Is surgery so bad in all cases?

There has to be someone who has had a happy ending - Surely? Must be! BUT...
You hafta ask them what they gave up for this? If they are unable to carry heavy things (or told not to) then the change in life is dramatic.

Women of this Century do a helluva lot more (well slot of us) manual work and stuff than in the old days - In the old days women were washing cleaning and cooking - Not really heavy lifting terrifically, and some people say they have no problems because they do not want to admit to themselves that things are as they truly are.

But - There has to be someone who has had no problems I guess.

The Question is - Would that be you? That is a BIG question as my Grandmother had a 'Bl;adder stitch up' also - She never knew but everytime she was to visit us (Sorry Nan) We ran about like morons trying to cover 'her seat' with plastic as she was completely incontinent but didn't really notice this! (God knows how) It is a shame as her Bladder stitch up just made her problem ten times worse :(

She had two stitch ups I think and each time it got worse. :-(

I think you would hafta weigh up the pros and cons FOR YOU.

You are obviously really contemplating surgery - So you would have to say 'Am I wanting to risk it on this 'fix' ?'

If you take this risk and it fails - There is nothing more you are left with but surgery all the time (The other website where i have been scared me so much as all they did was list reams of different surgeries nearly every year.

I dont think anyone here would talk you out of surgerfy if this is what you feel is right for you - But if I were you I would wanna go in with my eyes WIDE open to the doors that you could have then slammed shut - And the roads you will then hafta traverse because of the altered insides you now hold.

I had surgery in March. I had a recurrent hernia - Firt time I had it stitched up - It came back :-( This time I had the mesh and it's early days but I pray that this will hold. This kind of surgery I had no choice over as the first time my Hernia got strangulated and I was rushed into surgery to fix it as that can kill you. This time I did not want that to happen again - Not many people get two chances at a strangulated hernia! And the surgery hurt like hell - But you get through the pain - Then after that my insides are changed. Luckily in this surgery posture still works for me as none of my 'female anatomy' down below was changed. If I had mesh to fix prolapse - then the posture would no longer work as things are moved and altered and natural pressures inside are not allowed to do their thing.

Anyways I digress.

Using the posture takes a while to get it right - Finding relief the oment you rget into posture - takes maybe 4 weeks or more - But if you live your life in posture - You just dont notice it any more and the prolapse leaves your constant mind and becomes a memory of the past.

Guess I remember mine as I am on this site all the time, but when I am not here - Prolapse is not something I think about that much any more. The fear is gone - My life is normal agian :)

Basically it is up to you this is your life your future. Whatever choice you make I pray it is the right one. And I wish you well :)

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

I think each person's experience is unique so I am not judging anyone at all that ends up getting surgery. I agree that all natural methods should be tried first (and cystocele seems to respond very well) before surgery is considered because of the risks. However, if you have tried everything (like me) that has been suggested i.e., posture, diet etc. and you are still suffering then you might want surgery. There are many women on here that say they don't even notice their prolapses anymore after the posture etc. and that is wonderful. I could care less what I "look like" down there so I would never do surgery because of that. However I am one of the exceptions who DOES notice my prolapse continuously and suffer with it constantly even after trying the posture and everything else. By the way it is my rectocele that I still suffer with I think. I have had improvements in the other two. But once I am done having kids I will seriously consider surgery if I am still suffering like this. Yes there are possible side effects from surgery but I am living constantly with side effects right now too. My life is already very limited. I would give anything to be one of those women who has improved greatly from the natural methods but unfortunately that isn't the case so I will not shut the door on surgery. I will pray that it doesn't come to that but who knows what the future will hold. And yes there women that have had the surgery without problems. My grandma had her bladder "stitched up" many years ago and she hasn't had any problems since. I don't think we read much about the successful surgeries because they don't look for support groups etc. on the internet. Anyone is taking a risk though. There are probably really bad outcomes and really good outcomes and then some in between.

