I am considering surgery...

Everyone must make their own best choice. I’m just wondering how all the practitioners you’ve been to over the years have diagnosed your “marbles”? You asked the question like you’d never heard of prolapse??? And asking me to evaluate photos of your prolapse…I’m feeling kinda set up here….

All I know is that I go to a *certain website* And it was none of the words they wrote that initially caught my eye - It was the signatures they had - Lists of one surgery after another - About one per year. Yet at the same time as these signatures increasing - They were saying how wonderful their lives were - Kind of a double whammy to the eye.

I would never tell you what to do with your life - It is your life and your choice alone - The only thing I would say is - At this moment you are able to try other things like the essary (works great for my mother) after the surgery these other options will not be as easy to use.

I woule never try to even tell you what you should do - Your heart will tell you this :)

I wish you the greatest of wellbeing in whatever chice you may make

Sue

Hi Youngmommyoftwo:

This whole living with Prolapse thing is really frustrating. I feel for you and for me for that matter. I hate it and it sucks. I wrote in both yesterday and today when I was at my breaking point. There are many wonderful ladies on this forum talked me down off the ledge. They calmed me down and I am forever greatful for their support.

I can totally understand your frustration to some extent. My prolapse is very minor. Even if I wanted surgery to fix it I don't think that there is a dr. in his right mind that would. I too so want a magic pill or quick surgery fix to make the discomfort go away.

Surgery is such a personal choice. There are many days where I say, hmm, I should go for a 4th opinion and be done with it. Then I re-evaluate and realize that for the most part, I am pretty symptom free and for that I am grateful.

Do you have good days and bad days?

As far as those that have had successful surgery. I am sure that there are some lucky ladies out their that have. I know of someone that had surgery for her prolapse (it was total prolapse to the worst extent). Anyway, she had surgery and she is fine. She is happy and thriving. Everyday she fears though that the bottom could drop out. In her particular case, she felt she had nothing to lose. When I put myself in her shoes I realize that I would have too much to lose at this point. What I am getting at, is that it is such a personal choice. If you decide to have surgery, it is done. There is no do-over. You may be better, or you may be worse.

I suggest you seek lots of opinions. I then suggest that you make a decision and before acting on it, sit on it for a while. Reflect on it just to be sure that you have made the right decision.

I am not for or against surgery. It's personal. Most of the women on this site are coping with living well with prolapse. Regardless of your decision, I wish you the very best of luck. Just take your time and really think it through.

- Lilly Anne

As a young mother, one thing that you also really need to question is that I believe, but am not entirely certain that you are not supposed to lift anything heavy (i.e. a small child) after having the surgery. I am not sure if there is a time limit or if it is forever.

I really wish you all the best and I DO understand your frustration. Its a tough decision either way, staying as is or having surgery.

Just take your time, ask lots of questions and again, just when you have decided - STOP and digest it for a bit.

- Lilly Anne

What i meant was i read another pro the surgery site - There they say everything surgeryfied is fantastic - Yet their signatures say quite the opposite - as their signatures are nothing but a list of repeat surgeries they have had - Which is what caused me to search for a non surgical site - Then i fell across this one - This site has helped me immensely :)Christnie has been a wonderful friend to me - Cos I was a MESS when I got here...

I also think that after surgery your muscles are moved (or suspended in a different way) so they will never act in the usual fashion again. I am sure I read after surgery it's nothing over 12lbs for life - That sounds well bad (Having just had surgery on my stomach I amnot allowed to lift at the moment and its baddddddddd - I had Hernia surgery not prolapse surgery lol Cos a pre existing hernia came back) You know lifting your washing basket to hang the clothes would take you over the lift limit - That is really annoying to me at the moment.

I think the thing is - Life throws crap at you left right and centre all your life - You hafta be the only one who will decide what you will do about it.

When i got here I had a level 2 prolapse and it was 'peeking' out making walking a pain and making me feel sooooooooo bad. Now - I feel normal 98% of the time - This month I even had my period without any hassles or heavy feelings :) That was cool.

Now - The last time I saw my Gynae I was told my prolapse is minimal 'level 1' if that And I have all 3 prolapses all trying to 'get outta the door'

Sue

Thank you for your lifting information. I have been seen by 3 doctors and have not been given any limitations as far as how much I can lift. I was just told no crunches or anything that mimicks that kind of flexion. I have read on this site that we can lift but that we should lift carefully. I just wanted to point that out.

I really do wish you the very best of luck. Like I said earlier, I am not for or against surgery being that it is a very personal choice.

- Lilly Anne

Because of my previous hernia - I had to get my daughter to climb up to me - Having just had it again - She climbs up to me now to cuddle me - I guess cos me being disabled (I have Multiple Sclerosis too) lol

She has been brought up knowing I have limitations and that life for us leads us in different ways.

She is so aware of things I am unable to do - My mother being disabled with MS also is just normality to her.

Unfortunately this road is a one way street - I wish you only the best of luck and would never tell you do this or that. As said below it is a very personal choice.

But - I am here to listen if you need me :-)

When she was crawling I waggled a nappy and called her and she came to me. Now she is 4yrs she is a total help for me (She starts school in Sept and I will miss her terribly)

So - Even if you are unable to lift - Finding ways around things are just challenges you go through - I also lost use of my left hand for well over a year - Just had Botox last week to regain it (working well) Now I hafta teach my left hand how to be a hand again

That is what life is! A constant challenge - Battle of wills - And I think having a bull mind set is what keeps me going :)

Just read this it in your post...

The prolapse consumes my life. I do exercises daily to try to maintain and/or improve it.

If you over-do the exercise (Like too many Kegels) It WILL make everything ten times worse - I did 300+ Kegels a day and paid dearly for it - Now I do maybe 10-15 Kegels a day and it is fabbo - Ad got soooooooooo much better in just a few days of not so many worthless kegels

OK guys,

I am going to risk being drummed off the forum here and express a very unpopular view, though I have expressed it to others here privately.

Life is all about quality. If I ever got to the point where I felt like I had tried everything to improve a severe prolapse, and yet the daily discomfort, pain, restrictions, and otherwise miserable symptoms continued, then I would get surgery. There, I said it!

I would NEVER enter into this lightly, and I would try to go to the best I could afford, but I would probably do it. I am in no way encouraging you either way youngmommyoftwo, it HAS to be your choice but that is the choice I would make. I know the risks versus the benefits, and I think it has to be a personal thing when we weigh these up ultimately for ourselves.

I am the strongest advocate for all non surgical methods of management but still, for some women surgery is not simply a quick fix, it is an issue of quality of life and comfort.

I love your valid and oh so sad points longhair about others being so worse off than us in countries where they have no choice about treatment and care. How humble that makes me feel and how grateful that we have so very many choices.

So, I am sure this will raise some debate, I am not in any way trying to influence anyone else with these views. I feel for you very much youngmommyoftwo. I had read your posts from two years ago when I started out on this journey, and have wondered how you are. I wish you all the very best with your very difficult decision and send love to you! xx

I do not think you would be drummed off for having your own thoughts!

Everyone probably has thoughts of this in the back of their minds - Ya just try to think of other things :)

Don't worry I think everyone here is a pretty cool person and will understand the thoughts and fears of every other woman

I ditto your second paragraph. But, I am not there yet so I am trying my best to cope and come to terms with this. Someday, if my symptoms become too much too deal with and if it comes to a point that staying as I am or a failed surgery would have the same outcome then I would choose to try it. I would only have it if I felt I had nothing to loose. Make sense?

- Lilly Anne

Yes, I totally agree with the opinion that it is about choices, well-considered of course, but even Christine has said that in some cases a woman may have to make the choice to have surgery. On the other hand, so many women here have found improvements via non surgery that it is important everyone take the time to think about and wait and see if there is improvement. I also totally agree with someone who said they get by with sheer bull-mindedness and yes, life has certainly thrown plenty of crap at me too. I have episodic depression and mental illness and during those times I have to say I sometimes wish I'd never been born. Having said that though, in the periods I am well, I feel terrific and very happy. So yeah, I know this forum is about our prolapses, but we are whole people and sharing our other issues are part of what makes the site so interesting and caring.
Just my tuppence worth...
Wendy

Hey babe - I hear you saying you want surgery-------That's cool. But why are you posting here again all of the sudden? It kinda makes me think you want some challenges from us (the nonsurgical approach gals) so you can be sure very very sure that this is what you want.

Is that right? It is what I would do- if I was considering all options. So if you want a challenge I am up for giving you one.

