I suggest a survey...

Submitted by babs on July 25, 2007 - 5:25pm
Body: 

Christine, if you are reading, i have a suggestion.
i see you now have 1469 members and rising each day. how about conducting some research on us. can i suggest you commission a survey for completion either by circular or online.
you could ask about
1 age group
2 parity
3 obstetric intervention
4 previous surgery
5 outcome
6 outcome after 1,5, 10 years etc
7 type of prolapse
8 symptomatic or not
9 whether responsive to the posture
10 whether responsive to fire breathing
11 any other feedback on what works
surely there is a wealth of information available to you.
bast wishes
babs

Lilly Anne

July 25, 2007 - 9:09pm

I like the idea of having a survey or a user profile but please keep in mind that not everyone on this site got their prolapse from delivering a baby. Some of us have just been constipated for years. Sorry to be so blunt, not having a good day.

- Lilly Anne

granolamom

July 25, 2007 - 9:19pm

sorry to hear you're having a hard day. hopefully tomorrow will be better.
{{hugs}}

Lilly Anne

July 25, 2007 - 9:54pm

Granolamom:

Thank you for the hug I really needed that. Sometimes it is very hard to be on this site and hear about everyone's wonderful birthing stories. I feel so isolated. I am here due to years of being constipated. I am still having trouble coming to terms with all this. For whatever reason it is really hitting me lately. I have been feeling symptomatic lately. I still freak out on the days when having a bm if I have to give a little push or medium push. I just don't feel normal. I still fear that I am making it worse. My diet is pretty near perfect. I take drugs that help. I also drink lots of water and have been juicing. I am practically the poster child for good nutrition. I really do think that I am mentally crippling myself with all this fear.

Thank you again for the hug, I really needed it.

- Lilly Anne

Beejay

July 26, 2007 - 2:37am

If you include 'type of prolapse' on the survey, does that just mean the type of prolapse as officially confirmed by a doctor, or does it also include self-diagnosis?

I just ask because the doc confirmed my cystocele/urethrocele. I also suspect a rectocele - but she examined me in the morning, and I don't get rectocele symptoms until in the evening. And I forgot to tell her, duh!

Beejay

babs

July 26, 2007 - 2:57am

sorry to have offended to you.

i do of couse realise that not all of us are here through childbirth.

parity can include zero!

i cant begin to understand what it must be like having prolapse without children. on my bad days i tell myself "it was worth it".

hey, but we are all in the same boat, and are here to support each other.

please, please accept my apologies for my insensitivity to the women here who have not suffered injury through childbirth.

blessings
babs

ps hope today is a better day for you :)

pps perhaps the survey should also query other habits, including
a history of constipation
b history of heavy lifting and gym work

(i sometimes wonder if the abuse i gave my body in the weights room and on my dad's farm in my teens and twenties played any role in my condition as well as the episiotomy and forceps)

howdidthishappen

July 26, 2007 - 5:20am

hey sweetie..

so sorry you are having a rough time with it right now. ugh. believe me, i understand...

and let me just say, i actually think my constipation issues are far more related to the rectocele than anything else. i really do. i mean, we are talking a life time of strainig and struggling with that so frankly, i would be VERY interested in hearing from other women on a survey about the correlation between chronic constipation and prolapse. lilly anne, i do not for one moment believe we are the only ones with chronic constipation that has led to rectoceles. no way.

(oh...i also have a thought about your constipation that i will post on the currant constipation thread...don't want to get off track here..)

xsusan

Lilly Anne

July 26, 2007 - 5:44am

Bab's, I feel that I owe you an apology. You started a really good thread and I completely changed its direction. Please accept my apology.

You did not offend me at all with your survey questions. I just wanted to point out that not all of us are here due to childbirth. It's hard for me, and I imagine others in the same boat.

Susan, I look forward to reading your post under constipation.

I am still half asleep and must get ready for work but I wanted to send along a quick response.

I will think about some survey questions and I will post them later this evening.

Thank you all for being so supportive. Hoping for a better day today.

- Lilly Anne

MeMyselfAndI

July 26, 2007 - 7:14am

1 age group

2 parity

3 obstetric intervention

4 previous surgery

5 outcome

6 outcome after 1,5, 10 years etc

7 type of prolapse

8 symptomatic or not

9 whether responsive to the posture

10 whether responsive to fire breathing

11 any other feedback on what works

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

babs

July 26, 2007 - 8:36am

hope this helps

Gravidity is defined as the number of times that a woman has been pregnant and parity is defined as the number of times that she has given birth to a fetus with a gestational age of 24 weeks or more, regardless of whether the child was born alive or was stillborn.

for me
1 33
2 4 with another miscarriage and d &c @11 weeks
3 on 1st delivery epidural, supplemented labour (drip), episiotomy, forceps, long, long and incoordinate labour
4 apart from the d&c, episiotomy, repairs of tears, no.
5 na
6 na
7 rectocele, uterine, cystocele briefly after no4
8 currently not
9 rectocele was not
10 tried it briefly after labour. how do yoga therapist's advice on breathing, and use it to wind everything up.
11 good posture as per christine's more recent descriptions, ie elongating the neck, shoulders back and down, tummy muscles long but taut; yoga done as per therapist instruction; probiotic drinks and less processed food
12 never had constipation save for maybe 2 bouts after air travel, until my rectcele came, and then problem was definitely mechanical rather than dietary in origin.
13 did do extensive gym work and heavy weight pushing when younger. suspect that this and lots of sit ups may not have helped, as my innards used to audibly squidge!

granolamom

July 26, 2007 - 10:04am

I think a survey is a useful way to collect and analyze data. but I think you'd first want to set up some sort of hypothesis, or guidelines of what you want to study, the more specific the better.
otherwise you run the risk of being inundated with information that can be distracting and hard to analyze.

just my thoughts

babs

July 26, 2007 - 11:35am

point taken

however i do think chrisitne has a valuable resource here at her disposal, ie all you dear ladies, and she could use us scientifically to test the what factors most commonly cause prolapse, and whether the holistic treatments advocated here are effective.

i think a percentage of the 1470 or so women surveyed might be more instructive than the occasional voice of those brave enough to post, and might add more weight to her work (not that i think it lacks weight, but a scientific study might help convince the medical community who regrettably continue to cause more harm than good).

other than making the suggestion i'll leave ww to take it forward if they wish.

anyway, hope you and your new wee boy are keeping well :)
babs

granolamom

July 26, 2007 - 1:32pm

I do think a survey's a good idea and agree completely that we are a valuable resource. there are just so many directions to go in. I do hope that at some point or another someone puts all of our stories to good use.

louiseds

July 26, 2007 - 9:19pm

I agree with Granolamom. What do we want to find out? Why do we want to find out?

Is it profiles of women with prolapse so we can see if there are any patterns?
Is it to do with what the Dr says, and what you know yourself, with the aim of coming up with better diagnosis methods?
Is it to do with what degree of prolapse you have and the level of discomfort, with the aim of quantifying level of suffering vs degree of prolapse?
Is it degree of satisfaction with Wholewoman methods, with the aim of monitoring it periodically?

There are a million possible surveys. I think it needs to be very short and narrow in scope, but asks enough questions to generate enough meaningful data to draw conclusions that can be put to some use.

babs

July 27, 2007 - 3:27am

you ask a perfectly legitimate question.

i think there are indeed a million purposes for a survey, and the ultimate aim of it would be determined by whoever in ww settled the questions.

if i were conducting the research i guess i would want to test the success of the ww methods against a whole lot of different variables.

i would want to know if the degree of success is affected by :-

the type of prolapse (ie are some 'celes more receptive to the postural work than others?)

the age of the woman, menopausal or not

the degree of previous perineal trauma through childbirth

whether women with fewer children improve more than women with a large number

previous fitness and history (gym, constipation)

degree of prolapse, are smaller prolapses more receptive to the work than more severe ones?

what can women expect? stabilisation or improvement (ie reversal)? and if so what factors influence reversal.

christine has described this as a work in progress. if that is so then feedback from her ladies (the majority of whom are presumably trying to live well with prolapse) would surely be useful in determining how the work develops from here. if there are folk for whom it is not working or who are only seeing limited benefits, (and it may be there are none :) ) surely it would be useful to try and identify why?

whole woman make bold claims about stability and reversal. i have certainly learned to live well with prolapse so far (although the posture honestly didn't help my rectocele, perhaps because of the extent of perineal damage i have suffered, whereas the cystocele was much easier dealt with.) surely there is nothing to fear and everything to gain from testing those claims.
best wishes
babs

louiseds

July 27, 2007 - 4:31am

Absolutely right Babs. There are so many variables.

We all need to maintain our curiosity, and keep trying different things, and report our successes, no matter how wierd they may seem. I am sure there are some amazing anecdotal findings from all sorts of people on the Forum. Just the sort of things that somebody will have a look at one day and mutter, "I wonder if...", then do some serious research.

I just wish there was a simple way to document all the things we have discovered in our rambling, clunky conversations here. When you do a survey you automatically cull out anything that you haven't purposely asked about, which is such a pity.

Cheers

Louise

babs

July 27, 2007 - 4:51am

was thinking further about this in the shower.

i from time to time wonder are there other factors in prolapse too.
by way of example, a number of women have referred to having fibromyalgia, and sue has mentioned recently her ms. i had (and still have) pcos, but have never needed fertlity treatment (contrary to the drs bleak assessments!)

there are a lot of "what ifs" out there, as yet unexplored, and all along the medical profession thinks it has it sussed.

a survey might also show that the women who complain of no improvement have not implemented posture or lifestyle changes (still hoping for a magic wand!) or it might show how often ww exercises have to be done for to be effective, or which techniques are most effective for which 'cele.

i have also been thinking alot about why i have found yoga to be so beneficial (even the positions that christine opposes) and the mysterious intra abdominal pressures.

i think the key to why i am finding these beneficial is because of the way i am breathing and pulling my pelvic floor upwards into a lock. your description of them as being diagonal fits with how i feel them pulling diagonally upwards on each successive outbreath, and in so doing my tailbone is lifting, and not tucking under (subtle but important distinction).

whats my point? well, maybe its just that we are singing from the same hymn sheet after all, just different verses. maybe if we pull together all the verses we can develop the women's yoga which will help address all the celes!

i dont know how if at all ww should take the survey thing forward. it needs to be well thought out and planned to be of benefit. but maybe, just maybe, we might hit on an as yet unexplored breakthrough.

AnneKane

July 27, 2007 - 10:33pm

Hi

i was just on a great site for plantar fasciitis / heel spurs(heelspurs.com)this morning and they had a great survey and i was just thinking how it would be wonderfull if whole woman had a survey too... perhaps the heel spur's survey layout could be usefull in some regards as a model...

It is similar in term's of being a problem that has many possible causes, is very difficult to resolve and pple take a wide variety of approaches to it lifelestyle diet excercise.. it involves ligaments and connective tissue but perhaps affects daily living in a more significant way overall.. (when pple cannot walk)..

Anyway just a thought.. I'd love a survey thought!

x
Anne-helen

louiseds

July 28, 2007 - 1:15am

Hi Anne-Helen

Would you mind posting the URL please. It is always interesting to see how other parallel organisatons survey, and what they ask. If not comfortable about posting it, perhaps you could email it to me instead.

Cheers

Louise

AnneKane

August 3, 2007 - 11:07pm

hi

forgive my luddite way's but what' an url.. it's found at heelspurs.com (with an "s"), if that's any help

Best wishes

Anne-helen

louiseds

August 5, 2007 - 8:00am

Hi Anne-helen

URL is another name for the website address that you type into the address bar of your browser.

Cheers

Louise

louiseds

August 10, 2007 - 3:48am

At Babs' suggestion, we could also add a question about the effect of menopause on degree of prolapses. I have posted it here so we can keep all the survey stuff under one topic (not to steal your thunder Babs!)

Cheers
Louise