first pessary issues to solve...suggestions?

Hi GBHA and welcome. We are not big pessary fans here, and don't have many active members who use them regularly. Though we do have some with experience, who might be able to answer your questions. With rectocele I am not surprised you have issues; they often push the pessary out, and even if they don't, they can aggravate the rectocele and worsen it. All in all, I don't think you are doing yourself much good in the long run. Hope you will check out our content and give some thought to natural prolapse management. Start here:

https://wholewoman.com/newpages/video/ww101.html

That will give you an overview of what we are all about. Hope you'll give it some thought. - Surviving

I did try the pessary , I loved it at first , then it did start to push out. But the bad part is after a while I started getting infections from the perrary. so I kept trying the pessary through about 6 infections.
I stopped using it and started to go on long walks. I also bought the book THAT YOU CAN ORDER ON THIS SITE. and started reading it ,followed the directions. NOW ABOUT 3 YEARS LATTER BLADDER HAS MOVED BACK INTO PLACE MUCH BETTER,
AND I AM DOING GOOD. NO MORE INFECTIONS.

I've got a feeling I'm going to introduce myself to you ladies by letting off some steam that's been building up! October 24th 2017, (happy quarter-birthday, womb-kins!) I squatted to pick something up off the floor, and out popped my cervix, with no warning. Commendations to Christine for saying it like it is when she says, 'Imagine the shock.' So my first gripe is that although I'm reading that prolapse is quite common, I'd never heard of it, and I'm 62 years old in a few days' time. Periods, I was told about as a child, so I knew to expect them. Menopause, I learnt about later and knew to expect that. So I thought all those reproductive bits were over and done with. Now I find there's something else to expect and no-one told me.

Second gripe is that no-one tells me what to DO about it. Periods - yes, the shelves are full of products for those, so you know what to use. THIS - I went to the doctor a.s.a.p. and said, 'I thought it was some kind of wart growing on me, but how did it get so huge so suddenly? Then I thought it was a blister and tried to prick it with a needle but it wouldn't go away. Then I realised it was not growing ON me but coming out from IN me, and looked up photos on the internet until I recognised it by its appearance. So can you give me something to push it back in, please?' I thought there must be things in the shops for this, same as there are tampons and sanitary towels for menstruation, but I hadn't seen them because I hadn't been looking for them. Well, if this 'secret epidemic' is that common ... ! Apparently not. I'm English. Everywhere I look, I find British women saying the same old thing: our NHS waves pessaries at us, called rings and gellhorns, and if we protest, they tell us there's only surgery. Well, what about right now, today, this minute?' I asked, incredulous, and as someone on this site said, 'Nothing. Zilch. Nada.' Well, how would we feel if we were kids again and were told, 'I see you've started menstruating. Work it out for yourself; flannels, bits of newspaper, whatever you can find,' because nothing is provided?

Now, these pessary objects look like curtain rings and coat-hooks, to me. I looked on American and mainland European websites, and, my goodness, what an array you people have that we are not offered in Britain! - kitchen sink strainers, hair-bun-makers, rubber stamps, belt-buckles, Christmas-tree baubles, hamster toys, sink plungers, dolls' house toilet seats ... I've never beheld such a ridiculous medley of contraptions in my life and it looks as if they've raided a hardware store. I've entered a whole new world of insanity if these are really designed to go up our vaginas.

Anyway, after a few days, the doc tried to buffet me with one of these curtain rings, and I had a panic attack because I wasn't expecting such brute force. So she made a hospital appointment, which takes me to the end of November. All they did there was the 'take it or leave it' approach with another curtain ring, and this time forced it in, which was agony. No sooner in, than, 'Come back in six months.' I'd read, by then, that these Brobdingnagian polo mints were supposed to be tested for fit and such-like, but there was none of that. Home that night, and it was lying flat across the vaginal opening with flesh billowing out all round and in a mirror I could see the outline through my skin stretching right back to the anus. Needless to say, bowel movements would be impossible, to back to the original doc, who yanked it back out, much to my relief, though I felt lacerated and it made me bleed, and I mean not just through the vagina, but the surrounding skin and labia were kind of split with vertical shred-lines by the force that had to be used. So far on my new journey, I've found that the 21st century standard treatment for prolapse is:- punishment. Ask the system for help and all you get is Torture By Pessary.