For me this prolapse thing is really a mental struggle more than a physical one. If my midwife would not have told me I had a prolapse I honestly would have just thought I was having pressure and soreness from my tear during child birth-
now that I know what it is and that there is a surgical option it changes the way I think about it. Now I feel like it is a *problem* that needs fixing.
Before I just listened to my body and rested more after a long day on my feet. Now I obsess about how my prolapse is on good days and not so good days.
The way I see it right now I have no restrictions- sure I could make it worse and worse and worse if I tried and in the end when it is very bad (softball sized mass outside the body) I could get it fixed.

Mama right now do you have chronic pain? you could after the surgery-
Is sex enjoyable? no guarantee after surgery.
Can you lift now if you want to lift with out fear of ruining months and months of recovery?

I hear you saying you have spent 3 years living with this. Are you just to the point that you can't live with it anymore physically? Or is it more the emotionally draining part of living with it.

I have wondered about women who post on forums too. Like why don't the people who were posting here 3 years ago still post here? Are they joyfully living with prolapse and see no reason to check in here- do they lurk here occasionally and then not write? Did they go on and have surgery and are doing well but don't want to say so here or not well and don't want to say so here......

It also sounds like you have some pretty close to home examples of the surgery working wonders for the women in your life.

I am proud to hear that you have made it 3 years - I hope in three years I will have some great success to share with other women needing encouragement- (by the way..Do you feel better now than you did 3 years ago?) but I don't know what the future holds.....I may be in your shoes 3 years from now. Please no matter what you decide keep us updated.

In all my 27 years if there is one thing I would say I have learned it is that working for something makes the accomplishment just that much sweeter.

You have been doing a lot of work for the past three years! I don't know how severe your symptoms are. You say it consumes you. How does it limit you in your daily life?

I was so scared when I discovered my prolapse a year ago, after baby #3. For the first time with respect to my body, I felt completely out of control. I still think about my prolapse a lot, but it doesn't limit me for the most part in terms of my quality of life. I also still think about having another baby!

Personally, I will do everything in my power to avoid surgery for this issue for the rest of my life. Your post makes me ask, "Why?"

Primarily, the thought of someone cutting into my body makes my skin crawl. Especially my most private and treasured space. And, I don't want the limits on lifting. I carry my 2 year old, my 50 lb. 5 year old, and give my 8 year old piggyback rides!

Here's the thing. Christine has devoted endless hours and her whole life energy to researching this issue. If you look back on the history of these surgeries, and what the profession itself admits, you will see that the success rates are marginal, at best, and beset by the necessity for repeat surgeries, that involve recovery periods and perhaps more and more limitations on quality of life. I would rather manage my prolapse and learn to live well with it than take the risk, which, if you look at Christine's research, is significant. I trust the work that she has done, which, if you get the new edition of her book, is backed up not only by her own trustworthiness, but the opinions of many prominent medical healers, most notably from my standpoint, Ina May Gaskins, who happens to be the most revered midwife of our time.

The other issue is that the problems may not turn up right away, but could happen five, ten, fifteen or twenty years down the line. Once the anatomy has been surgically altered, as Christine herself can testify, it cannot be redone. There is really no going back.

There may be more you can try. Have you done Christine's new workout? I do it every other day and everything lifts up. It is about restructuring the muscularskelatal system. It takes time. It just came out, so it may be something new to try.

I don't want to talk you out of surgery if that is where you want to go -- but I know I've seen posts from women who have expressed the prior to surgery, they had this hope that the prolapse would be gone, only to be incredibly dejected and let down to find that what they end up with is another prolapse, and the need for a repeat surgery.

What you have is all of you anatomy in more or less it's orginial design, unaltered by the surgical process. There may be work you can do with it. Take your time in making your decision. It's tempting to have a quick fix, but contemplating it a bit longer, taking your time to get all the information and facts won't hurt.

Wishing you peace and blessing on your journey,

Marie

Yikes...I deleted my post and in doing so all the ones under it - that's how the program works. Sorry Granolamom for deleting your sweet and thoughtful post!

And my deepest apologies to everyone else, particularly youngmommyoftwo. I think I need a break. This is very exhausting work and I'm doing the best I can with it, but sometimes it feels like I'm carrying the world on my shoulders.

I'm going to leave the forum to the moderators and see if I can move some other projects ahead a bit.

