Why is it getting worse???

sorry to tell you, but the same thing happened to me. after finding this site and starting with the posture things initially got worse. I also developed a rectocele (started out with just a cystocele).

In my case, I felt that the 'worsening' was inevitable, it took years and years for the prolapse to develop and overstretched fascia and ligaments weren't going back to their original shape and size overnight.
I was, however, completely devastated. If this doesn't work, then what else is out there? unfortunately nothing. this HAD to work and I honestly didn't think I could cope with things getting worse.

I will tell you that things got worse and then they got better. and better. and better. I got to the point where I no longer thought about my 'celes on a daily basis, was back to my exercise routine, running around with the kids and even felt confident enough to go ahead and have another one.

a week is not a long time at all. I can totally relate to your feelings of devastation, but I think you need to give it some more time. hormonal shifts can cause all sorts of changes too, and your being only 4 months PP makes me think that might be coming into play.
by the way, are you breastfeeding? not that I think that has a direct impact on prolapse, but if the baby's eating more or less suddenly, your hormones can go wacky for a day or two.

so what can you do? try to stay positive, keep on doing the things that you know to be good for your body and soul and try (I know how hard this one is!) to take one day at a time - no worrying about it getting worse tomorrow!

((((hugs))))

After doing the posture I also developed a rectocele (or the symptoms of it)but I think it is all part of the process. Many people start with prolapse of one or two organs and then gradually things get worse until they start to get better. For me I think my cystocele and uterus prolapse took over in the beginning so I didn't notice the rectocele. It is possible that you have always had a rectocele but since trying the posture you have helped your other prolapses which leaves more room for your rectocele to protrude. That is what happened in my case. I have no symptoms 90% of the time from my cystocele but now it is the rectocele I struggle with.

Hi Reka -
I just delivered 20 days ago and found a cystocele and rectocele once I came home from the hospital. I actually thought my uterus had prolapsed or that I had a hematoma developing under the vaginal tissue. I paniced!! I'm still trying to adjust to the news of the rectocele and the cystocele. Like you said, my vagina is crowded with the cystocele and rectocele. I finally got past the constipation on Feb. 12...away from taking laxatives just to go to the bathroom, to having to use a laxative once again yesterday. I was starting to feel better about the rectocele until I had to use the laxative yesterday, not to mention this was my birthday too so depression set in. I had also been experiencing fullness but I thought the cystocele was causing my bladder not to empty completely and I just wasn't use to the feelings caused by the cystocele. I started bending all the way over on the toilet just to make sure my bladder emptied completely or as next to completely as I could get. Since the rectocele is bulging now due to the constipation it's pushed my cystocele back up a bit and I'm peeing more like I use too. I guess either your going to have trouble doing one function or the other. I'm already tired of this and know I have a long way to go. What has your Dr. recommended since you're post-partum too? Mine just says to wait it out!! I haven't ordered the book yet, so I'm not familiar with all the techniques your using to cause the celes to get worse or better. I've just been praying for a miracle:) I'll do the same for you:)
Hoping you feel better,
My4sons

okay reka:

i totally get how freaked out you are. get it 100%. honestly, i had the same experience. when i was first diagnosed, i thought it was just the rectocele. that was all i felt. when i got the perscription for the pt from m y gyn about a week later, i completely lost it when it said rectocele AND cystocele. and, a few weeks into all this work, i think the cystocele protruded a bit more. and i just panicked, thinking i would to spend my life in bed for fear of even moving an inch and making anything worse. as granolamom already said, though, things were already set up to shift at that time and so, they did.

okay. so here you are.

a few things come to mind right away. you are SERIOUSLY post partum. a lot of women seem to have many changes in the first year so i do think there is a good chance of that happening for you. and here's the other thing: after i found this site and then the cystocele became more prominent -- felt like a one step back moment to me, i'll tell you -- with all the encouragement from the women here, i kept moving forward with the posture, big diet changes, working with a pt person (doesn't seem to work for everyone, though its been great for me) and i've got to tell you, just a little less than 3 months into this, i really feel quite great. stomping around the city as much as ever, back at the gym..seriously, most days not feeling the prolapses at all. my husband says he doesn't feel anything any different during sex (and, with all the pelvic floor work, things feel waaaaaay more intense for me -- in a good way!)

have i had setback days? yes. i have. there are days when i just have a sensation of the bulge more. those are generally days when i'm tired. however, that doesn't mean ALL days i'm tired i notice that. in fact, today is a good case in point. i am VERY tired about, again, no awareness of the prolapses. i also went through a really rough patch of severe constipation. that was awful. once i passed through that, though, it was a turning point for my rectocele feeling so much better. (that was what i was originally diagnosed with and really felt distracting to me.)

also, just so you know, i can tell you things have physically improved for me. my recotcele doesn't feel at all as bulgey as it did earlier on. the whole area feels firmer and tighter -- i suspect the posture and getting the diet thing worked out helped out, but for me, too, probably the kegels i was taught to do over about 3 hours. seriously. it took quite a long time. again, though, there are many women who do not find kegels at all effective so i think every one is different there.

okay, this has been long but i just wanted to reach out to you and, again, just remind you that you are so newly post partum. i suspect alot will change over this first year. i wouldn't have believe it if someone had told me when i first came on to this site that i would feel the way i do now -- i, too, was devastasted and just felt, i don't know, very damaged, somehow. i'm 43 and just felt like i was falling apart -- literally -- that i would never have sex again, and that i might as well go into a corner and just dry up. seriously. i felt that extreme about it. it was a really scary place to be as i'd never felt like that before. but i am here to tell that that, truly, that has all shifted. i feel more powerful and sexual, frankly, than ever. go figure, huh? never would have thought it.

okay, sweetie. please take care of yourself. rest as much as you can. eat well. try to incorporate the posture into your day as much as you can. do you have the dvd? i like that exercise grouping. i am trying to get into the habit of doing it a number of times a week. i have to really hunker down and learn the new exercises -- haven't really done that yet. but, you know what? i've decided it's okay. i have lots time to learn it and so do you. you will be fine. really.

xxsusan

Yea this is something I struggle with- You are doing all you can do and you feel like it is getting worse..... Granolamom gave me some good advice-find the good- if your uterus drops- it won't be able to get out.
Bargaining- I am doing the same thing - At first I thought if this is as bad as it is going to get I can handle it- then I developed a cystocele......now if this is as bad as it gets I can handle it- and the truth is no matter what happens I only have this life and this body and I can do with it what I choose. If I want to be depressed and feel betrayed I can do that- or I can accept it for what it is and be happy-or I can do both on the same day- all I can really tell you to do it get cool with it- If it doesn't hurt and it's not going to kill you- live your life.....love, laugh, enjoy that baby - it all just goes so so fast.

Hi Susan,

With all love and respect, and a dose of naiveté since I’ve never had PT, will you try your best to describe why it took three hours to learn kegels? I wouldn’t ask you this unless I was curious about the reasons why PT is valued so by women.

Hugs and thanks,

Christine

I really am wondering about it too. I had PT for a month...
I had a physical appt where she had me kegel and then she felt the muscles--at the entrance, mid and then deeper towards where my cervix/uterus was. She said the lower muscles were strong and upper but the middle area of the vagina she couldn't feel the contractions...well I thought makes sense I have rect & cyst--obviously the middle area is the prolapse right?? My uterus was up high and where it was supposed to be when I went in to the Doc because I suspected prolapse at 6 weeks post partum. The PT said I "knew" how to do them and then I really wonder about that "DO you do them right" line...I mean they tell you that you know how to do them right if you are pulling in your rectum/or holding your urine stream...who can't figure that out? I read my sheet of instructions from the PT and thought how could you be doing them wrong??? When they use that line I think it is another way of blaming me for the prolapse you know...LAZY KEGEL SYNDROME...and then the PT told me it isn't a muscle defect anyhow...it is the fascia...
Personally I bulge a lot more when I do the kegels and I also feel the falling out feeling a lot more.
I would bet my flippin' pelvic muscles against any other woman's earth anyhow before I prolapsed.
THERE I SAID IT! I know I was strong. I have birthed 5 babies on MY OWN without any pain medication, breathing all the way, laughing and fully participating and was at the kitchen sink washing up the dishes the next day...I know I was strong. I bet if you could have attached my pelvic floor to a vacuum tube I could have done better than BISSEL or HOOVER...I know it wasn't my fault. I had kegeled since I heard the word kegel at age 21--first child. I did them right and I did them often--NO I did not follow a kegel schedule, I admit that I did not time myself while kegeling and I never played any kegels games...I never mountain climbed with the kegels either, but I know I was strong and well made. My first DR with my first baby did the internal exam and literally said I was MADE to have babies. I would never have a problem birthing any baby...so there--I have finally said it.

