prolapse getting worse and I'm getting panicky

Hi Zandria

That was a good idea to ask a doctor. It must have been driving you mad not knowing what was going on. Let's hope the infection and the pain clears, then you will be able to deal with what is happening with the cystocele without being distracted by the infection.

Call back.

Cheers

Louise

Listen if i could turn back the clocks I would but I can't. What i will say to you is this... If you never had any repairs yet for your cystoceles. you need to find a gyno plastic surgery who has assistant with urology doctor and rectal doctor.. Never let just an ordinary gyn perform this surgery alone. you need 3 doctors on hand.

Hi Dearie,

Louise is probably snoozing at this hour so I will jump in and say her “call back” always means “come back here, to the forum.” :-)

It’s impossible to say what might’ve pulled as you leaned over, but my guess is something along the suture lines. In c-section they also close the uterus with two layers of permanent suture material – the site of infection perhaps?

Many women experience their prolapse worsening after an acute event like surgery or birth. I absolutely believe you will recover from this episode and reach a point of stabilization. It would be good to read Jane’s (fullofgrace) posts for inspiration because she was sectioned too and went on to manage her condition just fine.

Cystocele is highly resistant to surgical repair. After all is said and done with the “gold standard” of treatment, the bladder is inevitably pulled toward the back to form another cystocele.

I will also take this opportunity to mention that it hardly matters what sort of multidisciplinary team performs the surgery. It is the operations themselves that are based on faulty principles and erroneous concepts.

Take a deep breath Suzanne, you can do this!

Christine

Remember that leaning slightly over forms an obtuse angle. It doesn’t matter how we rotate the angle in space, i.e. doing the classic Pilates V or leaning slightly over at the waist and holding it there – these positions are (almost) equally stressful. If you continue bending forward to a full right angle the stress is eliminated, but kind of an impractical position for many tasks.

My husband does consulting work for a big Yoga company. He noticed they were offering postpartum classes and picked up their brochure, only to be shocked by the picture on the front of a large group of women holding the V pose while balancing their babies on their tummies! Sigh…..

Nah, I wasn't asleep. Just a busy sewing day. I can only agree completely with Christine. Yes, I meant call back to the Forum. It is very useful to hear the end of a story, and we may be able to help with your next stage.

You know, often we feel we have to do everything we can in response to a crisis, but sometimes it is best to do things one at a time, and give them time to have their effect. Sometimes doing very little and allowing the body to recover itself is more effective than throwing the whole batch of treatments at it.

Thinking of you.

Louise

Hi Suzanne,

Sorry…was confused about the time frame of your c-section.

These methods do not hinge upon the ability to walk, although the more of our body we have working, the better of course. If I could only sit and walk from room to room (which I do on some days!) I would still always do so breathing naturally and pulled up into the posture.

So hope you can find some stability with it all.

xC.

i had a cystocele and a rectocele...You don't have to live with it..I had surgery on July 30 of this year and I did wonderfully...It is so great...I mean I have had no problems and it is so great to not have my bladder haning out of me...I lived with it for about 12 years..I am 45 and I refused to live the rest of my life like that...Please check into your options of surgery...My experience has been great...If you have any questions about it please contact me..Have a great day..

And if your relief is still good 15 years from now I would have it in a heartbeat. LONG TERM cure is what I care about. That rate needs to be very high for me to do it.

My research does not show me this is the case. Just quick googling right now I found a study finding that only 46% of pelvic organ repair patients felt subjectively that their repair had held up 15 to 19 years after the surgery. Only 56% percent were in a visible state of repair. In other words, in 44% of the patients, the doctor was able to SEE the returned defect and 54% of the patients had actual symptoms again.

That is a cure rate of 50% allowing for statistical variation. And that is only 15 years. One suspects that after 20 or 30 years the rate is even lower.

50/50 are NOT good odds for me. Particularly when I realize the failure might not be just a return to my previous condition, but a condition worse than I had originally started out with.

