New Problem

Body: 

Hi,Christine!

I was diagnosed with cystocele in '04. Fortunately, found your book online at that time, purchased it, and read it with great optimism. Would suggest to everyone that they purchase a copy - invaluable information and suggestions. Have been following advice and was doing wonderfully - until recently. Haven't been able to use a pessary because of sciatica pressure problems - but found a tampon worked well - and Gyn prescribed low-dose estrogen vaginal tablets used 2/week which seemed to help plump up tissues (I'm 64 and postmenopausal), and I did kegels. And, actually, I got to the point that I didn't really need the tampon to be comfortable (although, in retrospect, probably should have used one for support purposes).

Because of a very stressful year during which I lifted heavier things than I should have, and following a bout of respiratory flu with 2 weeks of coughing, suddenly I now have a stage 3 (out of 4) cystocele.

Specialist Gyn wants to do a complete abdominal hysterectomy. Said she would tighten the bladder at the same time to bring it back to normal position. Seriously have been considering surgery but know what your book says and just can't get myself to that point but don't know what to do. Am going to try a pessary again, along with pelvic floor physical therapy to try to eliminate the pain I get in my side when wearing the pessary. Tried the tampon again, but it dries too much to change it often during the day and lubricating with KY jelly makes it slide out (although it would work otherwise). I am beside myself with anxiety about surgery (I also have W-P-W, an electrical ventricular Heart problem).

Can you please reply with information about a stage 3 cystocele and any other recommedations that may not be in your book?

well I'm not christine but if you like the support from a tampon why not try a sea sponge or a diva cup?
I know this sounds crazy but give yourself a little more time to recover from your cough....I had some wicked puking a while ago that made things worse and they took a long time to get all the way back to baseline.
Did you know there is a new book with something called fire breathing in it? Cystoceles respond very well to the breathing.
Why would she want to remove your uterus???

Hi Bridi,

I second Alemama’s recommendation about the new book. There is a lot of additional information about body mechanics that you may find useful.

It’s interesting that many people (and doctors) conceptualize the “plumping up” of pelvic tissues to have a salutatory effect on prolapse. I feel quite the opposite, that natural shrinkage works in our favor as we age. I was given personal insight into this with a recent “doozy” of a period – the first one in a year! I spent the full month beforehand in great discomfort as my swollen uterus became more heavy and prolapsed. Be careful with the estrogen…it’s not comforting to know that it has been shown to both cause and worsen urinary incontinence.

Your doctor used a very poor choice of words/concepts in telling you she could “tighten” your bladder and “bring it back to normal position.” There are only surgeries that tighten/barricade the vaginal wall in an attempt to push the bladder back. Virtually all women are advised to concurrently undergo a suburethral sling implant because changing the vaginal wall changes the urinary continence system. It is also a fact that with or without surgical support at the top of your vagina, you will most likely develop a post-operative cystocele. Subsequent problematic rectocele is also very common. At that point, stabilization becomes extremely difficult.

I have to wonder if you have a good grasp of the posture. The book also has an exercise program aimed at core strengthening all of which should positively affect your sciatica as well as your prolapse. This “work” shouldn’t be difficult or stressful.

The tampon thing sounds very uncomfortable for the long term. When things got really bad for me I dosed myself well with organic salve and wore a home made external support garment.

It is kind of a shock to come to a place of realization that we are the only ones who can positively affect our own condition. We are so used to the idea of problems being fixed for us. However, if we are willing to give that control away we must be prepared for the consequences.

So hope you can bring yourself back to baseline.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Thank you, Christine! (and thank you, Alemama!)

Is the fire breathing technique in a "new" book that you published since I purchased the original? I will check with the book store today or on your site for ordering books. And you are correct about the posture. I reread the book yesterday and realized that I wasn't utilizing the proper positions - so I changed my posture. A question - what should posture be when sitting for a long time at an event when you are sitting on folding chairs? We attended a wedding this morning, and I was trying to keep my chin tucked slightly down and was trying to keep my spine from curving into a "C" in that chair - but I'm not certain that I was sitting correctly.

Also, at my last regular yearly Gyn check, my Doctor (not the surgeon) checked inside my uterus and measured the lining and prescribed two months of progesterone to cause me to have two periods (even though I haven't had one in 13 yrs.) to slough off the lining that was building up from the estrogen usage. I took the pills for one month - was miserable and heavy - and didn't have a period. In the meantime, I saw the surgeon and I stopped taking the progesterone. Perhaps the built-up lining of the uterus from the estrogen and the taking of the progesterone is contributing to the changes. I think I have a definite problem as to what to do now since I have that build-up in the uterus. I'm sure that I'll be told to use the progesterone to eliminate the lining.

And, yes, the tampon is working again - but is uncomfortable and difficult to manage on a day-to-day basis. What is organic salve? And doesn't a support garment push down on the uterus? Whenever I wore a "control" pantyhose, I found that the cystocele seemed to be worse. I'm going to try a pessary again and, hopefully, I will be able to use it this time with some help from a pelvic floor therapist for the sciatica (she was recommended by the surgeon).

One more question - Will not using anything at all to keep the uterus in place hasten an advance? There are times when I can be comfortable without using anything, but I certainly don't want to create any advance in this problem.

Thank you so much for your reply. I have no mother or sisters (mother died when I was 24 and I'm an only child), or inlaws, etc., with whom to discuss prolapse (my husband is supportive but can't help with this) - and the friend that I talked with was really pushing me to have surgery. You can't imagine what a relief and blessing this site is for support when there's no other place in your life in which to turn.

You give me hope! and I truly need it right now.

Dear Bridi,

Yes, the second edition of STWW is really like a whole new book. Both the theories behind and treatments for prolapse are much further developed in this new edition. You can either buy it now in pre-publication form (go to www.savingthewholewoman.com) or wait 2-3 weeks for the real thing. In either case, the store is at www.wholewomancenter.com/store.

With this work we sit as much of the time as possible using the strength of our own spine. In a folding chair this would mean sitting up a bit further toward the front of the chair while keeping the upper body posture. You can find descriptions of the posture in the FAQ section on the home page.

I do not know how to respond regarding the HRT. Have you read the Women’s Health Initiative? (www.whi.org) It is a known fact that unopposed exogenous estrogen can be very risky. These drugs do not help prolapse in any way and they are dangerous.

I do know the uterus has the ability to purge itself naturally, but have no information about how to go about making that happen.

We will be selling the 100% certified organic salves I had developed for a number of pelvic conditions I deal with. I guess if I was going to wear this hat the Cosmic Powers were going to make sure I experienced the lion’s share of pelvic disorders! Anyway, you will be able to find them here within the next 10 days and they are truly wonderful.

Of the two external support garments on the market the V2 supporter (google V2) is the best design, in my opinion. The one with the waistband is decidedly unanatomic and uncomfortable.

I cannot say one way or another if your uterus will continue to prolapse, but the odds are that it probably will. There is what surgeons call a “fascial plane” behind the uterus that facilitates its sliding down. Some women have these “sliding” type prolapses and some do not because their front and back vaginal walls have moved in to prevent such an occurrence.

It seems many of our conditions “advance”, but only to a point of stabilization we can live well with. I do have a client coming to the Center next month who seems to have an ever-worsening UP. It will be interesting to see what can be done in her case. Thus far, I have held the belief that the worst “natural” prolapse is better than the best post-gold standard surgery. This is only true, however, if a woman is really willing to work physically, emotionally, and environmentally to help her condition.

We are very happy that you have joined us, Bridi, and I so hope all goes well with you. The only thing that remains missing from our arsenal is a really good pessary. I have imagined the “perfect” one, but it would be a nightmare to try to bring it to market. I bought a chunk of beeswax the other day thinking I would carve it into that ancient form of the device as someone here once suggested. There are lots of ideas!

Heartfully,

Christine

Hello, Christine!

Thought a lot about the HRT and have decided not to use it anymore. My Dr. originally told me that extensive studies had not been done concerning effectiveness but that it might be worth trying (although I did have some concerns because my mother died with breast cancer - but he said it was such low dose, that that shouldn't be a problem); but when I mentioned to the surgeon that I was using low-dose Vagifem inserts twice weekly, she reinforced that studies were scarce and inclusive and I got the feeling that she didn't really endorse using it (She is on the staff of the Dr. who is the head of the Ob/Gyn department at a major teaching Hospital in Cleveland - so I understand that she is not in a position to outright contradict her boss). I also have done some research about cystocele on the web and one of the sources mentioned that the HRT doesn't help but can compound problems. And I will read the Women's Health Initiative. But I can say that I've already decided to discontinue HRT use.

I will order the new book, and will check the V2 support. And I have an appt. tomorrow AM to cancel the tentative surgery and be fitted with a pessary. As I mentioned, I'm going to try the vaginal floor phy. therapy. I decided that I will use the pessary on the days on which I can use it without pain (I had no problem inserting or taking out the pessary daily when I tried it originally) - and I'll use a tampon on the other days so that I can control and remove it more easily on the days when there is pain.

The one thing that helped me greatly was the suggestion by the surgeon that I use A&D ointment for chafing in the exterior vaginal area. I was sooo uncomfortable before she told me. But it works great! - especially on those days when you need to sit for long periods of time. Just a little A&D alleviates symptoms of burning/hurting.

We attended the reception last evening for the wedding we attended earlier in the day. The father of the bride is a gastroenterologist and a friend - and I told him about the surgery because I wanted to have a colonoscopy prior to surgery. He mentioned last evening (rather strange at a wedding!) that my tests had come back negative (CT scan of the lower rt. quadrant because of the rt. quadrant sciatica pain, and a pelvis scan because of some pulsing I had last year in my abdomen, to be sure there was no aneurysm) and that we could proceed with the colonoscopy - and when I told him that the surgeon wanted to do a complete abdominal surgery with some bladder work and that I'm not going to do the surgery at this time, his quote was: "As we say, the best surgery for this is no surgery." Very interesting!!

I had this problem under control with the help of your book for the past 3 years since it was diagnosed - and I will work as hard as I can to bring it under control again. I've been doing a lot of web-browsing - and haven't found any literature that says a hysterectomy is a surgery that solves the problem without creating more problems (sometimes more severe) than it supposedly solves. I know there are many, many more serious and severe medical problems in this world, so I've decided to try to keep this prolapse in perspective. I've started reading some of the comments by other members and have decided to keep in mind the one comment that says "everything" begins to sag in our bodies as we age. Amen!!

Again, thank you so much for your knowledge and support. You can't imagine what a difference it is making for me in getting me back to sanity. Bridi

It’s always so good to hear a woman take control of her condition! You sound strong and determined and I have no doubt you will prevail! Just beware of petroleum based products with unregulated ingredients like industrial cod liver oil. Nothing but the best for Whole Women!! :-)

Oh, my gosh! I just finished reading a lot of the comments from other users - can't believe how many young women with new babies and young children have this problem(s). The problem of prolapse must be the best-kept women's secret in the world! Why aren't women educated early in their lives about the ways that prolapse could possibly be avoided (heavy-lifting, straining for bowel movements, etc.) and be instructed to do Kegels and exercies to keep their pelvic floors strong throughout their lives? I realize that the surgical aspect information is fairly controlled by the medical profession - but at least some of the general information could be given out to young women when they first begin seeing a gynecologist for a Pap test, etc. I belong to several women's groups (with both young and older members), and would be more than happy to distribute brochures or other information if I had access to it just as I have distributed information on breast self-exams, heart health, etc. Do you know of any resource for obtaining info. for distribution? There must be so many women out there that are experiencing prolapse and have no knowledge of your work or your web site.

I visited your store site and ordered the new pre-publication book package and also the DVD and will be watching the mail for their arrival. I am a visual person and need to see diagrams re posture, etc., to fully understand the concepts. Am hoping there are photos of the various stages of cystocele. I feel that mine is slightly smaller since the last exam then when I was told it was a 3 out of 4. I know it changes constantly, but I'm no longer sitting on the bladder as I was a few months ago when it seemed to have worsened.

Also, am looking forward to purchasing your organic salve when it comes on your store site.

Was fitted with a pessary yesterday and was doing okay but had to take it out by the end of the day because it began pushing my bladder (cystocele) down and I had to urinate every 10 minutes (which wasn't a previous problem). Dr. did say that I may need a larger one but she wanted to start with the smaller size because of the sciatica pain I get and did say that it's a trial-and-error process until you find one that fits and is comfortable. So, we'll give it another try next week when I see her again.

Can you tell me what a sea sponge is? Is its origin the same as a regular sponge?

I also read the comments about the Kegel exerciser. I ordered one three years ago but never used it (it's still in its box in my drawer). It just seemed too complicated with the springs and for some reason I hesitated to use it.

I know I keep saying Thank You to you - but this was such a difficult year for me for many reasons (deaths, and many other problems too numerous to mention) - and I was getting so despressed since this prolapse advance(and I'm usually a very positive person who is the strong one for others) - and writing to you and reading all of the other members' comments and love and support for each other has just made such a difference in the short time since I found your site. I hope you know what a difference you are making in this world!! Gratefully, Bridi.

Hi Bridi

Welcome to the new world. You have been inundated by lots of new information and it will take a while to take it all in and assimmilate it into your life.

And welcome to Wholewoman. You have found a new group of friends who really do understand this part of your life. Yes, there are so many young women who are experiencing prolapse, and thankfully they are finding all this information which has been kept quiet for so long. Thank goodness and thank Christine, we now have this Forum and the main website www.wholewoman.com .

If you have a look at the Resources section of the website there is a press kit, a brochure and a bookmark which can be used for publicising this work. We are indeed at a new stage of prolapse and incontinence awareness in our communities all over the world, and this really does need to be brought out into the open 'in a wise-woman' fashion to bring it to the attention of all women so that unnecessary surgical intervention can be prevented, along with the potential for pain, misery and dependence on further surgery.

It is also important because we can pass this information on to our daughters, nieces and granddaughters who will be able to understand the damage that they can cause to their own bodies by doing things incorrectly. Really, a whole new approach needs to be taken to diet, exercise, posture, antenatal education, birth practices, postnatal practices etc from the time of first steps onwards.

There may be women out there who have had satisfactory results from surgery. I hope so, because there are literally millions of them! The fact remains that all surgical procedures change the way our bodies support these pelvic organs, which places artificial stresses on everything in there and sets up for further problems, previously not experienced, particularly further prolapse. Duh!

The fact also remains that so many of us have seemingly stopped further deterioration of our prolapses, and learnt to live with them. This is particularly important for young women who may have not so serious prolapses and incontinence because it means that they can be less vulnerable to the suggestions of scalpel crazy surgeons and can try Wholewoman techniques before assessing their own need for surgery. Of course there is no proof that Wholewoman techniques work in the long term. I for one am prepared to take that risk, as the risks of surgery are pretty horrific as far as I can see, and the benefits doubtful.

Christine is absolutely right. Taking responsibility yourself and thinking for yourself are the first steps in coming to grips with this. Have fun with your new discoveries! And keep calling back to the Forum so you can share your ideas and questions with us, and we can share yours too.

Cheers

Louise