Any one have experience with healthy meal plans for the frail elderly that prevents intestinal nerve damage

Body: 

Hi there,
I'm subtly trying various things to create smaller volume size bowel movements for my mom. It appears that more water does nothing for keeping bowels soft. I am alternating soaked chia, natural sauerkraut for enzymes with almost every meal, some animal protein, cooked veggies with each meal, hardly any gluten products except for when we go out,, and even then, it is just a little. Hardly much in the family of grains, but I do include a little oatmeal, quinoa just in case. Veggies from the squash family are a staple as are tomatoes. 3 x weekly there's beans and potatoes and spinach. There is an almost daily staple of blueberries with either raw milk cottage cheese.(not a lot)
raw goat kefir alternately for breakfast around 10ish am. SOmetimes no goat kefir and alternate with raw cow yogurt blended with flax oil... I give bone broth with approx 2 tbsp of soured juice pickles or sauerkraut, crushed garlic with some sea salt..... I have stopped using ground flax seeds thinking it was too much bulk... I give 2-3 oz liver or heart every few days for absorb-able B vitamins...
I can't seem to get my mom to have a BM every day. I also give 30 billion refrigerated probiotics daily. Sometimes i give two capsules. I have significantly decreased her fruit intake in the hopes to stop the thick nail growth and itchy feet. She seems to be improving and new nail growth is coming in WITHOUT nail fungus so perhaps we are starving out the yeast without so much fruit in her diet after all. I would gladly use vit C and magnesium citrate to create BM within an hour but one scientist said that act as an antacid stopping her own bodies digestive process and act as an antacid. He also said he did not want to see my mom's body lose the ability to extract the magnesium from foods on its own.
The other bit of conflicting info is from the book Fiber Menace that states too high a fiber diet creates large hard stools which destroys rectal nerve sensitivity.
I think that is the case but not sure. ANyone have any first hand experience in correcting this in the elderly population without the need for toxic stool softeners that cause bone loss issues? I am trying to increase once again, raw tomatoes, soaked chia seeds, low carb, high gelatinous fibre Shirataki noodles, with tons of fat to see if that helps her bowels move more. I want to try to add lots of soaked prunes and give coconut oil at the same time as the prunes so the sugar does not create a yeast overgrowth again. (never did a stool sample and never did a urine pyrolole to see if that is the root issue as per William WAlsh research) I do give crushed raw garlic approx 2 times daily. ALso take a walk after each meal for at least 10-15 min.. sometimes miss it tho....But she goes with my helper to the gym class 2 times a week. What am i missing/ Oh.. and she has sluggish thyroid and takes armour thyroid 30mg in the AM,, sometimes another armour 5 hours later and i am upping dulse to increase iodine.
I read somewhere that the lower colon stools get hard from a lack of salt but i have to find out which kind of salt. That could be it because her labs show a little low on sodium.

Forum:

Sounds like you are throwing a lot of different stuff into your mom's digestive system. I worked in the nursing homes for years, and one thing I noticed is that not everyone had a bowel movement every day, mostly because as we get older our bowels just plain slow down. Many of our patient's did well on a stool softener, or some stewed prunes. They were never left to go over 3 days without a bowel movement though. And. we were encouraged to make sure they were drinking water too. Many elderly people either forget to or just don't want to drink water.
Many elderly people do well on a softer blander diet as well, because another thing that happens with age is that our gastric juices diminish, making it harder for us to digest a lot of foods we formerly ate.
My advice is to give your poor old mom a rest, and maybe ask her what she wants to eat.

Why give mom a rest if she loves walking. Resting and immobility speeds up disease and creates a lag in motility? So are you saying we should not prolong the inevitable? If my mom had her way, she would only ask for nuts and be forever backed up a constipated. Thanks for the first hand experience. That helps.

What AG is suggesting is that you try a simpler diet with some basic measures to help regularity, and maybe not worry if she doesn't move her bowels every single day, as that may be her "normal" at this stage. Exercise, reasonable hydration, and a simple balanced diet including things she likes should do the trick. I myself eat a lot of nuts and have never found them to be constipating - quite the opposite in fact. I think you're trying too hard and your stress surely makes things worse. And there's nothing wrong with supplementing some magnesium. Hardly any of us get enough of that - I'm sure your mom could use it. - Surviving

Surviving hit it right on the nose. What she said is exactly what I am suggesting, and our elderly people were very mobile, so I don't know where you are getting that from.
The one thing I do know from your history here on the forum, is that you have this tendency to go overboard where your mom is concerned. All I see is you scurrying around trying this thing and then that thing until pretty soon none of it is working anymore.
When I say give it a rest, I mean try to enjoy your time with her. Because that time is precious.