I am really glad you got relief and do hope you are in the half of people who are still just as happy 15 years from now.

The core subject matter of Wholewoman, is non-surgical management of Prolapse... I am really starting to wonder what people think this site is about.

Btw AnneH - 50% seems a bit of a high number to me as from what I have read - I have not read of one single person who has had surgery and has not had to have ANY futher intervention afterwards. It would actually be nice to read of one person who had a non-eventful recovery and next 10-15yrs. There must be someone out there who has had surgery once alone and not had to have another to re-fix it - Surely.

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

Sue, the problem when you say you have not heard of one woman who didn't have problems, is that the only women who think about it and therefore blab about it are the ones who have problems. So this "anecdotal" evidence is actually bogus. But it will work on us emotionally of course, since 100% of everyone we hear talk about it have problems. We're just not hearing from the group who DON'T have problems, but they might be just as big as the group that does. Only an objective controlled scientific study can TRULY show us the accurate picture.

However, having said that, I strongly suspect that you are right and that the percentage of dissatisfaction is probably higher. This is because I suspect the study used certain limited terminology, such as asking the woman if her "incontinence has been corrected". Well, maybe it has, and she would say "yes" and if that were the end of the story then that would show up as a success. But perhaps the woman now has weak stream, or trouble beginning the stream. Unless the researchers expand their questioning to include NEW symptoms, the study will be skewed toward cure, when in reality, women are still left dissatisfied. This is postulating on my part but it comes from years of experience talking to doctors, and having to give them answers like, "well technically, yes, it's better, but actually I still have to deal with....."

Hi AngelaKay

It's great now. Of course it's great. Lots of women feel great for a few months after surgery. You have said this a number of times. What if it isn't still great in two years time? What will you do then?

Louise

I knwo people personally who have had surgery (Family people and friends of my mothers) And even they have said it was a waste of time and did nothing to help their symptoms...

If all the friends my mother knows who had this surgery told her anything good - My mother would have also had this surgery. But unfortunately all they said was bad things hence my mother deciding that the prolapse itself was less of a pain that any opertation to fix anything 'down there'

But - Also when I found my prolapse initially I put on my own website and on a Mothers website a post about it and not one person had anything positive to say. So it is not just what I read on 'certain' websites that people go to after they have a problem.

Unfortunately I also had a long telephone conversation with my own Gynae and he was also of the mind that even at the stage of prolapse that my mother is at. If you do not want repeat surgeries then don't start it - Especially not when young!

My own GP said to me when she said 'You have a prolapse' she replied 'We dont operate on this now' So I am assuming that unless your prolapse is at the stage in the Uk where the doctor thinks that the surgery would actually be warranted (Mine was a stage 2 and exiting) They no longer just reccomend surgery. Which is a good thing:-)

Alot of Doctors accross the world are governed by the operations paying them a helluva lotta money. I am not saying they offer surgery to make money. But I feel it would be a factor as if they put everyone offa surgery - Their pay would be negligible! My mothers Gynae has offered her surgery many times, but he always adds on the end 'But you are not open to that are you'

Next time I take my mother to see him - I'm gonna be sporting a cool T short I have...

I wanna get one made up saying 'I am a Whole Woman - Nothing added - Nothing taken away' lolllllll

I think if you google the word Prolapse you wanna know more about it and you hafta really search to find anything bar scary pictures and very scary words... I think it is good that this site is here to show prolapse is NOT the end of the world and does not mean you hafta jump under the knife...

It would be handy if we could see a post op report from doctors saying the TRUE percentage of their patients who have problems and how long after surgery. But I fear if they told us that - We might just know more than they want us to.

Studies can be managed to show a different image than they would if they were 100% accurate - That happens alot of the time :-(

But - I am still kinda irked by the women who tell that all is fabulous post surgery - Forgetting that all is NOT actually as they say. Especially on sites that tell us how all Will be well post op - When if you read between the lines (or in their siggys) you are slapped in the face by the fact thatall is not as it seems.