I FEEL LIBERATED!!!

!@#$%^the kegels and that kegel line.

I hope no one is offended but if I have to hear once more I probably didn't kegel right blah blah I will LAUGH:)
Just seeing this post and Christine asking about it made all my Kegel anger POP (hahahaha) out.

It is Ash Wednesday and I haven't eaten but one meal...could be my excuse...

I just had the biggest laugh about your last post. I bet it felt GOOD!! !@#$%^the kegels and that kegel line. I couldn't have said it better myself. And I know why you haven't eaton but one meal today. You ate too many pancakes yesterday, like me!

Cheers

Louise

I did notice things got alot worse after a good dose of Kegels myself lol

I think Kegels are over rated - They just like to turn the tables on us and blame us for what is in all effects a human syndrome. We stand upright - Therefore our organs are 'Over the cavern' so to speak - Falling out for women is something that HAS to be addressed by posture - And we can (And I did) Kegel ourselves into stupidity - It wont help much - All we will do is tire out the muscle and make things worse...

I love your post - Made me smile :)

well, i am really terrible at describing these things as i get "tongue" tied or finger tied, i guess is really the case.

when i went to my gyn, she told me to kegel just like bearing "up" and do 100 a day. okay. whatever. i tried that. didn't seem to do much for me. in fact, THAT felt worse. when i went to the pt (whom, of course i DID NOT get from my gyn as gyn had no one to suggest!) here were the issues that came up -- that there are many muscular layers through the vagina -- she spoke of the one ones front and back, side to side, really talked me through them to understand that she wants me to be able to strengthen them all -- that were pretty much impossible for me to utilize to strengthen because i couldn't feel the separate muscles. does that make sense? what took so long was for me to really figure out not only the control, but actually feeling the control of the various muscles. when i do the kegels now - and i do not do tons of them a day at all, maybe 20, 25? -- i slowly feel the flex sort of sensation and the pulling up and flattening of it all. yet without a sense of pressure -- which i was worried about with the rectocele. god, i am really struggling here to describe it, but there it is. she didn't want me to be unconscious with doing them so it just took a boat load of time. and i suspect my experience with my gyn was the way it usually looks as far as kegel discussions which, for me as well, wasn't effective at all.

and again, i totally get that there are many women on this site who either don't think they're useful or, worse, are detrimental. i didn't have that experience in the least and, frankly, lucky for me,i guess, found the pt experience having a lot of pieces in it that remind me of christine's work (a lot of the exercises are similar which, again, lucky me that maybe i just found someone who does really good work!)

as i'm sure my own personal experience is respected by other women here, i, in turn, feel great respect for anyone else's road and choices made. if talking about this somehow feels like it interferes with christine's vision, i will certainly not discuss it again.

xxsusan

I can relate. I have been struggling with my rectocele getting worse despite all efforts and now I notice my cystocele, which I suspect was always there, is giving me trouble. I am due to deliver in a few weeks and can't wait to see what happens postpartum. I am trying to be hopeful, but this last month has really really stunk!! I am so glad we can talk to each other about these things. Keep your chin up:)