Lots of love,

Christine

Don't leave. You asked for opinions and you got them :)

If you feel that surgery is the option for you - Then it is your body and your choice - But it would be nice for you to keep us updated on how it goes - I think everyone here would be wondering if you just left and we never knew how you were :)

Maybe when you go see your Dr about the surgery you could ask him how often he has to repeat the surgery to women - And how soon after surgery no1

When I had the first hernia surgery (Left with a 5 inch scar half a belly button and 3 months of continual pain) I never even contemplated it would return exactly 3yrs later. Now I have 5 hole scars as this time I had keyhole surgery and the pain tho bad is alot lesser - I still feel a lump in my stomach so am now stressing over 'did it work and will I hafta go thru all that again'

But - Life goes on and I only had the surgery on 16th or March so who knows - My follow up with Dr is not till 23rd of this month lol

If you go with the surgery - Please Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee tell us how it goes - How it makes you feel etc - I for one would be very interested Maybe you could start a blog on Xanga or something, it's anonymous and I am sure many many women would be interested.

Anyways I wish you the best :)
Sue

Hi youngmummyoftwo. I totally get where you're coming from and myself am totally open minded about the surgery side of things. I have only recently experienced a prolapse (uterus i think) and will try everything i can to correct it without havin got resort to surgery. But i have to say if I cannot achieve a significant improvement in my symptoms I will seriously consider surgery. I am aware that there are risks as there are with all types of surgery, but i will have to assess whether it is a risk I am willing to take and whether the possible benefits will make it worth it. This is obviously the situation that you're at at the mo and I know it's a tough decision to make, if it does all go wrong both you and you family will feel the consequences. On the other hand if you feel you are only living a half life due to your symptoms and you are miserable the majority of the time maybe that alone makes the possible benefit outway the risks. You know it will be even harder to make the decision in some ways cos you've been posting on this site and are more aware of the possible complications. Sometimes you just gotta hold your nose and jump in, maybe it's time for that leap of faith!
Whatever you decide i truly hope it all works out for you and you regain you quality of life. If you do have the surgery PLEEEEase post here and let us all know how it went! Good luck and best wishes XX

So sorry to read your last comment. Firstly i hope you're ok, I sense things are a bit tough for you at the mo. Just wanted to say please don't under estimate how important your input is on this site. After all it wouldn't exist if it wasn't for you. I know you must feel massive pressure carrying the burden of so many women and hope you'll be back shortly. I personally would like to hear more from you. Anyway take care and i hope things feel better for you shortly.
Many thanks,
Longhair X

I am sorry to hear that you are thinking of leaving the site. I for one am really sorry to hear that. I am wondering if what got you upset is that someone brought an idea to this site that was polar opposite of your beliefs and what you have been teaching us. I am sure (based on nothing) that every women on this site has contiplated surgery every now and again when they get frustrated, especially on those bad days.

I for one come to this site for a multitude of reasons. #1, my friends and family are tired of hearing my vagina woes. They have moved on and they wish that I would too. This is the only place that I can come to where I am not judged and no one thinks I am crazy. #2, the support, that is huge for me. #3, Exercise advice. #4, It feels good to give back just as so many have given to me. Just like in life outside of this forum, I believe in some of what I have read and some I don't.

This is your life, your work, and you are teaching all of us so much. Like so many have said to me previously, take a deep breath. I hope you don't leave.

Take care!
- Lilly Anne

Hi,

Just to let you know about my experience with surgery. I had a UP, rectocele and cystocele that I considered badly affected my life and had a bladder neck elevation, paravaginal repair and rectocele repair in 2001. I spent a month in hospital after surgery with voiding issues. Once I was back on my feet I suffered massive uterine prolapse - why? because what was supporting the uterus wasn't there anymore and now my cervix hung out all the time and for me, that is way more uncomfortable than having a cystocele and rectocele. I also suffer bladder urgency which is really annoying and I know is directly as a result of the burch.

If I could change my decision, I would in a heartbeat. I have come to terms with my decision - I cant change it but I can learn to manage how I am now.

I dont like posting about my surgery here because I want to be just like everyone else - living and managing well with my prolapses.

I guess as the other posts have said it is absolutely your choice. But I never really thought I could actually be worse off after surgery.

Good luck with your decision.

H

I am so sorry your surgery put you in a worse place then where you were before :(

I want to applaud you and thank you so much for telling us what happened to you cos without people like you we would not have any 'other side' stories to help people make these very hard decisions.

How are you doing now?

I am so so very sorry that surgery did not work out for you.

thank you for sharing your story. that takes courage.

I hope, somehow, things improve for you

it was my impression that Christine's just taking a short break, to recharge and rejuevenate and work on some other aspects of the WW center.

don't worry, she hasn't abandoned us!

and we all know she couldn't stay away long even if she tried : )

youngmommy - I had a nice long post to you, which inadvertantly got deleted. I don't really have the time or presence of mind to recreate it, but the gist of it was the same as what everyone else is saying.

I am not for or against surgery. and this site IS open to all discussions regarding prolapse, including surgical aspects.

like everyone else has said, its a very personal choice, has to do with how much risk you are willing to tolerate and how badly your current symptoms affect your life.

my only real concern about women who choose surgery, is that they be well informed before making that choice. I'm not saying that its a WRONG choice, only that very often doctors misrepresent (either intentionally or not, but face it, it happens) the potential adverse affects of surgery and the long term success rate.

so if you're at the point where you feel you've done all you can and you still aren't able to live well with your prolapse, then by all means consider surgery. but do get multiple opinions, and research well the 'worst case scenario'. I have nothing to gain by women refusing surgery, I just no longer trust the medical field to have our best interests at heart. the fact that this surgery is allowed doesn't mean its necessarily a good idea (ok, I'm a bit cynical). for example, when I was born my mother was put to 'twilight sleep', filleted like a fish so I could be yanked out with forceps. the OB really believed that was good medical practice. and he was not alone.
forceps delivery has its place, yes, but not like that.
I think these repairs are similar. In some cases, they have their place. but just because so many surgeons are performing these types of surgeries doesn't mean its right for all (and I will go out on a limb and say most) women with prolapse.

either way, we will support your decision, its not an easy one to make.
I hope whatever path you take will bring you better quality of life.
and please do keep us updated.

Very well said :)

Whatever happens and whatever is chosen by whomever - We would never judge your decision because only you know what you live through one day to the next

xxx

interesting thing, while you were recovering from your repeat hernia repair I read that the Kugel patch (I think that's what they called it) that was used in some hernia repairs is now in question. apparantly the company that made it misrepresented its failure rate to physicians.

don't know if that was your case or not, but who knows what kinda stuff they're using to suspend bladders and uteruses (uterii?) and how long those materials last.

Well I do not know what brand he used. I just know that it was NOT painless - No no no was very painful for at least the first week and still a bit of pain now a couple of weeks on.

The surgeon is one who teaches here, and he was told of by name to me by someone whose son was operated on by him and he did amazing things for him.

I don't know but at this time I still have a lump. But that could be swelling - From the look at the photo I have it does not look round or oval like on the kugal patch website. Nope he left me a letter with a sticker on it - From the patch - It is not Kugal (kinda relieved now lol but nothing is 100%
) If it wasn't for the fact that last time the hernia got stuck and I had an emergency op (just normal stitching muscle to muscle fix that time) I would have waited - But I also know if you wait the defect gets bigger and bigger and it was large enough as it is!

What he told me was something like...

One side of themesh allows scar tissue to build itself and the other side does not allow the internal organs to adhere to it.

If the hernia comes back - I was told by 2 doctors that it would 99% of the time be outside of the mesh - Thats why they overlap a bit

To be honest this kind of thing scares me to death. the kind of operation where you have no choice always scares the bejeezus outta me.

Cos not only have I had this in this past month - I have also had Botox injexted into myarm toopen my non opening left hand (Which is working amazingly well) It worried me cos of what Botox is!

This is the reason i always try to avoid doctors - lol - Cos you never kow what they are doing - Unless you are a doctor yourself. I do know y Dr is one of the best in this part of the country - But is he the best cos of results or cos he is nice? lol - I know my friends son is being built a new bowel by this man as he had to cosof illness remove the entire bowel via keyhole (which is amazing in itself)

I just pray and hope that this is the last hernia operation I have to go through as it is NOT fun.

You left me such a sweet message when i first posted on this site, so supportive and positive. It's dawned on me today from reading your posts both new and past just how incredible you are! you have so many challenges in your life and so much to cope with, yet still you find the time, not to mention the energy to offer so much love and kindness to others on this site.
So thankyou once again, you are an inspiration and i hope you are feeling more comfortable soon. Your little girl sounds amazing too i'm sure she makes it all worthwhile and is a credit to you.
Take care, love
Longhair xx

I found the letter he gave me and searched the mesh i had inserted on 16th March (My partners birthday lol) Also on this site are pictures of what they insert into you for prolapse surgery

Look

Weirddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd looking things.

Makes you feel like you would turn into a wrapped turkey

lol

Longhair - I am just a complete worrywart in my life. Nik (partner) tells me I am the worrywartof all time - lol

I live in fear of practically everything! Each thing that is sent my way I am petrified of! And after each thing is gotten used to I move on to something else to be petrified of...

I am at this time - Petrified the surgery will fail - And I will hafta go through it again and all that agony and the fact it cost £3079 for the surgery....

I am petrified the Botox will have to be done every 3-4 months for the rest of my life (I am not good with pain lolol)

I am probably the most petrified person you will ever meet!

lol

I have 2 sons and one daughter - And they are the lights of my life :)

I guess we all have our hassles to get through - I have just had tons of them in 2007

lol :)

Sue

trusting drs with our lives is a terrifying prospect. sometimes you have to trust in a higher power or plan or whatever you believe in, if you do, especially as in your hernia situation you have no real choice.

I've worked with kids who used to get biannual botox shots for spastic muscles and they pretty much all had positive outcomes. those shots have a reputation for being awfully painful though!

I continue to keep you in my thoughts for continued strength and good health. I really admire your outlook and spunk, despite all you've been through health-wise.

thanks for that link, sue
but those are some nasty looking things. hard to imagine that implanted in my pelvis.

I shoulda kept my mouth shut about the kugal patch thing, I think its already been recalled so I'm sure that's not what they used on you.

and I have such a hard time believing you're really petrified of everything irl

Dear youngmommyoftwo,

Take care of yourself and please keep in touch so that we can see how you are doing! x

Hey Sue,

I was just wondering what your reason was for getting your surgery done privately? (Of course if the reasons are personal please feel free to tell me to mind my own business! :)

I haven't worked in the NHS for 8 years or more and have heard things are pretty overstretched staffing wise from friends of mine who are still nurses there. Just wondering if this was a factor?

Also, I had an umbilical hernia repair at age 7. I had had the hernia from when I was a baby. Don't know if it is a much different surgery in children or not, but I have been completely fine and I am sure you will be too this time! :)

The first time I had the surgery in the NHS, the Hernia had got stuck

This is a para umbilical hernia about2 inches above the umbilicus btw

The NHS I went to I did NOT have a good time with. I got none of those sockings that stop DVT as they had none to fit me so they didn't bother. I was in AGONY and waited 4hrs for the morphine injection. I had a bleed and they left me in the same stained nightie thing till I checked out. And - I left with an infection that I got the sum total of ZERO treatment for. After this I got ZERO after care (Remember I already have Multiple Sclerosis - And also had 3 kids to look after as I was on my own at that time Nik was in plymouth until he could get away Devon was only 1yr old)

After this when I found the Hernia again I freaked out! Bro1 said he would loan the money to go Private and I am glad he did. I saw 2 different Doctors and one of them I didn't really like but the other one really knew his stuff and answered all my questions etc and a friend told me about how he worked on her son and did amazing things.

In the Private hospital it was like being in a hotel. They were there when I needed them and I had special DVT stockings that are plugged in and fill themselves with air and release to keep the circulation going...

I think the NHS where I am are severely stretched and they were on the news about MRSA and the MRSA count at the Private place was zero.

I think an adult umbilical hernia does not fix itself I think it just gets bigger and bigger until it is completely open and un-fixable. The Dr was telling me about the HUGE hernias and how hard it is to try to fix them, but I don't really remember much of what he said.

The thing that worried me is that I still have a lump now (Op 16th or March) I realise this may well be swelling as the 'Hernial space' can fill with fluid and weither drains itself or has to be aspirated (That freaks me out too) I see the Dr again on 23rd so will know more then.

Tomorrow I start physio for my hand - That will be 'fun' (Well prolly not - They may splint it) lol

This has been one of the hardest years that I can remember of recent years and we are only just in April! lol

But - I have my family and I am grateful for that :)

Hi youngmommyoftwo. I'm really sorry to hear you're feeling so bad, and for a few years now. Well done on trying the surgical alternatives. I, like others have said, also contemplate surgery. I would/will also wait until I really could not live with my symptoms and had exhausted every other avenue - I'm deffo not there now and hope thanks to Christine's advice I never will be.
What really scares me about surgery is the same as what Sue mentions below. There is another prolapse site that seems quite pro-surgery. Most of the women seem to have had surgery and seem to fairly quickly advocate others having it. A lot of the time their words scare me - pain, incontinence etcetc but even when the words tell you they are fine, their signatures contain a long line of yearly surgery. It really looks like surgery (nearly) always brings more/worse problems and more surgery. I 'know' 2 women from other forums who've had prolapse surgery - one for a UP when she was 15 and at 30 she had actually forgotten all about it until I posted a question, and the other one who had the op for 3 repairs done 2 years ago and promises she feels great. BUT for me the signatures on that 'pro-surgery' site are enough to stop the surgery thoughts in their tracks.
You say you've done all you can - have you visited Christine's centre? I'm suprised how few women on the forum have gone there, if I was living in the States I'd deffo go (and yes I know it's a big country!). Good luck with everything.

I have to agree Mouchoir that the occasional visit to the "other" boards out there tends to act like a major surgical deterrent for me as well. It is all quite depressing, and while I am not knocking those women for their choices, it does paint an extremely awful picture of surgery and some of the Dr's who perform it.

Wow, you came across someone who had a uterine prolapse at 15? Now that makes me feel positively like the archetypal "little old lady" with prolapse! :)

The Dr I went to said "all the ladies are quite happy with their repairs" he then said he would be able to make my vagina tighter --my husband would appreciate that--LOL--since prolapse I am tighter per my husband...and I wouldn't have constant UTI's--haven't had a one...I was very much considering it--I was even anxious for it--wanted it yesterday. I called the Drs. office because I had more questions and spoke to the nurse--I am sure I asked several questions and many about how soon I could go in and have surgery and what that would entail--recovery etc. and she said something that made me think --she said "you need to be very careful about what you decide and know what all the risks are"...the Dr hadn't mentioned any risks at all...she wouldn't elaborate but that is when I went online to find out what I could find out...I suspect that not all of his ladies are happy at all...
I found surgery sites--and this one. Went right back in and said NO...One of the surgery blogs I went to is shut down...totally gone.
The ladies there had horrendous problems--horrible. They were left to deal with it alone too. The Dr had an ego of course and wouldn't acknowledge his failures--blamed the victim. Remember that in surgery decisions...if you present as a failure you could be written off ...you won't be treated like a man with a heart problem--lovingly and with kid gloves...you will be treated as a problem...too emotional and problematic...I see a lot of that on the sites...These are the same Drs that helped us prolapse with their Epi's and the way the managed our labors --my case pushing when I wasn't ready even...every delivery--I must have seemed so capable to them--why not push early and get to go home 30 minutes earlier right? The broken blood vessels heal...

When I am able to face that I guess I will have surgery.
By then though I hope to be an old lady and widowed--if I am alive past my DH...and I will have them sew it all up and tie it with a pretty pink bow!

I've only been a member for about 8 weeks, but I have not seen such a response to a post...I am guessing becuase of its title and the passion within people on the subject. I think it makes for a great discussion and offers both sides of subject of surgery. Everyone has their view and its GREAT!
I read a really great sign the other day and thought about this site when I read it so I will share it (if you don't mind)

MOTTO TO LIVE BY
LIFE SHOULD NOT BE JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN AN ATTRACTIVE AND WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, CHOCOLATE IN ONE HAND, LATTE IN THE OTHER, BODY THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT AND SCREAMING
"WHOO HOO, WHAT A RIDE!"

I really liked it and wanted to share.

Personally, younymommyoftwo, only my own opinion...you have done so much to help yourself and you can always look into your options. I found 2 female surgeons already and have a consult, not for surgery yet, but to ASK a million questions and get a second opinion. I personally, also think that I only want a woman to examine me...I am sorry, but men just dont' have a clue no matter how much schooling has taught them, they have never even had a menstrual cycle :)

Like everyone has asked, please keep us posted
Thanks and good luck to YOU

Momof4,

I LOVE that little motto. I will print it and put it on my fridge!

A nurse practitioner recently said something to me which really resonated as well, she said, "go and enjoy your body because it is a good healthy one!" That made me smile and realise that we ARE truly healthy with prolapse, it is not something which makes us unhealthy at all. In fact, it can draw us towards more complete health in so many ways! :)

You people make me tearful :) And not in a bad way - I am filled with tears and emotion for the immense STRENGTH you all show.

Nobody said life will be an easy ride - And yet it does seem unfair that we hafta bear such an annoying problematic ride...

I am sooooooooooo proud of you all for having the open minds you all have :)

I am so proud to have known every single one of you :)

And this one single post just shows that we are all so very open minded to talk about ALL the options (Unlike some sites where the non surgical option is not allowed to be even spoken about!)

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO VERY VERY PROUD to know you all :)

Sue

i am spotty at best in terms of posting here. but i do (selfishly) check in to see how all are doing & see if there is something that can further my understanding of the whole woman approaches to living with prolapse. i was intrigued by the length of the responses to this topic & took the time to read through it all. i appreciate the honesty expressed & i am always touched by the amount of support that it is extended to all who visit & share there feelings, experiences, etc. however, i was distressed to see the lengthy discussions regarding surgery & the suggestion that we all, at some point, think about it. it was also mentioned that this forum was here to allow for discussions of surgery. that was not my understanding. in the description of the living with prolapse forum it states that it is for women, "who have decided that surgery is not a viable solution to prolapse and who want information and support for working with prolapse naturally. Therefore, we prefer not to focus on various surgical techniques or medical procedures". i am in no way meaning to be antagonistic. i am always touched by the non-judgemental & inspiring discussions here. i just thought this was the tiny little corner of the prolapse world where we would not defer to the gods of medicine -- whether or not that became each individual's final decision. i agree wholeheartedly that it comes down to each person's choice. i just thought that we were taking a different journey here. again, i do not mean to offend anyone. finding this website (as well as all of the brave work to which christine has devoted much of her life) has changed my own life in profound ways. i am eternally grateful & respectful.

best regards,
mary ann

Taking a different road does not mean you never think of 'what ifs' about what might happen if you took the opposite road.

I think for many of us it just confirms to us that our road is the right road for US - But this will never be the right road for ALL people.

:)

I think for alot of people talking is a way of expressing how people always will wonder what would I be like now if.......

That is just natural human type thoughts...

I think discussing both sides opens alot of views and makes us feel more human in a way.

:)

Surgery is something that is always told to us to cure most if not all ills - But we have come to notice that surgery can never fix all... They are 'practicing' doctors because there is always learning to be done in everything - And to be honest I do not want them to do their practicing or learning upon my 'underparticles'

lol

But in the same breath I would never judge someone for making the opposite choice to myself. Who am I to judge what is right for you - or her - or her - I can only make decisions for me :)

I think this is one of the most candid and open discussions we have had on here - But in that it shows that even though alot of us go through some hassles with our prolapses - We are still willing to give it all we have got before we give in and lay ourselves under the knife. And personally - The knife is something I shall avoid - But one can never say never - I do not know what is in store for me 20yrs from now - But - I do know my mother has prolapses and has found a way to live into her 60's without going under the knife and I shall endeavour to do anything and everything I can to avoid it!

Personally I love this thread!

:) Sue

Mary Ann (spacetruck) -- Hi! I think it is okay and maybe necessary to have a discussion like this one periodically. It is not what the site is for, and I don't think we will dwell here long. But if this topic is off limits then the whole body of information here could be seen as just another agenda sort of website. The people here struggle so honestly and openly, it would be very painful not to be able to admit to this part of what you consider when you have this problem. What I'm learning here is priceless. This discussion makes it more so because I cannot stay where expression is discouraged. Knowing that we can "go there", when absolutely necessary, in order to help each other keep to the path we are choosing, only helps. My gratitude to Christine and to all who have invested so much to create this safe and healing space.

Ellen

I just want to say that I came upon this website in a desparate ( and i mean out right scared) search to find out what was going on with my body. Typing in terms like, "vaginal buldge" "something in vaginal opening" brought me to one of the forums. It took a long time to navigate and I am still in the process, but I certainly missed the part about
"who have decided that surgery is not a viable solution to prolapse and who want information and support for working with prolapse naturally. Therefore, we prefer not to focus on various surgical techniques or medical procedures"
I understood the title of the website and the promotion of natural ways to manage such prolapses, but didn't think the "s" word (surgery)was not really wanted. I received much support and am soooo thankful for it. I might not have posted had I known that originally, I may have been scared away. I just thought it was wonderful to have the discussion that was going on.