If surgery was fab and was a one-sto-shop I think a helluva lot more of us woulda jumped on to the table.

Luckily I know alot of very 'blabby' women. I would rather be faced with truth than a false sense of all is ok...

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

Hey I know that all fo you can't not stand the fact that surgery does work..Bu hey for me it worked...I feel so much better...Hey 15 years down the road...Who knows ...But for now i don't have to push my bladder out of the way to wipe my butt...Sorry folks the surgery does work..Sorry to burst your bubble..

I have no idea what will happen in 2 years nor what I will do..But for now my quality of life is so much better..I lived with my problem for 12 years..Mine was so bad there is no way any kind of yoga or any other exercise could have helped..I have seen the pics on the internet of how bad this condition can get..just google them yourself..When I saw those I knew I was doing the right thing.

Dear Angelkay,

While I, and I am sure everyone else is happy that you are so happy after your surgery, the point is that as Sue said this forum is for women who are not choosing surgery. We are not pushing that view on to others who do choose surgery, we are simply choosing a different path that makes us happier.

You might receive more encouraging responses on a forum with others who have also chosen surgery. It is not that I don't want surgery to work, rather that I would want to be pretty sure that it would work for my life time, and would not result in more surgeries later. :)

Take care.

To add to UK Mommy, I would say that I wouldn't even mind a surgery every ten years if I was really really bad. Quite frankly, If I had a stage 4 bladder, I would probably look into what they could do.

But for those of us who are struggling with 2-3s, the surgery seems to cause more problems than it's worth. Do I really want to face incontinence now or even in ten years because I chose surgery? Do I really want to know that I may never have sex again that isn't painful? Do I want to know that the whole thing could actually worsen because of surgery? Probably not.

When we talk about the aging process, there are things that we can do that respect the body, and there are things we do that hurt our bodies.

Eating the right balance of food for OUR body makes sense. So does enough exercise that we feel GOOD. Getting plenty of rest, and staying actively involved in life will help make us feel a part of a society that is quickly going to younger women. Taking care that we are not talked into things by doctors and well wishers who do not really appreciate where WE are right NOW.

Sometimes we do things that are not good for us like Smoking. Smoking ages the face, the heart, the circulatory system and the lungs.

Soda drinking ages the internal organs, makes us fat, and can lead us into Type II diabetes. Diet soda increases the desire for sweets, ruins teeth, and changes the palate so that we have trouble eating things that are not sweet like vegetables and good bread.

Lack of exercise decreases muscle tone and volume and flexibility and contributes to the kind of posture that says, "old." Lack of exercise makes us susceptible to colds, flu, and other "catchable" diseases.

Seems to me that surgeries to amend the natural process of aging are fraught with too many side effects simply because re-creating a youth that no longer exists must, at some stage, be counter productive. I'm not 25 any longer. Inside I am 25; outside I'm pushing 60. I can still out work my younger teachers, I can still out run most of my kids, but I am not 24.

The doctor my husband goes to, who is an idiot, does Botox injections. I can't imagine growing old with a paralyzed Phyllis Diller face. MMMMMM.

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

"Hey I know that all fo you can't not stand the fact that surgery does work.."

Don't try to say that we don't want people who have surgery to have successful outcomes. The members of this forum are not evil people. If one surgery had a 96% chance for permanent cure, as does say, having your gallbladder out, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The FACTS are that it does not. You have a 50/50 shot at never needing another surgery again for your pelvic area. I hope you're in the 50 that doesn't. Don't insult me again by implying I wish evil upon you.

Hey I was not insulting you please...i was not implying that you wish evil come on we are grown women here aren't we..i am just excited about my experience and wanted to express that you don't have to live that way..maybe i don't need to be on this forum..Really I am not trying to be bitchy..My operation was a very simple procedure they went through my vagina and used mesh and just tacked the bladder back where it is supposed to be and did the same with my rectocyle..Now in 2 years if it coesn't hold I would go through it again..i felt like I was attacked on this website because I actually said that my surgery was great..not that yo wished ill will to me but that I am proof that surgery is not necessarily so bad..