HUGS,

bigmomma

Susan you are one of the sweetest women here. Honestly I feel that way. I didn't mean anything insulting to you at ALL. I just feel like the Drs and the PTs etc use the "incorrect" kegels as an excuse to blame me for it. It was the first thing out of the Drs mouth "Have you been doing your kegels?" Then the PT..."well, yes you have them right but you never did them on the same schedule or with the intensity I will have you doing them"
I need them to produce just ONE woman who has kegeled herself out of a prolapse. They admit that they cannot ever do that. I asked.
I mean if I had such control over prolapse why was I NEVER TOLD ABOUT PROLAPSE? As a mother of 5 Children all vaginally delivered from 7 12 oz to 10 6 oz's--why wasn't I told? They knew I had terrible constipation problems--went to the Dr specifically about that...never brought up kegels then or even the word prolapse!! Only after I prolapsed as if to say that was why...
I also have discovered that the reason I always had to push so hard giving birth--hard enough that I broke ALL the blood vessels in my face, shoulders and chest and eyes...and my babies, was they had me pushing before I EVER felt the need. I thought I was defected and they HAD to tell me to push...I am reading things and they are supposed to WAIT until you have the urge!
So you know what I think? I think these people are at the best-ignorant and at the worst they were not telling me things I needed to know and advised me so incorrectly ...I don't think they can help me now! If the Kegels are the cure they would be the prevention!
Like Constipation...when I went in for that did they spend and hour on diet or etc? No--they told me what laxatives to use!!!! That won't help will it? They act like it isn't even something I should go to the dr for but look at our posts...is not our food one of the things we have to be SOOOO careful about? Isn't our food one of the things that really effects us? I mean if a 40 year woman walks in and admits she has struggled with constipation for 40 years wouldn't it be wise to help her with it? But they aren't geared that way I guess...
I am glad your PT is helping you and the way she has worked with you and I admit the PT I went to was helpful but mainly because I felt it was good to have a place to go to right away and see I could move my body and nothing would fall out and hit the floor--and if it did I thought well, she can help me pick it up then! Ha!!
I guess I wish they would close all the PT's for this and open up A Christine Studio for us... in every city, town and village. I would like another woman to look into my eyes and say "you can live well with prolapse" and not look at me with eyes screwed up and say "that falling out feeling is really uncomfortable isn't it?--let's see if you can do this excercise"
I gave the PT I had Christine's brochure and she is supposed to call to see how I am doing in a while...at least that is what she told me and I will ask her if she read the brochure, if she even went to the site...it is her field right? I mean if it was my field I guess I would at least read everything I could get MY hands on to find out about and if the answer is NO she never even bothered then I will really wonder if well, I will really wonder if they are really interested in helping us or not.

i totally hear you, therese. i really do. and, yeah, a christine studio in every city would be just amazing. can only agree.

i do want to clarify that i do NOT think kegels cure by any stretch of the imagination. no. not at all. and even as to that word? just don't know. and i also agree COMPLETELY with the way it can be used as finger wagging and, well, that's seriously screwed up. i gotcha and agree totally. for me, and i realize this has been my own experience up to now, they are just a PART of a very big picture. they have been useful for me along with a host of other things, you know? i kind of view all different modalities -- even this work -- as separate pieces from which i must choose and pick what both feels best and works best for me. i just don't know that any one thing can be 100% all to me. and so i am willing to experiment and see how i feel, let some things go, try to integrate others. homeopathy has worked very effectively for some women, not others. acupuncture...same thing. i guess i just wanted to say what my experience is just so others also see the choices. again, though, if that doesn't feel appropriate on the site, that's cool. i respect that and will remember that from here on out. my e-mail works now (hurray! thank you so much person who took care of that!) and any one is totally welcome to e-mail me. so i'm happy to leave it at that.

and, by the way, therese, the notion of having someone look you in the eyes and say what you suggested literally brought tears to my eyes. yes. that would be beyond incredible. to have that grounding and confidence in real life...whew. i can only wish it to be.

anyways, i love hearing what you have to say and thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify. i think it fell short, but i guess i'll have to be satisfied as it was the best i can do. now let's hope that fall didn't screw me up. i'm actually much calmer now. came inside and took some arnica, did a bunch of exercises and reiki (i really am all over the map with stuff i'm doing, aren't i? yeesch!) and just thought, well, i can't live in a bubble and if things feel set back for a bit? screw it. i can handle it -- i am confident that if there is one step back, i will move forward again. my body is so much more resiliant than i've ever given it credit for. and this has all been an amazing reminder of that.

love to you.

xxsusan

Just want to chime in in support of everyone.

I too have found the whole kegel phalacy thing confusing and downright annoying. I think they helped me to "tone" things a little post partum, and have definitely not hurt me, but I too got really annoyed by my PT as that is all she had to offer with no research to back it up. (I know I posted on this a while back).

It is so great that we are all here helping each other through this in various ways. Thank goodness that we have somewhere to come to ask questions and get proper answers, not the "maybes" and "not sures" we seem to get from the so called experts, but real "on the front line" advice and help. I think everyones contribution is so valuable here.

Anyway, just my two cents worth.

