Newly Diagnosed Cystocele & Rectocele

Firstly - do not listen to a word that stupid man says

I have had a prolapse since my first birth - I have had TWO further children since - So that throws his first sentence outta the window.

Secondly - I had a grade 2 prolapse Now after work I have a grade 1 - So this can be helped a bit NON surgically

You do NOT need any Hysterectomy - If your prolapse was the worst of the worst then I may think again but somehow I doubt this - Did he give you a grading?

If you have surgery - Lifting will be banned over 15lbs

I would say - You are here - Well done - This is Day 1 of your self-repair quest - Now - Should you want surgery that is completely up to you :) But there are ways and means to live well with this malady and not hafta become a surgical game for them to play.

My Gynae is great - He does not recommend surgery and if there is alot of problems recommends pessary use first.

Look up the Posture in the FAQs - Impliment it....

Then - One month to 6 weeks from now - See how you feel :)

Sorry if I sound all hoity toity and bossy - I just hate the way doctors can tell you you HAVE to take a certain course that they know will cause problems :(

Please feel free to PM me if you wanna chat - I am here I will answer all the questions you ask :)

Good Luck

Sue

PS) You need to change your profile to 'accepting emails' So people can contact you and you them :)

Hi Bigboysmom,

I agree with Sue but just want to add a few thoughts.

Doctors have a “story of prolapse” they have been telling themselves and each other for well over a hundred years. It is a story based on inaccurate anatomy, faulty assumptions, and a general denial of the reality of the post-surgical woman. Here are a few points you may find of interest from the Whole Woman™ perspective:

• Women are built for birthing large offspring. Eleven and twelve pounds are indeed big babies, but still within normal range.

• Prolapse occurs in most women who have given birth and in some who have never been pregnant.

• All surgical treatments for prolapse set women up for additional and often far more serious problems.

• Treatment for prolapse must consist of reinforcing the natural shape of the spine in order that the pelvic organs resume the placement within the pelvis they adapted to occupy.

• There is nothing random about how to return the organs to their proper positions. It can only be done from the outside through posture and natural movement, and from the inside through the force of our breath.

• Treatment also consists of discontinuing certain lifestyle habits and causative factors, most importantly straining against the toilet seat. Lift yourself slightly off the seat into a half squat.

• There is no pelvic floor. The key is to move the organs forward and away from the muscles of the pelvic outlet so they don’t fall through. These muscles offer no resistance to things falling through.

• This is an incomplete process for many because of the nature of endopelvic fascia to retain its altered shape, much like a stretched out sweater.

• However, untold numbers of women are now quite satisfied with the level of stability and reversal they have achieved through this work.

• Virtually all cases of prolapse can be stabilized if a woman has all her organs and is willing to work at it.

• It is joyful “work” to live and breathe naturally.

• Women can birth safely with prolapse.

• Subsequent gentle birth does not necessarily worsen prolapse.

• Not returning the postpartum spine to its natural shape establishes the conditions for prolapse.

• Some of the most difficult cases are women who have had “repairs” and then become pregnant.

• C-section is a terrible “solution” to prolapse. Nerve damage and altered fascial planes will cause additional problems.

• Be careful of post-surgery women telling you, “I had a fourth degree prolapse that could only have been fixed through surgery.” The post-surgery pelvis is highly unstable and chances are if those same women could choose again, they would choose the postural and breath work.

Wishing you well,

Christine

PLEASE do not let this man scare you away from having more children!

I found my cystocele I don't know, about a year and a half ago, then went on to develop a rectocele and realized my uterus was low too. A year later I felt so much more comfortable and empowered by this work that I *knew* my body could handle another baby. I'm now 17 weeks pg with our fourth, and hopefully no further damage will be done. and even if the prolapse returns I know I can manage it non-surgically.

take some time to read through the faq's and posts here, read it a few times, and try the posture. and I'd especially recommend the firebreathing. give your body some time to recover from pg and childbirth while allowing yourself time to wrap your mind around the concept of living well with a prolapse. It can be done! and you CAN have more children with prolapse!

good luck on the journey ahead, we are all here for you

...not that there aren’t an infinite number of ways to push the pelvic organs back over the pubic bones, ethnic and classical dances being major ones. The point is, prolapse can only improve when we move the organs out of the vagina and back toward the lower abdominal wall. A strong “pelvic floor” is such an ingrained concept, but has no real meaning with regard to prolapse when you think deeply about it.

Hi Bigboysmom

Welcome to the best place in the world if you are trying to work out how to keep your body in one piece and everything inside you ;-)

A couple of points I would like to add. Firstly, there are other reasons for babies being big at birth, one being diabetes in the mother. I hope your doctor investigated this one, as it has big health implications for you. There are other reasons for prolapse too, eg childhood or lifetime constipation or poor posture (butt tucked under and slumped shoulders) and chronic coughing.

Secondly the FAQ's that a couple of other women have mentioned are on the homepage, www.wholewoman.com. The FAQ's are a must when you are just beginning this journey. Just follow the link and expand each question for its answer. You can also use the Search function in the left frame of this page to look for things other women have said about different topics.

Thirdly, three months after birth is early days to be deciding that your body will not recover from the birth process. My youngest is now 19, and I can remember him being at least nine months old, and going for a short jog. All my pelvic contents were slopping around inside me something terrible! However, a few *years* down the track I became aware that they were no longer slopping around. The spaces between my three babies were 2 1/2 years and 2 years. As babies who are breastfed on demand and at night tend to start being interested in solid foods some time in the second half of the first year, and are generally eating real food fairly seriously after 12 months of age, babies probably 'naturally' come along every 18 months to 2 years. That tells me that the body is ready for a new pregnancy sometime around 12 or more months after the first birth. This is all very ballpark, but it does not mean that the female body will be completely back to normal by 3 months post partum.