If someone opts for surgery, I really do wish them the best.

I, and many other women here, opt out of surgery because we feel the RISKS of poor outcome do not outweigh the benefits of surgery while we can successsfully manage prolapse naturally.

I know there is proof that surgery "works" but its all in the definition. I don't want my vagina scarred and surgically altered if I can keep my bladder in place with posture.

I really am happy for you that your surgery was great, and its not that you're bursting any bubbles, but I'm really not that interested in surgery. that's not what drew me to this site.

If surgery is fine for the prolapse itself and doesnt leave you with any bladder or bwel problems...
So many people say that is has wrecked their sex life.

To be totally honest (TMI time) My sex life at this point in my life is the best its ever been - I am no way no how gonna ruin that for an Op I am not 100% about - lol......

(Looks over shoulder at him who aint looking - grins - he is watching Aristocats DVD with our daughter lolol - None the wiser and not getting all big headed lolololol) lol Decides to get him to read it...
He reads - Grins -lmao - He is for once at a loss for words - LMAOOOOOOO

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

If surgery is fine for the prolapse itself and doesnt leave you with any bladder or bwel problems...
So many people say that is has wrecked their sex life.

To be totally honest (TMI time) My sex life at this point in my life is the best its ever been - I am no way no how gonna ruin that for an Op I am not 100% about - lol......

Hey, I'm not going to type the same response, so I just pasted the above from Sue. Tanks Sue.

Funny how several women have commented on how good sex is since prolapse. More nerve endings exposed, perhaps? That could be really dangerous if you were 14!

I seem to remember reading somewhere a long time ago that women reach their sexual peak around the age of 35. Hmm, I'm 54 and never had it so good. There must be something wrong with me. Perhaps I should run and ask the good doctor to fix me. LOLOL

Cheers

Louise

a couple of things to try:
1. don't let yourself get constipated.... this will cause more damage.
2. don't push or bear down at all.... when going to the bathroom or lifting things (nothing over 8 pounds)
3. buy Christine's book and follow the posture guidelines
4. keep doing kegel exercies
5. kegel exercies combined with yoga poses will do wonders (i've been assured this works, esp. if your babies are young 6. start learning some basic yoga poses.... downward dog, shoulder stand, and supported head stand against a wall will help keep your uterus where it should be
good luck!

I find it rather puzzling that you would write these guidelines when you have not found stabilization yourself. Please allow me to reframe them.

1. A high quality diet is a key component of living well with prolapse.

2. Pushing with a bowel movement will not negatively effect prolapse providing your hips are lifted off the toilet seat.

3. Natural female posture is the core of our pelvic organ support system.

4. Concentrated pelvic wall contractions are fine to do, as long as they are done with your pelvis in the nutated position.

5. Yogic-type pelvic locks are fine to do as long as your pelvis is in the nutated position.

6. Inverted poses have little effect on prolapse. If this were not the case, women would have begun having results from Iyengar's classic "poses for prolapsed uterus" decades ago.

Christine

Christine:
What do you mean by nutated position? I looked it up in your book (1st edition) and did not find a reference. Thank you.

you want your pelvis tipped forward, in PT language we call it an anterior pelvic tilt, but is also refered to as nutation.
put your hands on your hips so that your thumbs are wrapped around the back and your fingers in the front. your fingers will probably be on a bony prominence (the anterior superior iliac spine, or ASIS for short. this is the top/front part of your pelvic bones.
now tip your pelvis so that the ASIS (where your fingers are) is lower than the back part (where your thumbs were resting).
by tipping your pelvis this way, the pubic arch (bottom part of the pelvic bones) is no longer sitting in front of your bladder, vagina, etc, but under it all forming a true pelvic floor.
hth

I'm mnot sure if it's the prolapse making it better or the fact my partner is interested in ME. And I met him when i was (Ummmmm) 33 I think... Whearas previous partners haven't been lolol.

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg