back soreness

I'm not really sure why your low back has begun to ache, but here are my thoughts (for what they are worth,lol)

maybe you aren't resting enough
maybe its just muscles kicking in for the first time in years...not 100% sure, I could look them up, but I think when you stand you can rely on the big leg muscles to help but when you're sitting its all on the back. I find sitting so much easier if I sit at the edge of the seat and tip the chair forward a bit (my teachers used to yell at me for that one!). then I'm balanced over my spine instead of using muscle to keep me up. 'old posture' had me hanging on my ligaments, chances are you too. so maybe its just muscle fatigue???

how long has it been since you've increased postural work in sitting and since you've noticed this low back pain?

Hey Susan,

I have funnily enough been getting an aching back the past few days as well! I think I am over doing the lumbar curve a bit. I have a tendency to do this if I am more active. I think it is a subconscious thing, and has to do with some lasting anxiety that if I am too active things will worsen.

I too am exhausted. Too much sleep disturbance, and not early enough in bed. This too shall pass! Hang in there! :)

Hugs,

Michelle.

(((((susan)))))

I used to be prone to back pain, the kind that would have me in tears unable to get up off the floor. usually when I link it to my emotional state it eases up.

I think you may be onto something. I also hit a spot a while back where it dawned upon me that this is FOREVER. not just until I feel better, or lose 10 lbs or until the next holiday. Its for the rest of my LIFE. and I cried. for longer than I'd like to admit.

but you are strong, you've made it thus far, and you will get over this hump too. and then I bet you'll be feeling better.

one day at a time, sweetie, that's all you can do.

Change positions at least every 20 min or so- and if your ball is small enough you can straddle fully and then use your quads and hams to support your body (if you have ever been on a horse while trotting it is that kind of support)it is a good exercise too. Also if you can - take a half rest while on the computer- by getting on your hands and knees- and you could do a minute of flat floor resting in between your position changes- and stretch-
I think you are right that you are just getting stronger- but not getting enough rest in between.
I think you will feel better - you remember that you could ICE the area or alternately heat-a warm bath with salt..........

Hi Susan,

Just an idea: two days ago I went to see an osteopath. Funnily, I booked the appointment before finding this site because I had a bad backache. I have been having that for at least five years and after treatments it is better for a while.

However, after implementing the posture the backache went completely away (YES!!!). I thought that it is still worth going and ask him about the posture. He told me that it was the posture I should have been in for all my life (well, I know that now). When looking at my version of the implementation he noted my scorpion-tail, that is my tailbone too high up. Then he did some manipulations and all that pressure went away and I immediately felt better.

I hope that you are feeling better tonight. I know about the nights: my baby sleeps and I am up with my head full of very unhelpful thoughts about what would have happened if I had made different choices...

Good luck with the back:
Reka xxx

I was just wondering if your back pain could be from your recent fall or from sitting in lectures on hard chairs for long periods of time.

I hope you feel better soon!

Hugs
- Lilly Anne

Hey Susan:

I am so glad that you are feeling a little better! Glad PT has helped. I know exactly what you mean about "the city" relaxing you. I went to the gym yesterday and put on my IPOD as soon as I heard my loud music I felt so much more relaxed.

Anyway, I wanted to talk about pizza. A few weeks ago I wanted pizza so badly. I just couldn't stand it anymore. Then I had a brainstorm. I went to Wild Oats and bought preparred pizza dough. I used rice cheese, tons of spinich, cooked chicken and a few sun dried tomatoes. I can honestly say, it was quite tasty, it was fairly healthy and for the most part I stayed within my diet/ prolapse diet rules. I only had a few pieces and I also had a salad with it. No, I will never be able to go out to the local pizza joint but I realized, yes, I can still have pizza!

BTW: freaking out a little. I thought I was constipated this morning. I pushed a little (for a moment) Obviously, I wasn't thinking. Now I feel prolapsy. I ended up not being constipated afterall. I think it may look different.

- Lilly Anne

Hi,
Have you tried putting a small pillow behind your back when you are sitting down? I find that it helps to ease my back pain. I will also put it between my knees if I am going to sleep on my side and under my knees if I am sleeping on my back.
Just a thought.
Flora

I had no back problems before being diagnosed with stage 4 uterine prolapse. I was active with yoga and walking/hiking (sometimes tennis). The first week after the dx, before I learned about the proper posture, I kept feeling a "pulling" of the muscles in the front of my stomach. I don't know if it was "in my head" because I was always thinking about my uterus falling out.

Now I've been practicing the posture ALL day - sitting with pillows keeping me straight, and walking the same way. Whenever I feel uncomfortable from chaffing of my uterus, I do a downward dog, and then firebreathing. I'm trying to relax in a new position by reading while lying on my stomach.
My lower back and hips are KILLING ME. I'm going to try a massage to help alleviate the pain.

I think the pain is from rapidly changing my usual posture which I've been holding most of my adult life - the one that caused this prolapse. I'm hoping that with continuing the posture that the pain will go away as my body gets used to the new ways. I am also praying that it will work to keep my uterus inside my body. It's not very pleasant right now....

