Needing Encouragement

My first thought on reading your post was "Don't you dare give up the picture of you backpacking through Europe as a senior citizen!" What an absolutely wonderful thought to keep! I know the sadness and scary feelings you have, but please know, we all have gone through the same thing, so you truly are not alone. You've made a very good first step by ordering Christine's book and you will come along and improve in a few weeks. I can't pick up my grandchildren, so I got down on the floor and told them face to face, they would have to come crawl into my lap. Since you are having back and knee problems, it might be a good thought to back off on carrying her around very much.
Children understand a lot more than we give them credit for sometimes, so maybe you can explain to her that sometimes you can hold her and sometimes you can't. Other ladies on this site have mentioned changing how they play with their children and I'm sure they will be coming on to tell you their ideas.
And no, the physical part of your life is not over. You just have a setback that you will learn how to deal with as soon as you start the posture and exercises. I've recently learned of many women I've known in the past who have had prolapses for years and you'd never have known it by their activities! There is hope and you are in the right place. And keep Europe in mind!
Blessings,
Grandma Joy

Physical therapy made a huge difference for me with regards to incontinence after my first child and I didn't start it until almost a year after having the baby. With some patience and gently experimenting with what your body can build up to you may be pleasantly surprised that you may be able to resume high impact exercise such as figure skating jumps. I am now able to run and weight train. The constant visits to the bathroom may mean you need to start a voiding schedule, again something the PT gave me so I did not run to the bathroom at the slightest hint of having anything in my bladder. Good Luck!

help is certainly on the way in christine's book! i have seen great improvements in my conditions (cystocele & rectocele) since applying the "whole woman" principles over the past month or so. posture has been greatly significant for me. i have been working on my diet & starting to use the exercises. i recommend the dvd in addition to the book. i am also much more aware of my body & how it works. which brings me to your question about kids... when i 1st started working this stuff out, i had to take a break from carrying the kids (daughter 36#, son 30#) too much. once i worked the posture out & learned to draw up my pelvic organs (like a kegel in the extreme) during exertion, i can carry them again most of the time. before this, i would get my son out of his crib in the a.m. & feel everything shift down. now for any kind of lifting, i bend my knees deep & lift up from the thighs & through my pelvis. i also maintain my posture while holding them. i find that carrying them on my shoulders puts less pressure on the pelvic organs. that being said, i also used the period of adjustment to make the kids use their own bodies as much as possible. sometimes my son fussed, but he ultimately learned that he had a choice -- walk with his own legs or stroll. now i have more opportunities to hold him for play or cuddles because i'm not worn down by too many requests to be carried. good luck. i can honestly say that what i have learned from christine & from the wisdom shared on this forum turned everything around for me. i sincerely hope you have a similar experience.

--mary ann

I understand completely what you are going through.

I am new to POP and this site and I am still in that emotional limbo you describe. BUT: I am sure that Christine's work will help me and everyone with POP. I have been doing the posture for two weeks now and I already see a slight improvement in my cystocele. Especially since I started paying attention to how to lift properly.

I also have a 3-year-old (in addition to a four months old who weighs already 20 pounds and whom I have to pick up) but I have not lifted him since I was diagnosed three months ago. And it is really not a problem. I honestly do not think there is any difference in the quality of our relationship. We wrestle on the floor, he crawls on my lap when sitting, we walk hand in hand.
I WILL lift him in the future when I know how not to cause further injury to myself. But not now...

Welcome to the forum and hugs to you.
Reka xxx

My primary 'cele' is Cystocele...

This is the one thing that kegels have helped me with - I do maybe ten ten second holds a day (someties when i cant fall asleep i do a 20 or 30 sec hold) I was having to pee continually before - Now I am much much better :)

Also - I can still - Because of the posture - Do step aerobics (I am disabled so can only do it when pain allows - nothing prolapse related tho)

Once you have got into posture - You will find it much better - And the Kegels (NOT TOO MANY KEGELS) will help the peeing problem - You CAN go back packing as a senior citizen. Because you WILL beat this!

My daughter who is now 4years - I still carry very occasionally and not too far as she aint a lightweight lol (Actually she is but - maybe 36lbs) You can do it - You will work up to doing everything you ever wanted to do :)

Sue

I am NOT RECOMMENDING lifting more than is sane and reasonable, but this discussion coincides with my (less than intelligent, but necessary) experience yesterday.

My husband and I moved a large (maybe 200 lb?) redwood-slab table from our house – into and out of the back of a pickup – and into the Whole Woman Center. It was horribly heavy and not a fun chore, but I felt fine afterward. Until I rolled over in bed in the middle of the night! My lower back was paralyzed with pain and I scolded myself soundly. This morning, however, I have very little soreness, which I can only attribute to getting the right essential ingredients in my diet. My prolapse was never affected in the slightest.

So many women new to prolapse wonder “How bad can it get?” Here is what I wrote to one of our members recently and I think it should probably reside in the FAQs:

“Nothing can fall out. The very worst case scenario would be to have your vagina turn completely inside out. This would result in a bulge about the size of a softball containing most of your bladder, uterus, and rectum. It sounds horrible, but if you want to know ‘how bad can it get’, that is the answer. Absolutely under no circumstances could it get any worse. Nothing could fall any further. Unlike vaginal vault prolapse, which is an inflated balloon of about the same size, it would be reducible with a pessary and probably responsive to the postural work. If it were me I would do everything I am doing now, but perhaps with a pessary and external support. This is a very rare situation and virtually unseen in young, healthy women. I believe it would be absolutely impossible in anyone habitually holding her weight over her pubic bone.”