Next gripe is therefore, why on earth do they make them so huge? I've since tried various ideas of my own with different materials and cannot get anything wider than an inch into my vagina, yet these monsters come in a minimum of two inches circumference, and the ones they inflicted on me were 2.5 and then 2.25 inches across. I've been told that women use the 'button into buttonhole' technique, which is fine as long as you're not trying to put a 2.5" button into a 1" hole. But I see you get folding ones in the USA, so maybe that's how you manage it. I'm no virgin but no-one has ever said to me that my vaginal opening is any smaller than anyone else's, so I can't work out what's going on here. We're bound to get less elastic with age, too. You people here get my approval, because you sensibly point out that if organs are dropping down, the last thing we need is our vaginas dilated so that they become a funnel cum dumping-ground for whatever can slip down, so even if the vile things DID squash in without tearing me apart, I hate the thought of them springing to such a massive width inside me. Because of this 'giantess' mystery making me feel like a freak, I got my cervix level with the opening so I could hold a tape-measure across it: seven-eighths by five-eighths (16 x 22 mm). I don't NEED anything wider than this, to prop it up!

This brings me to people on this website saying you are not fans of pessaries here, because you go in for 'natural prolapse management'. Sounds good to me, but as yet, I do not know what this is, despite many visits to the site. Whatever it is, it is not going to get my cervix back inside me today or tomorrow, so I'm wondering, what do you ladies use, if not pessaries? You say, 'Do not be afraid to feel the bulge,' which I don't understand either, as it rubs against my underwear, sticks to it, dries out, prevents my vagina from closing, which in turn makes that sore and dry, makes sitting upright so uncomfortable that I've been using a donut-cushion for when I can't be horizontal, and a uterus has no skin designed for the open air so, yes, I am afraid - of sores. Mine is a healthy organ, but only provided that it is kept moist. It chafes when walking and I've been hobbling in very tiny steps to minimise the friction. This is no way to live, so I've had to stuff something up, and got my life back when I discovered a tampon-like device made in Germany. I can't believe you ladies put up with yours just hanging right out, so would someone please tell me what you 'no pessary' folk are using to keep your bits tucked up inside you, because I want it too! You wouldn't believe the things I've tried!

I've got so much more to say and find out, but that'll do for now. I'll save 'exercises' and 'surgery' for another time! Thanks for reading!

Hi ventadorn and welcome,
When we say don't be afraid of the bulge, we mean that it can teach us what not to be doing, and know that we have the tools with whole woman to alleviate those symptoms.
I also came here with a severely prolapsed uterus, and Christine actually started her research into this after a surgery induced profound uterine prolapse. There are many of us who found our prolapse this way, and with the postural work and the many tools and information, we have gone on to lead very happy lives.
You can use raw local honey for vaginal health and coconut, olive oil, or barrier creams for the initial chafing, but the goal of the whole woman work is to keep that cervix inside.
If you haven't found any of this out yet here on this site, then you need to keep reading. There is the blog and much more information at the top tool bar, and much practical advice right here on the forum. She also talks about pessaries, so nothing is left out of the conversation.
I would also suggest that you start with the First Aid for Prolapse video as a beginning into this work.
If you have anymore questions, please let us know.

Your post completely cracked me up. But I realize you are in need of some help. I'd suggest starting with this video for an overview of the Whole Woman work. Enjoy! - Surviving

https://wholewoman.com/newpages/video/ww101.html

Thanks for your replies, Surviving and Aging.

I feel I am talking at cross-purposes to everyone else. On further reading, it seems some women feel a bulge INSIDE their vagina because it is full of womb, and THAT'S what you mean by a bulge. I understood it to mean the lump OUTSIDE the body when the neck of the womb has gone all the way down into the vagina and proceeded to come out of the bottom of the vagina, so it's now in the open air where we can SEE it. I had no inkling there was anything wrong with me at all, until it suddenly popped right out when I was in mid-sentence chatting to someone on the phone! Everyone else seems to be talking of uterine prolapse as something gradual, but for me, it was THAT QUICK, and I've only learnt since then, of what must have been happening prior to that awful moment.

When I talk of 'keeping the uterus inside' I do not mean it in the sense of not having it surgically removed; what I mean is literally getting it back inside the vagina so it isn't hanging out, getting cold, dry and sore.

I feel I am only getting suggestions so far - for the longer term. Apart from the expense, video streaming is fine if you know what it is, and for if and when you want to look at it. My computer knowledge is very basic, so I don't even know what it is. Improving my posture is fine, but that is something I can work on gradually. Exercises are fine and I am prepared to do them every day if that is what it takes. I'm not knocking it, but none of this is going to solve the problem TODAY:- the problem of what to wear.

With no bung, the things I used to do sitting up, I now do lying on my front, propped on my elbows. When my cervix sticks to my underwear, if I am at home I can waddle around in a skirt, with no underwear. When no-one's looking at me, I can periodically adjust myself so as to get some warmth back on to my cold cervix. I've developed a technique of wrapping it up in the labia and pushing up on those because I don't like to touch my cervix directly with my fingers as that only dries it out more. But I can't keep playing with my vagina when I'm in public. For the past three months I have been wearing a skirt every day. Going out, and wearing jeans, is out of the question when I am like this, so it's my day to day life that has had to change. In the immediate term, I just want a bung, to keep my cervix inside my vagina; everything else, I can work on later. My point is that if I just want to go for a short walk, I don't know what to do. I'm running around like a headless chicken saying, "What can I stuff up there?" I cannot lead a normal life. To me, it's like I've grown a mini penis which I can't sit on and can't waddle bow-legged around.

I thought that if I used an analogy with menstruation, people would know where I was coming from. If I came on here and said there was blood coming out of my vagina and it's staining everything I sit on, but I didn't know what to wear to prevent this, people would immediately tell me about tampons and so forth, and you wouldn't tell me that if I watched the sun rise or spent hours reading up on anatomy, it would make the situation better. I can't see the difference between this, and coming here saying there's a lump, like a goblin's crawled up my vagina and is sticking his thumb out, and nobody has told me what to wear.

I have no objection to paying for products and services, but I do believe that help and advice should be given freely. I feel my life has suddenly had to stop, while I spend hours and hours every day doing nothing but trying to find out how to safely push my womb back up inside my vagina, as I can't use the only pessaries provided by the doctors and hospitals. I've read loads of very good comments on this site that are brimming with plain common sense and good ideas for the ideal pessary-shape, but still haven't got the answer: what are people with 3rd or 4th degree uterine prolapse or 'procidentia' going to be using, this very day, before they get dressed and go out and about their daily business? People could tell me, in just one sentence, but the answer seems very elusive. I feel completely alone and as if I can't trust anyone, if they know the answer but won't tell me.

I would love to think of you all as friends, being in a similar situation, but I can't yet do this if I am told to 'get into Whole Woman work' - and I've got to go out and meet someone in half an hour and don't know what 'cervix protection' to put into my body before I can even get dressed. I am willing to give anything a try, but, for three months, I have been asking, "What do I do this very minute?" and squatting over a mirror trying out corks and coins and lumps of polystyrene and anything that happens to be lying around in the house. Do you see what I mean?

There are support garments you can buy (Google those) and there are pessaries. I don't believe there are any other choices, if you are looking at what to do right this minute. This is precisely why so many women end up being talked into going under the knife, which invariably makes things worse. It is a difficult situation with no quick fix. But we have members here (including Christine herself) who have conquered your exact problem with commitment, over time. - Surviving

ventadorn,
I did find my cervix sticking out when I was in the shower one day, and yes, I went into a tizzy. I didn't know which way to turn, and then Found whole woman. The answers are here, but you also have to do the work to get that cervix to stay up inside your vagina. For me, that meant doing everything: the posture, the exercises, toileting posture which requires us not to be sitting heavily on the seat, whole woman walking , shoving the uterus back up(you can use the oil if your cervix is dry), and then jiggling and firebreathing several times a day.
I also suggested to you using honey, olive oil, coconut oil, or barrier creams for the dryness and chafing.
We may think that it happened all of a sudden. I know I did at first, but in hindsight, the symptoms were there.
I also want to say that this isn't an emergency as much as we may think it is when we first find this kind of significant prolapse, but in reality it was a long time in coming for some of us, but with this work, these symptoms can be improved.
I also thought of shoving things inside me, but I wasn't even keeping a tampon inside during my periods anymore, but I didn't realize I was prolapsing. You can read about all kinds of things women have used on this forum, even from Christine herself, but these are only short term fixes and can tend to irritate the soft tissues of the vagina, and they keep the vagina open when it should be a closed airless space.
It is really up to you how you want to proceed.
Best wishes.

Oh, dear! To me, it IS an emergency, and nothing will make me change my mind about that. I can't sit, stand, walk, drive, cycle - or anything - normally, with this lump between my legs. Being relatively new to this, I was kind of putting you folk to the test to find out how forthcoming you were, as I am being pulled this way and that by different people and trying to take everything in. If my house is on fire, I am not going to sit in it worrying about how to redecorate. I am going to run, and I'll want those flames put out, fast. Similarly, if I want to have a life, and run it myself instead of letting my prolapse run my life for me, and meet friends and go shopping or whatever, I can't go out with just NOTHING. That's why I used the menstruation analogy. If I were still having periods, I wouldn't go out with NOTHING. I can't tell people, "Sorry, I can't come out, as I need to plod through hours of reading matter. I can't see you today, as I need to do the work to get my cervix up. I can't meet you as I need to conquer my problem with commitment, over time." I live alone, and refuse to live like a hermit, lying down all day and straining my eyes staring at a computer. Before I can work up any enthusiasm for longer-term solutions - and believe me, the enthusiasm is there, because I am damned if I am going to let anyone chop bits out of me just because they are in the wrong place and will do anything in my power to keep my body whole - I do need the 'quick fix' in the meantime, to take off the pressure. Once I know that I can go out and do things like I could before, I'll be able to concentrate on everything else I need to know. If it isn't a spare time occupation, then it's running my life. I am determined to do it all, but, for me, it has to be quick fix now, and slow fix later. It has to be done in the right order.

I've looked at those garments on the net, and reckon that even if I wore a steel plate in my crotch, the uterus would only press it down. No exterior support is going to get that uterus right up where it belongs, way up there somewhere, even if it managed to keep it inside, and I don't see how it could even do that. I mean, if your tongue had come loose on its moorings, and you were to lean forward with your mouth open, no gag would keep it inside your mouth, would it?

I've looked up 'pessaries' and all but the cube are much, much too big for me. My vaginal opening is simply physically INCAPABLE of accommodating anything more than an inch wide, and I've tried so hard, like telling myself, "Think wide!" and using as many fingers as I can to tug it open in different directions - and it just won't GO any wider. They talk of 'healthcare professionals' having to ensure a pessary is the right fit, but if the smallest rings they make, which is all we are offered here in Britain, are twice the size of the opening through which they have to go, there is no such thing as a right fit, so I can't fathom out what's going on here. It's not as if I'm a generally small person, as I'm taller than average at 5'9".

I've tried beeswax, and sponge, you name it and if I've read someone saying they've tried it, so have I by now. Just think: if you were to push something up, right to the top, and if only, only, it could stay there without following your finger back down as soon as you withdraw it, wouldn't the rest of the vagina close up underneath it? I would imagine so, but it can't close up through ANY of its length if it is jammed full of womb. Just a thought. I'm confused, as I've read the vagina has wide corners at the very top, called fornices, so it opens out at the top anyway. I thought the idea of a pessary was to wedge it between those corners and leave the rest of the 'tube' empty - and there is your airless space. Have I got that wrong?

Looks as if I'll have to keep buying those expensive German PVA foam disposable pessaries, then, though I find that as well as slipping straight down even though I use a hairbrush handle to ram them up high, they dry out and get scratchy after a couple of hours. I was hoping to find a better alternative. Despondent!

ventadorn,
There are women that come to whole woman and see the solution it offers; that was me, and it clicked right away what I needed to do. And then there are those that don't see it, and we are not here to convince them, you, otherwise.
We are only here to direct you through this site and all the avenues it offers.
As, I have said before, it really is up to you to decide where you want to go. Sorry we couldn't have been more help to you, and I wish you well on your journey where ever that may take you.