The one good thing that I can hope will come out of this is that I will prevent my 27 year old daughter from going through this in her life. She too, is practicing the posture - and despite being a perfect weight, and very fit, HER BACK is killing her too - again, I think the change in the muscles we use has this effect.

again, thanks to everyone for the support and encouragement - it helps me to continue on this path.

I have had a lot of hip pain also. Interesting that you posted about that!! It is my lower right side on the back! I had my husband massage it the other night and it went away for a couple of days and then back again today. Guess I will need some more attention...aw shucks! Confirming to hear I am not the only one! Thanks for posting!

Just wanted to respond to questions about hip and back soreness. The section in the dvd where I’m walking outside circling my arms I actually do everyday out of necessity. Now that I’m in the city, I walk to a local park moving my arms in large circles like a bird while keeping my neck/head pulled long, shoulders down and upper back broad; run up a steep, grassy hill a couple of times; bend all the way forward and hang for a few moments – letting my lower back stretch to its fullest – and run back home. It’s very important to warm up BEFORE stretching the lower back in this way. This is not a ton of exercise, but I must do it on a regular basis to keep from crippling up with pain. The worst situations for me are driving long distances or spending a lot of time in my husband’s leather couch, followed by a day of heavy housecleaning. The only way I’ve found to address the resulting lower back pain is to push myself out the door the next morning and mindfully move through my little outdoor program. When I come back I do not sit in the leather sofa!

We are essentially a web of fascia within which our skeleton floats. When this total-body web is pulled into its proper shape by the use of our head and arms, it releases stress on muscles and nerves throughout the lower torso. It also pulls up our prolapses. This is self-evident and something I encourage all of you to incorporate into your daily routines.

Hip pain can be addressed by sleeping on the side opposite the pain and placing a pillow between your thighs so that your affected hip is supported in a neutral position. Spending nighttime hours with the hip in strong internal rotation is stressful on the joint. We have four sets of load-bearing joints (ankles, knees, hips, shoulders) that are meant to be carried one directly on top of the other, which is what the posture aligns. If we implement all aspects of the posture, including distributing weight evenly between three points on the soles of the feet (below big toe, below little toe, and in the center of the heel) many mysterious aches and pains resolve. No amount of chiropractic can do this for us.

That is the key probably.
I do notice when I remember to do those large arm swings I feel great after wards. Refreshed and I always think it is wierd--how could such a simple thing feels so good? I forget to do it. I need to do it daily...funny thing about the hip thing. I sleep on my right side very often and that is the hip that hurts. My husband likes to sleep behind me and so that is why I do it!!

Christine I notice that I can 'hear' my back and shoulder and neck muscles when I do the movements that stretch those areas. Am I just strange? Do you know why I could hear the movement?

If your husband isn't too set in his ways, switch sides so you can support the affected hip. I hear my neck muscles too...just close to the ear drums I guess. :-)

He will NOT switch sides...HA! :))
I slept last night on that side and it is sore again so I think that is a big reason!! Also, I slept on that side my entire pregnancy as it was the only side that felt at all comfortable...so I have been doing it for years!
It hurts quite a bit so I think I will be switching regardless to my darling husband!!
One intersting thing is that I used to be quite 'wild' in bed...not the fun kind but I thrashed around quite a bit and apparently did more excersise while sleeping sometimes than awake...my husband reports that since I have lost about 40 lbs now and have been eating better I am sleeping quitely and not even snoring. The changes I have made through all the help here have helped me a lot!!

If your husband won't change sides with you,ask him to roll over so you can cuddle up to him. Turn about is fair play!!!
I had this same problem and bought a memory foam mattress pad. It helps quite a bit. Also found massaging it helped.

I really like a firm mattress and our bed is great but I am wondering if the firm mattress is so good for our bodies now. My mom has a mucsle disease and she HAS to have a very soft bed--she used to sleep on the floor when we were kids every so often because she loved the firmness!! So she has gone the total opposite.
I have switched sides now and feel the difference--I think my husband will live!! :))
The one good thing about the weight loss and better eating is not being so crazy in bed so I won't end up on the side that hurts--it seems I am staying in the same place I start out with...
Massage is great. For some reason when I have a bad back, neck shoulders--hip! when my husband massages it it gets instantly better. He massaged me out of a sciatica attack of about 3 days.
But staying on the hurt side won't help so I am thankful for the advice and understanding of how that hip works.

Hi Christine

I have just been reading your post here, and also your post about Wholewoman after surgery, and doing some research on all those muscles around the pelvis that are related to using our legs.

I have also had some Feldenkrais sessions from a teacher who is also a physiotherapist. She is very interested in your work. She has given me some really subtle exercises to do which are teaching all those muscles to control the movement of my pelvis, rather than my multifidus, glutes and stomach muscles which seem to be doing more work than they should be doing to stabilise my raggy lumbar discs, which is probably why I get back pain and knots in my glutes and need to do so much stretching to relieve pain. Anyway, after doing the exercises my back pain eases right off, and in just two weeks I am feeling so much better.