Therese, your post made me really laugh. You go girl! The thing is, the medics don't have a clue what to do and how to advise us. I had a few hilarious appointments with a physio. She told me to stop my urine mid-flow on every wee, then proceeded to lecture me about kegels and told me I wasn't doing them right. She told me to squeeze everything together - ie, lie down, cross my legs over, arms down to the side and squeeze like mad. So I did. And I was in agony! She then told me swimming wouldn't be any good for me either. Needless to say, I didn't go back.......They made it out that it was all my fault as my pelvic floor was now, how did they term it...."lax". Hmph!!!And as for the vaginal weights.....don't get me going on those!

WHEW!!! I feel a great sense of relief and validation. My sense of it is just like Therese’s and I agree with Sue that prolapse is a postural problem that can only be addressed posturally. The intensities can change – we even do things that literally throw the organs back toward their natural positions – but for all the reasons I’ve described elsewhere, it’s all about the larger framework, which exercises vagina, fascia and muscles alike – in the right direction. I’ve sent dozens of the book and video to PTs over the years and have no doubt many have adapted elements of my work, but I think the old-timers here will agree that before 2003 there was NOTHING being offered from PT but kegels, more kegels, and variations of kegels.

Not that it isn’t important to wake those muscles up occasionally, such as after a very difficult delivery. Louise described to me her post-partum experience with e-stim that reminded me of the paddles used in cardiac arrest! But I must agree with Theresa…all of those subtleties they talk about are entirely lost on me and do not add up anatomically. It seems to me another version of the “King”s Clothing”…“Can’t you SEE it???”

Susan, this is not to say there isn’t value there! And in no way do I want to diminish your experience! And for heaven’s sake we can talk about anything here!! It’s just that this is an area that has needed some light shed on it for a long time and it’s extremely refreshing to hear that I’m not the only one who couldn’t “get it”.

I am closing my eyes and seeing all of us on a huge mat kegeling like mad...There was a "Everybody Loves Raymond" episode about angry sex...what about a giant room full of women doing "angry kegels"?

loved every single word!!!

I've gotten the kegel line too (do you know how to do them?) and ya know what? I'm not so sure your pelvic muscles would've beat mine, I was plenty strong too, lol.

so yeah, !@#$%$ the kegels and that kegel line!

It WAS Arnold Kegel himself who trained that first army of PTs.

I think it was you!! I have read so MUCH!
The post where you described always feeling your vagina internally to check for monthly blood and how you said you noticed subtle and not so subtle changes after the birth of your first child internally really helped me think about this whole thing.
I have to say that too...I have read Christine's book twice now and some parts many times over and over and this is not something I can just figure out in a nano-second...
I feel so dumb sometimes because I am not able to grasp every concept immediately and I think "well, if I were smarter like Christine is obviously..."
but I think, Christine has been working on this for years--not that she isn't smarter!!!!...I REALLY suspect she is!--so it will take time for me to absorb this all. One day I think I am doing well and singing from the hilltops and then I end up being held hostage by a BM the next and I think okay...I know why I need to be humble in life...
But then I thought wasn't I in fact held hostage by my BM's when only had one once a week? YES!!!
I can say this totally...God Himself lead me here and Our Lady was holding my hand. I don't know what I would do without this site and all of the women here!

reka:

you know, i just wanted to bring this thread back to you and remind you again, that i know you don't feel terrific right now and we all get that awful sinking feeling of when you think you're doing a lot of the right things and yet still...ugh...something feels worse or different or just whatever. just NOT GOOD. it feels awful and scary. i had my own scare just this morning by taking a big plop on my butt on my frozen lawn and i really did panic. i immediately envisioned ALL MY PARTS FALLING RIGHT OUT. and i then thought i should just stay in bed allday. but, you know what, i actually feel fine and i do think it will be alright. and i do think YOU will be alright. i really do think things will stabilize for you. there is so much here to sift through and try. i know you're already working with the posture, but i'm thinking that maybe so early on, you're also in a serious learning curve. as i recall, i had an initial feeling of feeling great and then there was a back slide followed by another quick upswing. i know how easy it is to feel discouraged but let your body do what it needs to do in terms of learning to stand, move, sit in a different way. think of all the years you've been doing it differently! every thing's readjusting and, ultimately, moving into position in the way it's SUPPOSED to be. think of down the road when you are comfortable with the posture and how great it will feel to know your body is really being held properly. just imagine how good it will be for you. but it takes TIME, though and i found it to be quite tiring at first. just do as much as you can with it and try to rest. again, you have a very new baby. enjoy that time as well. it goes so so fast.

good luck with it all and every one is here to help you.

xxsusan

I think the point that Therese made about intelligence is important to elaborate on. My premise from the beginning has been that these concepts can (and must!) be understood by all women. But yes, it does take time for it to sink in. You can’t even imagine how many hours I spent turning pelvic floor illustrations over and over in my mind. BELIEVE ME – I’m no smarter than any of you. I have never bought into the whole intelligence thing anyway because if you really think about it, along the continuum from an earthworm to G-d, there is not that much variation amongst humans. I feel the real differences are to be found in emotional intelligence. And there is good news for women because it seems to be another truism that our natural hormones help clear a lot of emotional fog when we become menopausal. It can be a huge relief to suddenly be able to stand up for yourself instead of crumpling into a heap of tears.

Medical science (which Louise reminded me is an oxymoron) has made such a mess of the female pelvis. It simplifies things that are tremendously complex and complicates things that are utterly simple. I thought I would die laughing when I heard e-stim machines have two settings – one for stress incontinence and another for urge!

Frankly, I find it deeply satisfying that the person who figured this out was none other than a woman-mother-gardener-seamstress-dancer. Seems like poetic justice.

OK Christine, so now you are joking right??!! Who came up with two settings for different types of S.I? Where did the idea even originate from?

Talk about pseudo science. We need some "famous" public figure like Tom Cruise to stop bashing women with PPD, and come over here to start championing the "real" pseudo science of the pelvic floor. Not that I am advocating his views in ANY way, but he did attract some significant attention, and that might start getting some long overdue changes for women highlighted well into the "mainstream".

I can just see it on all the hollywood chat shows.................:)

No kidding...

Dec 4th, 2006 at 07:43 am

"I did get a device which was an e-stim device from my PT. It basically worked on batteries and shocked the muscles into contracting. It works on 2 modes, one for stress and one for urge incontinence. It pulses differently for each. For those who have really weak muscles this is the best way to get those muscles contracting. You then go in and see your progress with biofeedback during PT after using it. It doesn't feel great because it feels like you are getting a little shock each time!"

ok, I'll admit, I thought you were joking too!
but now I'm just thinking......first of all you should know that I am extremely skeptical of estim for prolapse.

but lets just say that the e-stim stimulates the muscle fibers to contract. it might be possible that different settings stimulate different fibers (slow twitch vs. fast twitch) and maybe you need one type or the other depending on what you want to accomplish (hold it in when you need to go - I'd think slow twitch, or hold it in briefly when you cough - maybe fast twitch???)

now also, know that I am by far NO EXPERT on e-stim. just thinking....

but really, it sounds like good science applied where it doesn't belong.

I think that we, as women, as non medical people, have been told for so long that we lack the intelligence to care for our own bodies that we have forgotten that we do indeed possess that intelligence.
I think its a matter of uncovering what we know deep within ourselves and learning to trust and believe in our intrinsic intelligence.
I think we all have it.

Yes, I think the concept of slow and fast-twitch muscle fibers has been used to compare apples to oranges. Urge incontinence is a neurogenic disorder resulting in bladder contractions that occur despite a woman’s desire not to void. This condition, also known as detrusor instability or bladder hyperreflexia, is rampant in post pelvic surgery populations, but can also result from a number of other irritative bladder conditions. It is distinct from the stress incontinence that occurs when bladder pressure exceeds urethral pressure.

I'll shut up after this, but also bear in mind that the new-agey-sounding "biofeedback" machine is Kegel's original and patented "perineometer"!!!

I hope you don't mind clarifying....

kegel-ing to control stress incontinence works because the muscle can increase pressure on the urethra and keep the urine from leaking out?

and with urge incontinence no amount of voluntary muscle activity would keep the urine in? is that because the bladder is contracting and exerting more force than the pelvic muscles could match?

or am I way off???

I would say Kegels do help stress incontinence. BUT - This does not mean I advocate doing hundreds a day!

i would say if you do only 10 or so decent Kegels a day - You will find them adequate. :) It is just a small amount training the muscle - Not trying to tire it out lol

...I think that’s an accurate interpretation.