Christine

Your description is sooooo picturesque Christine!
Thank you...I was squinting in horror and laughing at the same time...
I really appreciate it though because it makes the resolve to stay off someone's operating table so much easier when I know it will not
progress to the point I cannot deal with it. I guess it is the biggest worry with this...how far can it go...and being confident in combatting a Dr who wants to operate in the future.

I am wondering about when we will have some real studies about these mesh surgeries etc. How many years do you think before we see the results of these on women long term? Another ten or so? 20? Do we have studies at all? I try and search for info but it seems impossible to find anything definative...ended up at a Dr Magnus Murphy's site and he advocates C-Sections to avoid POP...UGH!

UGH indeed!

I too have visited that site and even read his book, and have been saddened and angered by his thoughts on how to avoid POP.

We need education about what can realistically be expected after delivering babies vaginally, not merely given an expectation that everything will be entirely unchanged. I am sure that it is quite NORMAL to have POP after having babies to some degree. What a revelation it would be if some of these health care professionals educated us about this fact so that we could minimise risks as much as possible, and prevent worsening symptoms with diet and other lifestyle changes.

How about Dr Murphy advocating gentle, natural, slow birthing for women in natural positions for both baby and child. I absolutely CRINGE at his philosophy. It provides a vision once again that as women we are dysfunctional in some way, and that we need surgeons to "save" us! Jeepers, the whole existence of the human race has depended on women birthing babies, how has it come to be that we need surgeons to protect us from ourselves??!!

It seems to me that we need protection from the very birthing methods which have caused so many of us to develop a significant degree of POP at such a young age in the first place.

For me, reading even one womans story about mesh erosion is enough to convince me that these surgeries should NEVER EVER be performed. But then who am I to decide??

I truly wonder whether we will EVER see accurate, and comprehensive long term studies on the mesh surgeries. Call me paranoid, but while surgeons are continuing to place these, and mesh suppliers are continuing to make money, I doubt anyone will bother. That is unless women start YELLING FROM THE ROOF TOPS that we are not satisfied with what is going on and demanding better for ourselves and for our daughters!!!!!

Check out this link: http://tinyurl.com/2yttbw!

It was the only thing (apart from this site) that talks about the cavalier attitude surgeons have towards using untested methods in prolapse surgery.

I did have my first with an emergency CS. I really wanted the second to be a VBAC. The doctor told me he did not recommend it but I insisted. Had I known that his idea of VBAC is to speed up everything with a hormone drip and then not to let me push but rip the baby out with a forceps I might have reconsidered it - or would have chosen a different doctor...

And when my bladder prolapsed he said that almost everyone has it (amongst his patients, that is - no surprises there) and when it gets bad enough he will fix it with mesh... How horrible is that?

I think when a woman starts down the road of self care - a step that probably needed to be taken long long before actually taken - she will probably discover many deep long neglected issues. This sounds like what you are discovering. Amazing that you have lived with the symptoms of prolapse for 3 years with out knowing what you could do to alleviate some of your symptoms. I too have felt sad at the new picture of my future- but I have come to the realization that there are no certainties in my future. I still have dreams- and I will not sell myself short just yet. I just decided that whatever happens I can live with. Give yourself sometime to sort this out-find out what your responsibilities in your health care situation are. Soon you will find that by sharing your experience with other women that you will be able to spare someone else the trial and error you had to go through. I like to think of it as a consolation prize.
I do not lift my daughter just to hold her- she's 40lbs or so- I will lift her occasionally to show her something and then I do it with great concentration on form. I still hold her while I read a story or to snuggle. I do still lift my sons- both under 25lbs. However I encourage my 2 year old to climb up into my lap or lie down on the floor with me.
One powerful realization for me was that I have nothing but time to treat this. I am in no hurry. Every day is a new day- a day to continue my healing process.

Hi Pacific Northwest,

Just wanted to add to what others have already posted.

A friend of my sisters who had really bad stress incontinence was greatly helped by physical therapy. So much so that she went from not being able to run at all, to running again. It seems that PT is at least often very helpful for this from what I have read and heard.

Try not to get too discouraged although I know at the start it can seem overwhelming. You have many things to try and lots of time. I worried that I would not be able to run marathons again, and while I am not yet, I certainly have not stopped thinking that I will again in the future. That for me is progress in itself.

Hugs to you up in that beautiful part of the country! (That is another dream of mine, to move up to the pacific northwest one day soon and hike LOTS!)

Michelle. xx

Just to chime in with all the other wonderful support you've already gotten and say don"t give up. I, too, feel very sad and frustrated at the limits currently on my ability to do physical activity. However, I am determined one way or another to resume my martial arts practice, and to dance or do whatever I want. Somehow that is going to happen and absorbing and implementing the book and this site I just know are going to be the basic way for it to happen.

The important thing is to not give up hope, even when things seem to be getting worse instead of better. Even then, when it is hard, if we can see in our minds and feel our healing, that makes it exponentially easier to happen. That doesn't make me a master at doing it - but I believe that to be true.

So hang in there - see and feel yourself figure skating, close your eyes and visualize the mountains, and then do the day by day detail. All the best.

Hi Reka,

Thanks for posting that enlightening article. It seems to prove all that Christine has been saying, that these surgeries are pretty much experimental on every level. Very scarey!

I was amazed by the number given of 11% of American women "requiring" surgery for incontinence and POP. That seems pretty high doesn't it?

Michelle.