This leads me to understand more about how you have had so much success with Wholewoman posture. I think it is largely to do with strengthening all those deep pelvic stability muscles through dance. Am I stating the bleeding obvious here? Or am I just so thick that I have only just had this Aha! moment after all this time??

I think what the strong pelvic stability muscles do is allow *you* to maintain Wholewoman posture without using the multifidus muscles to lift the tailbone. When they are strong the whole pelvis is locked into position in standing/walking posture with 'thicker rubber bands', ie better internal muscles. I may have only half the story, but there you go.

For the sake of other Members, I am not talking about pelvic floor muscles here, but the psoas, iliacus, piriformis, obturators, gemelli, quadratus, gluteus group plus the front and side thigh muscles and hamstring group, pectineus and adductors.

Without underpinning Wholewoman posture with whole body exercise, I think women who have had surgery would have a really difficult journey to being able to live with prolapse, but they have a difficult journey anyway, and it might just stop them from sliding down the slippery, surgical slope. You have benefitted from it. Why shouldn't others, *if* they are prepared to put in the time and effort? "Break your bones".

And now I need to find your CD and get dancing.

Cheers

Louise

Hi All

I just had one of those moments. It was about how you tilt your pelvis forward to get your pubic bone supporting the organs without causing lower back pain.

When I first started the posture was back in the days of "lift the tail bone". The only way my body would do this was to accentuate my lumbar curve by lifting the tailbone with my back muscles. I can now see how I ended up with a sore back.

So I started lifting my ribcage and had to unlearn tightening my back muscles. This is getting easier (helped by Feldenkrais) and I now lift my ribcage more to keep the lumbar curve, instead of lifting my tailbone, but it still didn't tip my cystocele over the pubic bone.

The third factor I have now realised is the belly. I am a serial tummy tucker from way back and my tummy muscles find it hard to relax, particularly my lower belly. I realised a while back that relaxing the lower belly makes more room for the pelvic contents. I can test this by alternately relaxing and contracting my lower belly muscles with a finger in my vagina. If I twist my upper body around a bit and insert an index finger slightly into my vagina from the back I can keep the lumbar curve in place while I test). With my abdominals relaxed the cystocele disappears. With my tummy tucked in I can feel the cystocele sliding back over the introitus. I guess this is the jello sloshing backwards and forwards.

But the other effect is that with the lower abdomen relaxed there is more weight out front which will automatically tip the balance of the pelvis forwards. Try putting a full big Coke bottle in the bottom of a cheap laundry bucket on the floor, positioning it up against the pouring lip of the bucket. Now lift the bucket off the floor and observe what happens to the bucket. The bucket automatically tips forwards when it has more weight out front. Voila!

It has taken me almost three months of carrying buckets full of bottles of milk to my artificially fed lambs every day for the penny to drop!

Now all I have to do is re-educate my abdominal muscles so they are relaxed by default, and I should have it licked. Of course, this is where clothing design comes in, to really allow your belly to move out as far as it needs to without being compressed by clothing.

It has taken me almost three months of carrying buckets full of bottles of milk to my artificially fed lambs every day for the penny to drop.

Any thoughts from others on this??

Cheers

Louise
Cheers

Louise

Louise,

Love your posts!

I too have been fooling around with the posture. Had trouble with the back at first, but realized I was over doing it. I also had some fierce garter pains down my thigh fronts. It drove me crazy. Almost thought it was uterine. I had garter pains after my second, third, fourth, children. I had trouble just standing for any length of time. It was a real concern.

I have a short vagina, so I thought at first, "This is never going to work!" But relaxing in Mountain Pose, and taking inventory, I realized that I needed just a little vaginal lift to put everything into place.

Because I exercise this part of my body all the time, I can lift individual internal parts for one effect or another, and when I stand still - rare - I can lift my breast bone, drop my shoulders, and with a little lift in the vaginal area, presto-bingo!

Don't know about others, but I hate to do kagels, and only do them because it helps continue my road to strengthening my body. When I do my kagel routine, it's usually in the car. I drive a big old Jeep, and I make sure the seat is not back. I put something lively in the CD and count to ten out loud doing forward, center and back Kagels alternately. It's the only time I do them.

Sitting in posture is much easier for me than standing. This routine helps me strengthen my back and core muscles which in turn allows me to remain in the standing posture a lot longer. I figure the stronger I am, the more resilient to further decay. Not a nice word, but there are days!

Louise, enjoy your spring season. I'm trying to enjoy fall up here, but it just WON'T cool off! Give a lamb a hug for me.

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

I love the metaphor, Louise, and am so grateful you’ve given it to us. Great bit of research too ;-) Yes, I tend to think of the bladder, uterus, and sigmoid colon being ”poured” back into the hollow of the lower belly when we tip the pelvis in that direction. And you’re right, the belly must be relaxed to receive its contents. Now imagine with every breath you take the respiratory diaphragm (the ‘ceiling’ of the abdomen) coming all the way down to the last set of ribs and pushing all the abdominal and pelvic contents down and forward. If the organs are not being tipped into their hollow, they are subject to instead being pushed back toward the pelvic outlet.