I have been responsible for my elderly mother since 2010. She is now going on 94, extremely frail with very poor appetite. Though initially I experimented with other foods she might like, ultimately I've settled with keeping her on the basic diet she was following on her own, prior to that time. Simple and relatively well balanced (though certainly not what I would choose for myself). She also uses liquid supplements - I'm not a fan of those, but they seem to be well-tolerated. She gets enough fluids and moves around enough during the day, to keep her fairly regular. It is quite normal as aging progresses, for food preferences to change and quantities to decrease. I've found that reading and watching Barbara Karnes on the subject, has been most helpful for my overall perspective on all of this. - Surviving

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PPx-qpos57g

Beautiful video, Surviving. That was very much my experience with people and family members when I was working in hospice.
Acceptance of age and death are very hard for people in our society. There was a quote I recently saw that said that in America, death is an option. We try so hard to prolong life at any cost, and that is a real shame, when we should be really focusing on what we have in front of us right now.
Go out and smell the flowers and run your toes through the sand!

Maybe I am misunderstanding you or I haven't clarified the situation with my mom. She was going downhill health wise. SO are you saying that having an urgency to stop and restore the decline is prolonging the inevitable and that is wrong? I do smell the flowers, and dance, and we do lots of things so no worries in that area...

No, chickenfeet. That is not what we are saying, but on the other hand, using your mom as your own personal experiment is just wrong on so many levels. Geriatric care has become a booming business, and much has been done to prolong life. And that is fine as long as that person is enjoying the life that is being prolonged.
That is all we were saying.
I took care of some really healthy elderly people in the nursing home, some of them over 100, and their lives were simple. We didn't fuss with them, but just took care of their basic needs. And, they were happy people, but at the same time I would hear them say "Why did I have to live so long" or "Don't ever get old". I found over and over again that people that were 90 plus years on this earth had enough and were looking forward to the end of it.
Is that such a wrong thing to think?

I care for a relatively healthy but very frail 93-year-old mother who cannot be left alone. AG's post describes her to a T. There are many, many things I could and would change about her routine, in the interest of better health long-term, but I've found that the less I mess with the status quo, the better off we both are. In your mom's case, I'm not convinced that you couldn't teach her some simple steps to help her empty her bladder more completely - that's more than enough. - Surviving

No Aging, It is not such a wrong thing to have had enough and want to die. You make a good point.
If there is no family and no kin or significant others who want the person alive nor does the person have the ability to contribute, or is considered a burden on only one person or a bunch of unrelated hired strangers, then i too would want a quick and speedy exit.
National Geographic did a large study called Blue Zones and within these blue zones, (areas of the world where there are large pockets of active mentally and physically healthy centenarians)Their longevity is a result of good food, continuous physical activity and being integrated into their community where the elderly are still contributing and have a purpose. They are mobile at 100. Why not strive to implement that higher model of aging into our culture? Why not try to find out why there is inflammation and not just bandaid a health issue with an antibiotic?

Yes, I have heard of the blue zones, and if you read my first paragraph again, you will see that I did say that as long as the person is enjoying the life that is being prolonged. And, I do mean prolonged naturally, by good food, family, exercise, community involvement, etc. The people I did take care of had very little invasion into their lives, and they were happy people, at least the ones that had that involvement.
My husband and I were actually talking about getting that old, and I wondered after seeing things repeat so much over and over through life that a person wouldn't just get bored of the whole thing at that point. I am sure there are those that can keep themselves busy enough with new activities on a continuous basis to stay happy, but sometimes there are those that just want to take a rest from it all. They are content with the life they have lead and experienced.
The one important thing that I learned while working in hospice is that the people that had unfinished business, things they so wanted to do but didn't, were the ones that had the hardest time accepting death. That was a very important lesson for me to get out there and do those things.

I don't consider myself "prolonging" my moms life. I feel I have a duty to provide accurate toileting management of her prolapse when the posture cannot be maintained and preventing urine retention when the cognition and comprehension is not allowing the particular position for emptying the bladder. It is that simple.
. You are sharing wise observations and i appreciate the insight which i can reflect upon.
But what are you referring to when you say invasion?

I wasn't even thinking of your mom when I used that term. I was referring to all the maintenance drugs that they put so many elderly people on, which probably aren't even necessary in the first place. I think we can agree on that.
I hadn't realized how unnecessary so many of them are until I started working in hospice. People would come into the hospice and given the choice to go off the drugs, and they would actually start feeling better. It was amazing to watch!
I also remember my husband's grandmother going on one drug and then another to offset the effects of the previous, until she was on so many, they would take her off all of them and start over. Drug companies and doctors are just so out of control.

I am the sole caretaker of my 93 year old mother and I have also worked with Elders in a retirement community. I have had great results for my mom and myself with supplementing whole foods with extra nutrients, like magnesium citrate, particularly, for better bowel movements. I also feel that too many prescription drugs end up causing more problems, long term, than they help. Of course, certain medical treatments, long term, are necessary, but even though everyone has different needs, we all benefit from a natural, healthy lifestyle and loving support from our family and friends.

My mom had two good bowel movements 2 days in a row and the prolapse is not there...!
Yes.. i did the magnesium citrate but that does not always work for what ever reason. But today it did along with some other concoctions....Hope it continues ....

Thank you for your input. Can you tell me the time that you gave the magnesium? Was it first thing on an empty stomach with soley plain water or did you make a mixture of that and other supplements or with ACV ? Did you find that giving it one way worked better than another?