Surgery and scar's

Submitted by AnneKane on May 13, 2007 - 11:07pm
Body: 

Hi

the newer stuff i'm learning about the significance of scar's could be something to keep in mind for any of our crew thinking of checking out that route.

I'm studying japanese acupuncture at the moment in a style under a particulr master who places a lot of emphasis on checking up on scar's.

My teacher refer;s to surgery as "carpentry" and does the little carpentry gesture to accompany it. (He's a lot of fun), but anyway, if anyone has any scars in the abdomen we have to check out if it's related to the problem they are coming to student clinic with. It's fascinating and any scars that haven't healed well (eg are a little sensitive to touch after years) can cause a myriad of other issue's from depression to ibs.

For example, we had a case where a lady had anxiety, a 20 yr menapause, and ibs and had had appendix removed and gall bladder removed.

We found her appendix scar (huge from when they did surgery in the past) was reallly "active" and the teacher explained how the problem has cascaded through her abdomen becaseu of the damage to fascia, organ's etc.. first going up to the gall bladder then across to the stomach then to the side for the uterus and reproductive organ's..

So we worked a lot on the first scar. As we worked the lady was able to feel pain in the reflected area's lift etc..

Oh yeah and he also explained how it's also important to resolve the trauma that can come with a scar. He tests for this by asking what happened that day the scar occured.. Person say's can't remember = good sign. Say's in detail like i was six - it rained, i was wearing a red dress then it's likely to be more significant with that level of memory attached to it (if in the distant past when you can't remember the rest of the week)

Another really interesting first hand application i had of it was my brother was on the phone to me with a really bad cough which hadn't cleared, he also has a rugby injury on a point which is asociated with the lungs - i asked him on the phone to press in on that space, the space under his inside ankle bump (malleolus) and see if he could breathe different. the coughing stopped and he said he could now inhale. He's a total sceptic with acupuncture, so i was impressed with that. Now i have him booked into clinic to deal with the scar:)

We were all so intruiged by the origional class we did on this we were checking out every tiny scar, including vaccine scar's (can cause shoulder pain).

So anyhoo, it's put me right off any surgery and if i get a new scar i take real good care of it (rosehip etc..) and for those who are interested just thought i'd pass it on.

Best wishes

Anne-helen

howdidthishappen

May 14, 2007 - 4:13am

Anne-Helen:

This is so interesting. It makes me think of a personal experience I had recently where I was working with an herbalist and it was our first visit together. We were talking about my daughter's birth (over 7 1/2 years ago!) which led to alot of tearing (though no episiotomy.) Anyways, Robin asked me about it, and I started to tell her about the birth and became so very emotional, remembering it in detail. It had been quite traumatic for me and Robin, after simply listening quietly to my story, remarked that there was a lot of healing to do still around the birth as there was so much emotional still connected to it. And I did, and still do, completely agree. Sounds exactly in line with what your teacher was saying. Makes total sense to me...thanks for the reminder!

Take care.

xsuan

MeMyselfAndI

May 14, 2007 - 7:26am

Wow - interesting!

I have many scars - From two surgeries for Hernia and episiotomy x 2 and a tear... Makes you wonder whether they would cause other problems...

My latest surgery (Keyhole March 16th 2007) Left me with 5 new scars and a couple of tiny ones (I think he marked me where he put things cos after the fact he said something like 'I marked where i put it' and the little 'marks' look like someone snipped me with scissors at three points that if you did join the dots (there may be 4 - lol) They would make a square/diamond etc, plus the entry points for the scope and stuff...

I wonder if they will heal well or not - All bar one left only a small line but the one that is largest (About an inch) Is a raised line.

Makes you wonder...

granolamom

May 14, 2007 - 10:21am

my mom has developed chronic shoulder pain, I wonder if its related to her smallpox vax scar?

and what are your thoughts on this case...a dear friend of mine had cardiac surgery as a child and her gallbladder removed a few years ago. she's got some significant scarring. she also suffers terrible from IBS, OCD and generalized anxiety.

where can I learn more about this? how would I find an acupuncturist who does this kind of 'scar work'?

and I will definitely pay closer attention to any new scars I or my children get. we usually just massage vit E oil on it, never heard of rosehip for scarring...you take it as a supplement or use it topically?

thanks

AnneKane

May 14, 2007 - 10:49pm

hi

The work i'm learning is based on Kiiko matsumoto's style Japenese acupuncture, I think i wrote before about being treated for prolapse at her seminar and her linking my 'cele to my allergic response to the contractpive bill years ago and then the subsequent excessive use of local drug pessaries like flaggyl.

As far as i know she is based in Boston and i think her website is kiiko.com. There are two practitioner's here in toronto, one my teacher, and i guess the site would list more worldwide. I suppose you could say there's one soon coming to ireland - Me! lol .. Just getting excited about not being a student for the first time in years and couldn't resist that!

Oh yeah, I think also mary elizabeth wakely does work with scar's and teaches it, but i think that's from a more cosmetic acupuncute perspective and i think it's based on kiiko's idea's. Plus pple taking her short 2 day seminar's could have any background (i.e chiropractor's with those 80 hour courses mmmm), so i don't think there's going to be the same level of expetise at all ...

The comment's below were really interesting, i do find scar's fascinating now.. I really don't know if you're mom's shoulder problem is related to that. There would be no way to tell without a practitioner seeing her. It's possible, but shoulder pain is so common and has so many causes. One thing to suggest is that she not sleep on that side. The human body is a lot of weight to lean on one side of the body. From the japenese perspect on the back is best especially with shoulder prob's on the side you sleep on.

The second case, my feeling is that it's likely her scarring could be contributing to what's going on for her allright.The heart is realy key for emotion's the mind and of a sense of grounding in tcm and perhap's if the muscle and fascia were scarred there could have been the impact you describe over time for her emotional state.

Plus the knock on effect over her abdomen and the organ's there. The first thing we do is press on along the scar methodically looking for pain or sensitivity, if it feels/looks "like normal" that's usually a good sign, any other sensation, pain numbness etc.. or gumminess temparature differences, adhesion's or the person hates to be touched there that's where we begin to think there could be something going on.

The scar should be "soft thin and painless" and around the same tempreature as the surrounding area according to the book.

Oh and when palpating scars especially on the abdomen, it's not enough to just check the superficial level you gotta palpare at the muscular level (ab wall). Plus come scar's problem's are manifest underneat like teh bikini cut. The skin is incised transversely but the deeper scar is perpendicular to the skin so two scars at right angles to each other for a hysterectomy have to be palpated for example...

Piesrcing's and tatoos are also seen as scar's b.t.w.. k as usally i'm off writing an essay!

In term's of where you could learn about it,Kiiko's book is called "kiiko matsumoto's clinical strategies2 but i don't think it's something that would be accesable to the non acupuncturist.

And Rosehip i use topically yeah.

Best wishes

Anne-helen

Grandma Joy

May 22, 2007 - 11:37pm

Hi Anne-helen,

The two previous posts you made really interest me. I had come to realize I have more scar tissue problems than I first thought. Mine come from mastectomies, but I am horribly affected all over my body - I found this out by having a full body spasm!!! I am not in an area where there is an acupuncturist (not sure I can do it anyway because of lymphedema, also caused by surgeries)but can accupressure help take care of the scarring and the pulling on the fascia? Some therapists who are well trained in trigger point therapy(more than just a few hours for ceu's)have been helpful. I have, in the past, been able to access therapists who do the Barnes method of myofascia release but it's very difficult to get back to them, not to mention expensive. Are there pressures I can teach myself to do?

I am a perfect example of how surgery can affect the whole body permanently; this is the first and biggest reason why I refused the prolapse surgery - I already had first hand knowledge of what happens when the knife cuts through and/or destroys fascia and other tissues. The scarring and scar tissue pulls in many places and very deeply and I can tell when it pulls up, down, crosswise or through my body. Even getting stressed can cause it to flare. Usually, it will affect the prolapse within a few days after becoming stressed.

I would appreciate hearing from you about this and I will check out kiiko's site.

Thanks and blessings,
Grandma Joy

AnneKane

May 28, 2007 - 10:43pm

Hi

That's hard, what you're been through i mean, with the masectomy scar's and how you feel the tissue flare up when you get stressed, it's unbelievable to me that doc's aren't more cautious with scar healing, just don't take much more care post surgery when they see the result's and the pain pple suffer in the aftermath..

And by the way, sorry for the delay - just saw you're post tonight. It's pretty late here right now, but tomorow i'll type out some stuff from the book that you could do for yourself (using magnet's far as i remember), i should have thought to do that before - there was also a pretty good section on hysterectomy surgery that i'll type out a synopsis of when i get a chance. ('Nother exam saturday - bah!)

Acupressure.. i dunno, it;s a very different system to chinese acupunct. so i'm not sure it would be effective or that i could even explain how to do it through text very well without you having a background, diagram's, a demonstration.... A lot of the work is based on palpation of the person's body with reference to another part of the body and a process of elimination if plan a. doesn't work..

I'll do my best to find you way's to do as much as you can for yourself though, i like to be self sufficient too and going to ppple for treatment's all add's up (and as you said can be real hard to access.)

Trigger point work i know little about - it's more western based that the work we do far as i know. I think a lot of doc's/ chiro's phisio's etc.. do it (appropriating tcm ?). Easy learned and taught as far as i know. If it has result's great but i'm sceptical about the depth of treatment from anything learnt and practiced at a superficial level or from courses that condense a complex, profound and elegent system of medicine into like, three weekends :)

xx

Anne-helen

AnneKane

May 30, 2007 - 9:29am

Using magnet's for problematic scars-

"2500-3000 gauss magnets for twenty minutes during treatment and 600-800 gauss for the patient to keep on untill the next treatment.

"several way's -
1. north pole of magnet placed at the most painfull point on the scar , south pole of a second magnet at a secondary point that feels numb, strange or less painfull,

the other two method's require knowledge of meridian (lines of energy flow)directions, and of the acupuncture points that relieve the scar pain so not so usefull for the general user

These are meant to be used in treatment and between treatments so i'm not sure of efficacy or use out of that context.. for examply how long to leave them on.. perhaps refer to some book or site on magnets for that..

Maybe if it relieves some issue's for you it could serve as a test or a diagnostic clue that something is happening from those scars as related to particular problem's. And at least their inexpensive and easy to use, just stick em on and go :)

----------------
Hysterectomy scars -

"this scar may cause a disturbance to all organs in the pelvic cavity (tan tien), ren mai, chong mai and kidney meridians. some of the more common symptoms include scatica, chronic gassy hara (abdomen area), ileocecal valve spasm, constant feeling of a bladder infection (with no infection) tight back, incontinance, constipation, consstipation, and quadratus lomborum muscle ache. "

Kiiko goes on to describe a case of a woman who had "hysterectoem scar and anxiety" md described as a nervous breakdown, whereby the shock and truamy affected her adrenals very significantly scars and adrenals treated and within five treatment's she was sleeping again and the anxiety had left (after approx five years problems)

So that's the japaanese acupuncture take and some mgnet use (well the nagano style japanese acupuncture take as described by kiiko :) for anyone interested.

xx
Best wishes

Grandma Joy

June 5, 2007 - 11:58pm

Hi Anne-helen,

Thanks for your reply. My single line surgical scars are soft. The biggest problem is the entire chest area where the surgeon "scraped the chest wall" destroying the fascia, ultimately causing all the fascia throughout my body to "pull". The scar tissue on the chest becomes hard and tightens, then pulls, which causes related pain elsewhere, including with the prolapse. This takes daily care, stretching and gentle exercise. I did try a magnetic bracelet on one arm to see if it would help with the lymphedema - it didn't - it caused a huge knot on the forearm that took six months to go away. I found out later the bracelet was made of hematite which was charged? with magnets or something like that. Just something cheap and easy and not the real thing so wasn't worth it. It definitely was not the real type of magnets you mentioned and I have not yet found anyone close who does accupuncture or the magnets.

The whole woman posture and exercises has helped me tremendously, not only with the prolapse but the whole woman who is me.

Thanks again,
Grandma Joy