prolapse in the animal kingdom

Submitted by babs on June 1, 2007 - 8:06am
Body: 

I've been thinking a lot about prolapse in recent days.

I was brought up on a farm, and over the years we witnessed many dramatic cases of prolapse. Many of these happened to animals who had laboured on their own without intervention or where they had not cleaned properly (retained placenta).

What we would have seen was cows and pigs who had put out their "calf bed" or their "pig bed".

It is easy to blame intervention in human labour(and I do think poor labouring positions and episiotomies have a lot to answer for), but bottom line, these things can happen anyway, even in an entirely natural environment.
I do believe good posture is important. However as someone who holds to creation and not evolution I do not accept that the female pelvis is poorly designed. Rather it is a marvel that a baby can come out through it and yet my innards stay in. Nor do i wish to emulate the posture of primates, not holding to evolution from them.
Likewise having seen what happens down on the farm I don't think the fact that we walk on two legs accounts for prolapse either, as it happens in cows and pigs and sheep too.

I haven't found sticking my butt out when walking to be helpful, but better posture, with shoulders back and sternum raised, and breathing to fill my lungs has helped.

Likewise i have a womb that is tipped backwards. It was like that before I had children. My Mum and sisters are the same, so its not about returning to a 7 axis for me. I never had that in the first place. Yet before I had children I didn't have the bulges that are with me now, so my retroverted womb and my lack of the 7 axis cannot account for my prolapses now, otherwise I would have had them all my life.

What I do value from this site and the book is teaching me that surgery is not the answer!

But yet I still long for more. I am not satisfied with just accepting the status quo. I want more than that. I long for improvement. To be "cured". or at least to be improving.

Little things can help along this way. Women should share these things with each other as they do on these forums. Knowledge should be shared, collective wisdom passed on. This sharing should be done not for profit or personal gain. That's why these forums are so valuable.

Christine

June 1, 2007 - 2:22pm

Dear Babs,

The story of how animals – from fish to primates – manage to perform excretory and reproductive functions without expelling their internal organs is a fascinating one, for it has always been the most significant design problem in nature. Although prolapse certainly happens very rarely in the wild, it is obvious that our agricultural animals are much less resistant. I believe the same is true for the domesticated woman.

The retroflexed uterus is thought to be an acquired problem in women as well where “The uterine corpus (body), swinging on a more or less fixed transverse axis at about the level of the internal cervical os, falls backward, and the intraabdominal pressure falls on the anterior surface of the corpus, thus aggravating and maintaining the uterine retrodisplacement. Once retroflexion and retroversion of the uterus have begun, they can be completed easily by intraabdominal pressure on the anterior surface.” (TeLinde’s Operative Gynecology 1996). Medical science cites weak uterosacral ligaments as the cause. I see it as a total musculoskeletal problem where women have lost, or perhaps never fully developed, their natural, highly prolapse-resistant design.

I am sorry you do not understand the mechanics of natural female posture and how they form the foundation of your pelvic organ support system.

Regarding your comment that sites like these should not be done for profit or personal gain strikes me as a bit sanctimonious and certainly reflects an ignorance of how this body of knowledge came about. Do you think that the ten years I spent struggling with a surgically induced prolapse, four years of nursing education, intense years of research and writing to produce the first edition of Saving the Whole Woman, an additional year of research and writing for the second edition, endless hours on the forum answering questions, researching the literature for the most up-to-date information, the $30,000 of work my husband traded to our web developers for this site that you enjoy do not justify some compensation? Knowledge is very expensive to produce and even more expensive to deliver. Anyone who expects to get paid in exchange for the value they’ve delivered has earned it.

Christine

MeMyselfAndI

June 1, 2007 - 3:44pm

Sorry if I misread your comments but it makes me wanna say -

I can safely say that Christine does not just do this for her personal gain.

I have not given one penny to this site - But I have had MAJOR help from Christine personally, and she had serious patience with me when I got here to help me understand how things would work fo rme.

t no time was I ever asked for money!

The reason she wrote her book (In my opinion ) Is to get the message out to far more women. not everyone will have heard of this web site but many many women will go to a Library and they will research there.

If she writes a book she has to sell said book or she would ed up in a money pit making her bankrupt and unable to write any more.

This site is NOT for her personal gain and this site does not ask you for money or require payment to join in any way - In fact quite the opposite - She gives out the information freely and asks for nothing in return!

I can say that Christine has been a major part in freeing me from the worries and fears I can here with - And the posture is not just about sticking out your butt - lol If only it was.

The fact that you have a retroverted uterus could be why you find the posture not working for you? Even my latest doctor told me about internal pressures and this helping the healing of a hernia operation I had in March.

The Human Body is a wonderful thing but as in animals things happen and we have to live with them and spread the word as to what has worked in us - It is only human to want to spread this word to all and sundry and there are many women here who have gained amazing help from this.

if it were all about the money Christine would refuse to give out any information without receiving money frompeople and she is just the opposite of that :)

To be honest I feel that Christines personal gain is knowing that people like myself will forever thank her because we did not go under the knife :) I thank you whole heartedly for that Christine.

Anyways I sure hope you find help for your problems and that you feel the relief that the women here do :)
Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

alemama

June 1, 2007 - 8:15pm

Hey babs- I agree totally that what we women want is something to blame this condition on. At least in the beginning. When we have to take responsibility for our own health it is hard to come to terms with the fact that we didn't know prolapse could happen to us or even what a non-prolapsed vagina feels like.
It is complicated to extrapolate a cow or sheep to a woman. So many many differences. I think just like anything else there a similarities- but there are also major differences.
As to the design of the female pelvis- I do not think anyone on this forum has said that it is a flawed design. I know Christine attributes some prolapse to domestication- the easy life- and I also have a hard time swallowing that because then it would be my fault- and I don't want that type of responsibility. In my case I have always been very fit, ate well, and not so "domesticated" and I still ended up with prolapse. But if creature comforts contributed to my prolapse- well so be it.
I hear you when you say you want a cure- Don't we all? But a cure is not on the horizon. We must all explore what will help each of us and we have a duty to become information beacons. Telling other women that prolapse is possible and what helps to prevent it and stabilize it.
I see that you got some response to your comments about personal gain. I think sometimes the ladies here and yes even Christine herself get a little defensive about this work (very non-status quo by the way). It is helping so many women. It is hard to hear anything "critical". I did not see any direct criticism. Maybe if I tried to read between the lines I could see an implication of greed, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt when reading posts, so much gets lost in the print. I think you were just talking about how wonderful this site is. Is that right? If so I totally agree- this place has been a life-line for me.
And while we are on the topic- I think it is clear that if Christine gets anything out of this website it is our honest feedback as to what is or isn't working. So if this isn't working for you then your feedback is valuable. Give it time though- it may.
I appreciate how honest everyone here is-
Don't be put off by abrupt responses. We are here to support you in your journey-

MeMyselfAndI

June 2, 2007 - 12:51am

To be honest I have never seen greed on this site and I have been here nearly two years.

It is like we want to tell everyone but not everyone is in a place where they wanna listen.

I have been extremely fat and extremely fit. That is not the answer as I felt invincible and I still ended up where I am today... Sh*t happens right.

I really feel that when women are younger they should be informed of this malady and told about posture and how it could help this to not happen but there are no promises and having children or no - You just mght be predisposed to getting this.

Who knows right.

We just work on getting the word out and helping as many women as we can. Not being millionaires all we have is word of mouth and words can crossmany boundaries. But alot of people now want a quick fix and they think that surgery is that - then find out after the fact that it brings its own problems.

I have been happy here to support many women who have arrived frightened and feeling like life is at an end - I have happily emailed with themand told them my story how I got here a nervous wreck and how I am now - An empowered woman who has grown so much inside of herself that she has come to understand how fantastic the female body is and how you do not always hafta hand youself over to a doctor to be saved - cos he doesnt always have the answer and sometimes his answer is not the right answer and to be honest - Surgery is something I plan to avoid :) :) :) :)

Women - in the past have always held each other up in hard times - And now - We hold each other accross the world, in a warm and homely place - And yup - That is here - lol

:)

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

babs

June 2, 2007 - 5:01am

Hi all,

the comment was intended as a generalisation, and was limited to these forums. it was not intended as a criticism of your book witing or whole woman centre. it was imply a praise of the culture of women helping women that is so well demonstrated within these forums.

Christine, i have no doubt that your personal experience and research qualifies you to be an expert on these matters, and indeed to enjoy the rewards of being an expert in your field. as you say you've "earned it".

sorry if i came across as "sanctimonious". truth be told i was a little narked at the bluntness of your put down and dismissal of the yoga exercise on the other forum.

for a brief moment i had this awful and uncharitable thought, namely that for you to recommend any technique to the sometimes dispairing women who frequent these forums, it must first have "wholewoman tm" appended to it. however i accept thats not fair.

as to my understanding of posture etc., it is possible to be ignorant of how every muscle interacts, yet still be self aware enough to know if your body is doing what you want it to do. for example i can't describe the exact mechanism with which i raise my arm then fold my elbow, then stretch it out again and wiggle my fingers. doubtless you can. however i still know whether i can do those things, and likewise i am self aware enough to know whether i feel a lift on an exercise or not, whether it is helping me or is frustrating, exhausting or pointless.

prolapse is so frustrating. we talk about living well with prolapse, but inevitably i think it is about learning to accept prolapse and if it be possible embracing the new "defective/injured" you.

i did try the posture after my last child when i would have had stress incontinence. my woman's health physio who was then much in favour of conservative management of prolapse did read your book on my recommendation. she however recommended the neutral pelvis of pilates.

even since my last baby was born 8 weeks ago today, i have tried to use the posture to restore my lumbar curve.

yoga has seen the first noticeable improvement in my condition, so i will persevere. yoga seems to have been important in your journey too.

in the past improvement has really often been an improvement in how i feel. a step towards self acceptance, acceptance of my new altered reality. however its hard to come to terms with that reality in your early 30s.

i do thank you for the body of your research which i stumbled across through these forums just at a time when i was demanding surgery to "fix me". as a result of this i did buy your book, and this has been foundational in my own "journey". i wish all you ladies well in yours.

regards babs