Mind you, I now have all three prolapses, which I can now see were developing over the ensuing years, culminating in serious advice from a urogynaecologist mid-2005 that hysterectomy and some other hitching up procedures were the only thing that would save my pelvic floor from certain collapse. Fortunately I had found this site by then and chose to cheerfully say, "No thankyou." Since changing my posture and diet, and carrying and lifting differently, I can honestly say that I am unaware of my prolapses 95% of the time as long as I watch all these factors carefully, and am kind to my body for a week or so before, and during menstruation. I can now go for a jog 'in posture' and do not leak, which is something I could not do 12 months ago. My prolapses are still there, no doubt about that. But the way I carry myself and clothe myself, and what I feed myself, and how I lift now is preventing further damage. I can live like this for years, as long as menopause doesn't bring any unforeseen changes. If it does I now feel that I will be able to deal with those changes with full knowledge of what is possible.

The thing with prolapse is that women carry it for years without even knowing they have it, so it is not a problem. It only becomes a problem when it is diagnosed by a doctor, when sexual function is compromised, or that little cervix tries to exit the vagina and feels really wierd, or urinary or faecal continence is compromised.

I have never had any sexual problems related to prolapse, that I know of, so I can't comment on that. Once my posture was adjusted so that my bladder and uterus were supported by the pubic bone instead of the delicate pelvic floor (which I prefer to refer to as the pelvic door), and my diet had more fibre and water to prevent compaction of the stool, I no longer experience these symptoms regularly, so my prolapses would now probably be rated better than they were several years ago. So in practise, I no longer have prolapse 'problems'.

I hope this make sense to you. It is all very subjective.

Cheers

Louise

my rectocele was diagnosed @ my 6 week pp visit by my wonderful(but very green) home birth midwife. that was three weeks ago. yesterday i had a visit from the other midwife in the home birth practice. She said my uterus was low and that I have a slight anterior bulge as well. We have had 3 babies in 3 years and wanted to continue on that track for a few more years but.... I thought I would share with you what she said about having more babies. She believes that prolapses can improve. She has faith in the body to heal. She feels that if i wait at least 2 years before thinking about getting pregnant again(and have stopped nursing for a period of time) that my body will experiance significant healing. She also recommended I try to gain 15-20lbs instead of the 27 i gained every other time and that I should try to lose 10-15lbs before getting pregnant for the fourth time (i am @ a healthy weight and have always been) and no pushing with the birth(is that even possible?). I am starting to think of all the wonderful set backs this medical problem has given me. and waiting to have another baby and paying attention to my body and how it heals is adefinatly one of those set backs.

I saw a surgen for my tear (midwife stitched but it didn't hold)
he told me that it would take longer to heal because I was breast feeding- but I don't really care if it takes forever - I want to breastfeed- I read on this site -somewhere else - that breastfeeding is good for the body.

You are right on about breastfeeding! It is good for you and your baby--the best ever. I would not trade a moment of breastfeeding my three children many years ago. Women were meant to breastfeed--why else would we have those funny looking knobs? Can't imagine where the surgeon got the idea that because you are breastfeeding it will take longer to heal. You have to get in a comfortable position to breastfeed and be still (loving every precious moment with your baby). To me that would contribute to healing not delay healing. Keep up the good work.

Hi,

I am a huge fan of breastfeeding, too. I would never have given it up. However, it is true that breastfeeding lowers your estrogen level and affects healing. On the other hand, it does release relaxation and feel-good hormones that are good for you and your baby.
Ann

Hi,

I am a huge fan of breastfeeding, too. I would never have given it up. However, it is true that breastfeeding lowers your estrogen level and affects healing. On the other hand, it does release relaxation and feel-good hormones that are good for you and your baby.
Ann

what is it about the low estrogen? is it only that it thins the vaginal wall? or are there other effects as well?
the flip side, of course, is that breastfeeding stimulates the uterus to contract, which I imagine in a postpartum mom would help reduce prolapse. 'course I have nothing scientific to base that on, just my thoughts.
has anyone here weaned and subsequently noticed a marked improvement of their prolapse? just wondering....

Hi,

Yea, I'm no expert either. Just speaking from experience and what the doc told me. My two very bad tears took a little longer to heal because I was breastfeeding. That's all. I'm sure breastfeeding helped in every other way, though: contracting the uterus, etc, etc.

When I weaned at 9 months, I felt a slight improvement, but for me, it was because most of my symptoms had to do with "atrophied" tissues from the tears.

Ann

I also had tears that didn't close. they healed, but remained open.

when you say you felt slight improvement after weaning, do you mean the prolapse got smaller or the tissues became thicker? or something else? I'm really curious, I've been bf and/or pg for since my first (she's almost 8) so I really have no idea what I would feel like with a 'normal' estrogen level.

Hi Granolamom,

The prolapse didn't change much from stopping breastfeeding. But the tissues were much less irritated (or as my OB described them, atrophied).

Ann

thanks for answering, I'm curious to see how things will change when I'm done bf.

I think you started here about the same time I did.....and I wondered how you were doing-glad to hear you are doing well.
I wrote something a while back about breast feeding and healing- see if you can find it- the gist was that as long as you are having a menstrual cycle then your estrogen levels are at normal and so is your healing potential-
I am still bfing and this baby is so big- I love this age.
we still want more too- but are giving it some time.......