I am taking things day by day right now.

Lilly Anne,
I must say that I agree with Louise that your problems may be rectocele problems. Louise's description of rectocele is accurate. I have a rectocele, and have great trouble evacuating. A push on the rear vaginal wall (vaginal wall closest to rectum) with the thumb, or two fingers inserted into vagina (otherwise known as "splinting") can help. However, I have short fingers and have never been able to employ either of these methods very well...my fingers don't have the strength or length to push on tough vaginal wall adequately it seems.

I find that sometimes I simply have to let gravity take over and stool sort of drops out on its own. If I cannot evacuate, I get up and walk around, or employ Christine's suggestions...lean forward and bend head to knees and raise but up and then sit down again on toilet. Or, I try breathing properly while on the toilet...think of a balloon under your ribs....as you breath in expand your lower ribcage like a balloon, and when you exhale, decrease the air in the balloon. Think of how and opera singer breathes using the diaphram...belly goes out when you breath in and belly goes down when you exhale. This is the opposite of how adults breathe but it is how babies breathe. You will be surprised at how, with practice, thinking of your breathing like a balloon under ribcage can help evacuation. Somehow this breathing technique "turns bowel on" and lets its nerves get the evacuation going.

Try not to "break off stool" with rectal muscles when it descends and exits. Try to let the whole stool come out at once. I find if stool breaks off, the remainder is stuck in the rectocele and is uncomfortable until the next day when I evacuate again.

I know this is a very frustrating thing and you feel like you are going mad sometimes. I have had this problem since hysterectomy, but did not have it before hysterectomy. Sometimes, I feel like I have stool in my rectum all the time and basically want to be sitting on the toilet all the time, even at night. I try to control this urge. Doctors don't understand the life-altering nature of rectocele and the extraordinary management that they required.

I find there is a balance between hard and soft stools that must be struck with rectocele. Too hard and you can't get stool out thereby worsening rectocele over time. Too soft, and stool breaks off and the remainder of the stool stuck in rectal pouch or hernia. Therefore, medium density stools are the best to work with. I've tried a few things. Too much fibre from metamucil or other insoluble fibre-like products makes stools too bulky and "weighty" for me. These fibre products actually seem to make my rectocele worse. Fruits such as apples and other soluble fibres (look soluble fibre up online...soluble fibre is in fruits) is helpful. Insoluble fibre, fibre in Metamucil and like products, heavy grains, full-fibre pasta etc. seem to aggravate my rectocele and actually make rectum feel raw and very weighty..like rectum is going to fall out. Nuts bother my rectocele and make it raw and scraped feeling. Cabbage is hard on my rectocele and makes rawness worse...this includes cole-slaw, and cooked cabbage and sauerkraut. Things with sharp edges such as crackers, taco chips, potato chips make my rectocele feel worse. This may not be your situation, but my rectocele feels like the rectal wall is too thin and will break if too much "scrapes" it. Even peanut butter, not just nuts seem to aggravate my rectocele. Experiment with leaving out some of the aforementioned foods or others that may bother you.

I have tried eating more soups and just basically eat less food to accommodate rectocele. On days when it is really bad I don't eat breakfast or lunch, just drink "Boost" energy drinks which have all the vitamins you need for awhile anyway. However, not eating isn't great for bowel over time, but I find overindulgence when rectocele is bad is also harmful.

I've tried making a power drink in the mornings that I feel may be helpful. This drink seems to bind stool together, making it easy to evacuate...neither too hard nor too soft. The drink works sometimes or at least on bad days makes me feel like I may improve or am helping my situation in some way. You may wish to try it.

I use my Kitchen Aid blender, or you can use a hand blender...Kitchen Aid is best if you have one or one like it. I pour one small container yogurt into blender (freeze slightly if you wish for a thick drink), drop in 1/2 cup or more of frozen blueberries (no need to thaw them), 1/2 banana, a bit of milk, and 2 tablespoons soy protein powder (available in some grocery store health food sections or health food store...not expensive as a little lasts a long time). Add a bit of milk and blend. Finished mixture should be quite thick, milkshake consistency, and a nice purple colour due to blueberries. You may wish to use frozen strawberries instead of blueberries. You can use any flavour of yogurt you want or adapt ingredients as you wish. If you wish you can add a bit of flaxseed oil to mixture or sometimes I add the "Greens" powder from the healfood store. Be careful with the soy protein though as soy is a phyto-estrogen and can mimic the bodies estrogen - like a lock & key mechanism. If you have endometriosis or have had breast cysts or breast cancer, soy is not something you should likely have. Soy is a really over-marketed product and should be used with a great deal of respect. You may wish to replace soy powder with another powdered protein that is not soy (check out your health food store for this...I'm sure there is one...be careful with bovine "cow" bone powder as well). I would leave out the protein powder however, I feel through experimentation that it is likely the protein powder that I'm sure contributes to the right quality of stool for evacuation. So expermiment with protein powders and do your research on this one. Look up "soy" and "phytoestrogens" online.

Also, I have watched Christine's video and she is correct. Traditional kegels, the ones your doctor tells you to do make rectocele worse. You must acquire some understanding of the "x" and "y" axis and how they work so order her video if you have the money. Stay away from pilates exercises. Most pilates exercises, and notice I say "Most", but not all, use "core" muscles and push out the open pelvic cavity that women are born with (unlike men who have closed pelvises). How fortunate they are. I have found that micro movements (very small pelvic movements and being acutely aware of how all your muscles work in the pelvis) are helpful. However, this knowledge only comes with practice, the correct exerise program, and time. Christine's comment about obtuse and acute angles and how they work (somewhere in this site) is very good. Anything less than 90 degree angle is ok (acute) but working at obtuse angle (anything more than 90 degrees) is detrimental. In other words, for example, sitting and leaning forward puts not much strain on pelvic floor (acute angle from hips to head). However, sitting and leaning backwards (obtuse angle from hips to head) creates pelvic floor pressure. Remember your Grade 8 geometry and you will understand this concept.

I try to limit my time on my feet. Sometimes though, sitting makes rectocele feel worse. Vaginal estrogen can help if you are menopausal and not allergic to it (which I am...paragen and glycol allergy). Pessaries can make rectocele worse although there are rectocele pessaries which are different from cystocele pessaries I understand...shape is different. I find e-string (vaginal estrogen ring) makes rectocele worse.

I find flaxseed oil daily makes my stools too soft. I find flaxseed (ground) rubs my rectum raw and makes it sore. I'm trying flaxseed oil in smaller amounds (less than a 1/2 teaspoon) and only every 3 days now and seeing if this helps. You may wish to try a couple of prunes a day instead of flaxseed or dried apricots (a few a day). You may wish to try eating an apple a day or a pear a day, or putting a pear in your morning drink.

Hope some of this helps.
Kat

To be honest I dont know 'what it was like up there' beforehand either!

Now - I have a cystocele ad If you put a finger 'up there' (lol) can you feel something to the front? This something is like a bump - And if you can run your finger around it - it will only go half way - Like something is poking through a wall and you can feel it as a bump and because of the wall your finger does not go right in a ring round it - it is like half way (Hard to describe lol)

Had you a uterine prolapse (My motherhas) Then when you do this same check you can go all the way round like going around the end of a sausage.

Hope that helps in some small way.

Some things on this computer thing can frighten you - BUT - I always believe knowledge is power - And after all - you found us here and there is strength in numbers :)

Sue

Sure Mommi2three, email me no problems.

Cheers

Louise

Hi again Lilly Anne

Having read some of the responses from our fellow travellers, you will see how many possibilities there are for ways of freeing things up. Sue's comment about finding out what was up there ring true with me. When everything is fine, and midwives and doctors are the only ones who go up there, and then tell us what they find, we have little reason to even be curious. However, I feel similarly to Sue that knowledge is empowering. Whose body is it anyway? Not the midwives' or the doctors', that's for sure. Make friends with your body. It can give you a lot of pleasure, and tell you a lot, if you get to know it. A doctor's diagnosis (which is giving you a word for what he/she has observed) is one thing, but what you know about your body will tell you a lot more. We have given you lots of suggestions. You can now find out what is happening in your body, and what works for you in what situations. Once you know what tricks work for your body, you have the power in your own hands (and pantry) to deal with it, and can start letting go of some of the anxiety (and breathe easier). You no longer have to worry about which 'cele/s' you are dealing with. You just get on and deal with them using the knowledge that is here, and get your life back.

Something to think about is that we are often told to breathe out to relax us when we feel anxious. I have come to realise that what they are talking about is the breathing that is high in the chest and shoulders, done with the muscles between the ribs. We breathe out and our shoulders and neck can relax.

What Wholewoman posture is about is carrying yourself in a way that you breathe deep into the belly and out of the belly. These muscles between the ribs are only used when extra breathing capacity is needed at times of exertion. I don't think we should be breathing high up into the chest at all on a regular basis, as it can make us tense up the shoulders and neck. We just don't need that much oxygen. Keeping the breastbone elevated ensures that our lungs fill properly, so just breathe in and out of the belly, slowly, and through the nose *all the time*. This also prevents hyperventilation. You might find that helpful in dealing with anxiety too, and you may be able to kick the drugs eventually, as well. BTW, I think some anti-depressants can be constipating too, but check on that. Just keep breathing.

Cheers

Louise

I am with you there Lilly Anne. I too wonder about what will be in 2,5, and 10 years. Does anyone have experiance with long term prolapse? Last night I watched a surgical repair video-AHHHHHHHHH scary.
I think you will get your can do attitude back. For me this has been a process - and just when I think I have accepted it- I back slide. Hey instead of thinking this is your fate - why not focus on the fact that everyone is different and you could experiance healing over time with the exercises and posture and diet. (Is that denial?)
Have you looked into squatting? There is alot of info about that on this site- and other sites - they even have special platforms-
and I know this is bossy- but suck it up and check it out. It is just your body doin its thing. B

I'll be honest, I don't have my pre-prolapse life back. I don't think I ever will. and that's a loss worth mourning. I cried a LOT, bitched and moaned to my dh incessantly, and was just downright unhappy for a long time.
and then gradually things changed. even before my prolapse began to get better, my attitude shifted a bit, and things that were so important to me in the past just weren't anymore. small improvements were able to lift my spirits and I began to get used to my new life with prolapse. and it isn't all bad.
my old can-do attitude is back, and stronger because guess what? I am successfully living well with my prolapse without the 'help' of a surgeon.
I still worry about what will be in 2 years, 10, post menopause?????
but I try not to focus on the what-if's and focus on how far I've come. and there's always this forum for support when I'm having a bad day.
I won't lie to you, it wasn't easy getting here. Your fear is real, your loss is real. take time to mourn, cry whatever. its ok, and I think its an important step towards healing. and keep in the back of your mind that there IS hope. my prolapse has improved significantly, I rarely notice it anymore. Really, this new life is pretty good : )

((((hugs)))))

Hi LillyAnne
Don't want to scare you but I can't let this go. Xanax is a drug that is highly addictive, and has diahorraea/constipation as side effects. Your doctor has prescribed it for you for his own reasons. I would be asking why. Have a look at this. http://psyweb.com/Drughtm/jsp/xanax.jsp.

I know he has said before that you do too much research on the Internet. Too much for whom? Knowledge *is* power. It is your body, not his. You have a brain which is for you to use. Use it in the best way possible.

However, on the other hand, you sound so much better. :-) We all need crutches at different times, so use what is available to get back on your feet.

There are heaps of antidepressants out there that you can use to help you through this (some are downright horrible and others less horrible, but they are all mind-altering substances and some have some serious body effects as well). All keep you from reality and can prevent you from moving on. There are also non-drug ways of dealing with anxiety (eg cognitive behaviour therapy). Sounds like you may be finding a path that will allow you to move on from your anxiety. Stay in touch.

Cheers

Louise