I think surgery is such a personal decision. I am sure that there are some positive outcomes. Its hard to know statistically speaking, what the rate of success truly is.
I think before scheduling a 'stitch up' you'd want to know you've given the alternatives a fair shot, you've researched the procedure well and are fully aware of potential adverse outcome/side effects etc.
then you have to take into account how bad your symptoms are and how bad the worst case post op scenario is and your risk tolerence.

the stories that really bring tears to my eyes are those of uninformed or misinformed patients. but if you know what you're getting into and your symtoms are intolerable, then perhaps surgery is a viable option.

the only thing that gets me a bit nervous about your post, beejay, is that you say you'd be tempted if its good for 10 to 20 years or so. just be aware that the first surgery is more likely to be successful than following surgical procedures. so say its all good for 10 years and then you'd need it done again, but this time around its more likely to fail. just something to think about.

Hi Beejay

Sorry, I did not realise you were having a lot of pain. That adds a whole different dimension to living with prolapse. Yow!

I think you really don't know which way to turn, as pain greets you if you turn one direction, and uncertainty greets you in the other direction. Coming here is maybe a good way to discuss it. At least you are discussing it, rather than just jumping in to surgery hoping like all that it will work. I wish more women would, like you, at least discuss it and find out all the information they need before commiting their body to uncertain changes, or not even being clear as they go under anaesthetic as to what the surgeon will do when s/he is in there.

I have just had a look at your old posts and it occurs to me that you have only had a formal diagnosis for a few days, and that you are probably just about to have a period. Bad time to have an optimisstic outlook when your belly is all out of sorts and emotions can be a bit 'off'. I have been there in the last week, and had doubts myself. You are also making your way through Christine's book which is pretty heavy on new information, and you have just found out about this belly breathing thing, which I think is in the book anyway. You have also started to talk to your relatives about their experiences, which may or may not relate to outcomes that surgery would produce for you.

No wonder your questions are coming thick and fast, and no wonder you are suffering from conflicting information.

There are three problems with trying to assess what the researchers say.

1 Christine demonstrates in her book that the only outlook studies done indicate results a maximum of 5 years after surgery (Not long in a woman's lifetime, which I think is why so many women have a lot of repeat surgeries, each of which will probably have a less successful outcome than the last. Stats show that second and subsequent surgeries are 'grasping at straws'.)

2 There seems to be zero research done on the mechanisms of how a woman's body, posture and gait changes as she ages. I have spent days at my computer, looking for this research. It has not been done. All the work just assumes that people get stooped as they age, that they get osteoporosis, that their stride gets shorter, and that they move slower. Nobody has researched what happens for people with upright, primitive-style (for want of a better word), Wholewoman-type posture (nobody has even said the word Wholeman yet!), compared for people who have a slouched posture earlier in life, as they age. Nobody has measured sacro-lumbar angle in subjects with and without prolapse, let alone over the course of a lifetime. Nobody has studied the effect of posture on the likelihood or incidence of urinary incontinence. Christine's formal Wholewoman methods have only been around for a few years, and have not yet been scientifically assessed for their success, so it is not possible to say which has the better statistical outcomes.

3 Surgeons do not acknowledge the reasons for further prolapse and incontinence following surgical procedures, sometimes years afterwards. Christine has her explanation, there is a space after surgery that something else will fall into! Nobody knows whether the onset of further prolapses in women who have not had surgery would have happened regardless as a woman ages. As prolapses sometimes happen in stages it is hard to say what causes them. I think it is usually an episode of stress, eg constipation, heavy lifting, lots of coughing etc that further tears the fascial supports of the pelvic organs. For women who have had surgery that is excacerbated by the artificial support system which unbalances the stresses on the fascial structures and sets them up to tear further, just like trying to mend a rip in a lightweight curtain. It will never be smooth again. there will always be a point where it will form a hole again.

Whichever ways you decide to go, I would suggest that you give Wholewoman methods a try for at least six months. Initially, I think it will be important for you to go to somebody who can assess your posture and breathing, and teach you to breathe into your belly. This might be a yoga teacher. Other Members may be able to advise on which brand of Yoga might work best.

Once you have your breathing sorted out I think you will find the postural changes will be easier. You may need the help of some sort of masseuse to get some flexibility into your pelvis and lower back, and to help your hamstring muscles (down the backs of your thighs) to stretch and allow your lumbar curve to take its natural shape. All these things and more go together to address your symptoms. *Then* you may get some relief from the pain and heaviness you are currently experiencing. That's one of the reasons why it is called WHOLEwoman. Surgery will only address the problems at a local level.

It may well be better for you to have surgery. Only you will be able to tell. But please don't make any irreversible decisions or sign anything in the week before your period!!! ;-) The mind and body play funny tricks.

Look Beejay, we are all so different. One woman's pain and fullness is another woman's mild discomfort, and yet another woman's reason to get in the car and bang on a surgeon's desk, begging him/her to take away the pain, (even if it is ultimately replaced by other pain).

I am in a space where I have had considerable pain, fullness, and heaviness in the last 48 hours, but my period came yesterday, the black cloud is lifting and my whole body feels lighter already.

I just implore you to get cracking seriously with the breathing, new posture and non-constricting clothing. Don't expect miracles. It is not a cure, but neither is surgery. It will take some time, weeks maybe, to become easy, and you will always need to be mindful of your posture and correct it when you notice it is sagging (lifetime memories need to be overcome). I don't care what anybody says, we all need to keep correcting ourselves.

If you really can't hack the pain and discomfort during the learning phase then surgery may be your path. Do what you can without surgery first, then you will be content, whatever decision you make.

Keep calling back for input. Good luck. Pain sucks.

REMEMBER THAT YOU CAN ALSO BUY CONSULTATIONS WITH CHRISTINE FROM THE WHOLEWOMAN STORE, VIA THE WHOLEWOMANCENTER.

Cheers

Louise

I had that broken glass feeling and since I've gone back to yoga, it's gone. There is one especially good yoga position that seems to do a lot. It's called the separate leg stretch. With feet 3-4 feet apart and parallel, bend at the hip - not the waist - and hinge down until you can put your hands comfortably on the ground. If you can fold your arms, hang in this position about a minute with straight legs. It feels really good and seems to put everything back in place. If you draw all muscles upward at the same time, it's really nice. The end position is to have head on floor and arms around ankles. It takes practice and a straight back. Good luck.

She also told me her best friend had this 'stitch up' thing done - It did no good at all which is why when they offered it to my Mum she just said No.

I hope that you can get some alleviation of your pain. My mother had sciatica in one leg and that drive her mad with pain. She now ha bad arthritis and is always in agony :( But there are helpful pain clinics out there - If you can find out exactly what is making the pain then you have somewhere to start from.

If this is prolapse related pain - What exactly is it like and where if you don't mind me asking.

The backache usually eases as your spine gets used to the new posture - Then it is not an issue anymore. :)

The DVD can be posted to the UK - I am also in the Uk by the way :)

So you can sit without pain, and when you stand the pain is ni your back? or dragging down below? If you can detail exactly what hurts and where and when it might be easier to offer a possible solution as prolapse gave my mother back pain (a dragging sensation) and she had the pessary and then she told me it is soooooooooo much better. You could try sea sponges - I tried and didn't get on with them so I would still have one or two somewhere (opened but unused) if you want I will post them to you - Hopefully I will be able to find the paperwork to go with them also - will go look now - BRB

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

Been trying to contact you by email Beejay - But you havent turned that on in your options yet...

Hi

i too have a urethracele and bladder prolapse but i've never felt any pain. I got the impression it's uncommonly connected to the type of pain you're talking about.

It's just that in acupuncture, (the programme i've just finished taking) it's a pretty common symptom of dsymennorhea to have sharp stabbing pain (like broken glass) before menstruation for many women.

It's seen as what's called "a blood stagnation" where the memses is just not quite getting going at the beginning and this stuck blood stagnates and causes a pain that is charachterised as very sharp - like a stabbing pain allmost...

So perhaps it's this? There's many great way's to deal with pain, acupcunture is one of them (tho of course i'm biased), and as one lady wrote Yoga's great too.

As for arthritis - i've heard great things from pple about apple cider vinager. two tablespoons ACV to one of raw honey in a glass of hot water (ie half boiling half tap cold). SHould see results in day's. But it's sorta unpleasant. Better than pain tho. Oh and rinse you're mouth out after as it's abrasive on tooth surface.

"VItality" mag has a good article on it if you google it...

xx
Anne-helen

if you search sea sponge you can find out more about them - You can buy them in uk postal wise, they are better than a pessary as you can remove them etc if you want to but a normal pessary you can forget about etc

Sorry i totally forgot about this and didnt catch your answer

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg