cystocele/rectocele

hey pentictonbc,
I would be scared too! Christine has written a book that describes non surgical management of prolapse and it sounds like it isn't too late for you to get the book and do a little more research. In the recent past there was a posting from a woman who had surgery and was very unhappy about it and her recovery- you might try the search engine to find that one.
The book talks about the different types of surgery and success rates as well.
If you have any questions ask away.

Hi Pentictonbc and welcome to the forum.

I suggest you start with Christine's blog entries re surgery - scroll down and you'll find them on the lower left of your screen. I also recommend that you read the book (go to wholewomancenter.com/store to order) if you are seriously contemplating surgery. You will find many threads on the forum that might be of interest by women with cystocele and rectocele who have chosen non-surgical management of their conditions - many encouraging stories.

I wish you well,

Jean

Hi Pentictonbc

Welcome, and I think you are right to be scared.

The problem with any of the surgical techniques is that they do not mimic the body's natural structure, instead tethering organs with fixed supports so the organs can no longer naturally assume a position where they can move freely within the pelvis, kind of loosely connected bags of jelly which have a general position in relation to each other but can still move about. When organs prolapse it means that some of the natural support has been damaged so the range of movement is greater than it normally is.

When you have surgery the organs are literally suspended, which leave uneven pressures on the supports, and vacuum areas which contribute to other bits and pieces falling down into the space left. Voila, more prolapse. Also the uneven pressures can cause a lot of pain of longterm duration, sexual difficulties and pain, difficulty in urinating, etc. Statistics show that many women who have that first lot of surgery need surgery periodically for life, each time getting more scar tissue and more damage as a result of all the cutting. It can literally kill enjoyment of sex, and can kill loving relationships.

We are generally taught to stand tall with our tummies pulled in and our butt tucked under. In natural female posture as exhibited by women who have not been exposed to Western civilisation the lower belly is allowed to relax, leaving room for the pelvic organs to move forward, so they are over the pubic bone, and not the pelvic floor muscles. In addition, the breasts and chest are carried high which kind of makes the butt more prominent. This tilts the pelvic floor to diagonal, rather than horizontal (as we see it in diagrams), and gives the pelvic organs a little slope they can slide down, onto the pubic bone. This way prolapsed organs are kept forward and supported by bone, and don't try to 'escape' as much.

You see, pelvic organ prolapse which contributes to urinary incontinence is largely a postural problem. Fix the posture and your prolapse problems will probably decrease considerably, and you may not need this body changing surgery at all. It may also help to protect your pelvic organ supports from further damage.

If you find that Wholewoman techniques don't work (and that also includes atention to diet, exercise, clothing design etc) you can always go and have surgery, but once you have surgery your body has been changed forever. There is no going back, and it is so sad to read posts on this Forum from women who have had surgery and the unintended results in pain and further prolapse have been tragic, even though the bladder is higher as expected, and the incontinence has been stopped!

Please, please put off your surgery for a little while, do all your research and think very carefully before embarking on this surgical path. Visit www.wholewoman.com and see what you can do, all by yourself. No pain, no scarring in your belly or your vagina, no recuperation. It is a whole different way of looking after your body.

Cheers

Louise

Welcome

Everything Louise said below is true... I know it will be scary to ask for you to hold off on the operation but remember once the op is done there is no turning back the clock.

If you can put it off for a few months then you can give yourself time to read up on it's good and bad points...

Nearly all of us women here have prolapses (I have all 3) And we have mostly found relief through just changing our posture.

I would urge you to try that before you go down a road where there is no turning or or escaping from.

Please take time to think, read and learn about this procedure before you go for it.

I can say this as I have a mesh thing inside of me for hernia and I know - Once it is inthere scar tissue grows through it and removing it afterwards is just not done. So as there is no going back - Think VERY carefully before taking this step.

I had to have my hernia fixed - It was the second time it had come and I nearlly died of a strangulated hernia first time round. But even knowing that I still do not like the thought of having mesh inside of me.

Good luck - Please return and tell us what is happening.

Oh and please do not just think we are putting down surgery because we are anti sugery! Please read posts here from women who have had the surgery. One who had it when she woke up from a different operation and found she was altered inside - Which she did not ask for or expact at all.

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

If that is what you feel - Then nothing we will say will dissuade you.

Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

it looks like two of you are going for surgery. i am sure this isn't an easy decision. i am postpartum so i don't even have to deal with that sort of decision right now because they need you to wait for your body to heal many months. however i have definitely pondered the issue when i have a particularly bad day. if your decision is final, please keep us posted regarding how you are doing. many of us would like to know, as well as be able to be there for you during the recovery. can you also give us an idea of your age, and how you may have gotten the cystoele/rectocele if you know. thinking about ya both. j

A couple of days ago I noticed a bulge from my vagina during my shower (I had no indications there was a problem before now!) After researching multiple medical guides, I have no doubt it is rectocele. I meet many of the 'causes & symtoms' but can't seem to find much info on my personal questions...such as, will it make things worse to continue having sex or should I consult a doctor now? I am all for the idea of avoiding surgery if possible, but the FAQ here said something to the fact that the posture and exercises wouldn't work if I've already had a hysterectomy, which I have. This is my first attempt at a forum, so obviously I'm quite the scared newbee. If anyone has any advice or insight to steer me in the right direction I would certainly appreciate your input. Thanks and good luck to all of you!

dfchar,
Everyone is different...so mostly you kind of go with how you are and how you feel. DX isn't some big deal. Often if it isn't that pronounced the Dr won't even think you have it!
Sex is all up to you. I do not have any issues at all but my husband and I have always been pretty tame lovers physically...no one is swinging from the chandeliers...ha! It is every bit as exciting as anything I have heard described but we have always been gentle with each other and with prolapse I personally think that is even more important --physically and emotionally.
You just need to know if a certain position is painful there might be a reason and to try another--that holds true for everyone though--prolapse or not right?!
Even Christine does not say the posture will "not" work if you are hysterectomized. It is going to be an individual thing and the posture will make you much more aware of yourself as you walk and sit etc.
Pulling your body into the posture will help you period--it is just better posture for anyone female.
With rectocele the most important factor is keeping the bowels moving and light and never straining to pass a BM. Everyone is fairly different in finding that ability...
Someone suggested turning gently to the right while going--EXCELLENT advice and I use that often and touching the floor with my hands--moving the rest of my body...thinks get kinked and often just changing my position helps me to go when it seems things are not moving...often I will empty the bladder and then finally be able to go the other--vice versa...it is just going to take you time to figure out your way...
I panic when I miss a day of no BM...and it has been about 8 months for me dealing with prolapse--so I change the diet etc. It is always going to be a daily thinking about thing and it is distressful...but it is what it is...

Take good care of you!

the other post had very important info. however having been involved in healthcare much of my life i do think diagnosis is important. it may not change how you will deal with a rectocele, but you must confirm that is what it is. you must rule out the possiblitly of other diagnoses...ie. tumors etc that could cause the appearance of a rectocele. i am not saying this to frighten you, but early diagnosis is very important with many illnesses. so please go see a specialist and then you can move on from there and follow this forum if it is in fact the rectocele.

I guess I was talking about after the DX--not to the fact that you don't need one--to rule out any other issue! I guess that wasn't clear...I just mean not to look toward the Dr to give you very much advice or even information. It is extremely RARE that a Dr has any information that is helpful at all--that is why this forum is VITAL!
Many of us had rectocele or cystocele symptoms for YEARS and the Dr never picked up on it at all or even mentioned prolapse EVER ...

Many of us could have either prevented our prolapses or lessened their severity if we had known what caused them or that it even existed...

i told my 73 year old mom about my postpartum cystocele. she said "oh, i think i have something like that too." she thinks she has a slight uteran prolapse that her OBGYN never mentions upon her doctor visits. i asked her how long she thinks she has had it...and she said maybe years...but it never bothered her too much so she never did anything about it. i found that interesting, and actually not surprising. my moms generation most likely wouldn't say anything...so the doc doesn't bother. very annoying.

Thanks for the replies! jsnyc-I have an appt w/my obgyn but it's not until October...was hoping to wait 'til then unless the condition worsens or if someone thinks I should go in ASAP.? The bulge receeds considerably when my bowels are completely empty so I'm heavy on the water & fiber these days! I've been experiencing constipation problems for the last couple of years - even went in for a rectal exam last year, but the doc didn't find anything wrong...changing my diet helped, but I never completely quit having problems with it. Also have begun working on my posture...I know improvement will take time, but this thing didn't get this way overnight either, did it!? I also appreciate the 'excellent' advice from you, Therese. At this point I'm all about trying anything to avoid surgery! Thanks again ladies for taking time for my concerns - wish I knew more so I could return the favor to the others here. BTW - I will welcome any more comments or suggestions. Peace,Love & Hugs, Char

personally i would go to the doc sooner. just to make sure. you sound like you are defintely in touch with your body and motivated to be well..which is great! but why not go early just to be sure, because maybe they have other recommendations for you. i am doing biofeedback/stimulation for my pelvic floor and i swear it helps my cystocele. so maybe there is something you can do also, sooner than later. just my thought. j

Hey Therese, what does DX mean??

Louise

dx = diagnosis

Hi Gudch1

Saying "I have never been more scared" tells me that your heart is not agreeing with your decision. I have tasted being really scared, and it made me stop and carefully re-examine my options before continuing on the path. Fear is a very useful emotion for stopping us in our tracks and telling us to re-assess the next step in any process.

Maybe there is another way? See FAQ's on www.wholewoman.com for a start.

Is somebody you trust pressuring you?

On the other hand, fear is also quite a normal response when one has just made a big decision. Do you need a little more time to decide whether surgery is really a good idea? Take it. Prolapse is not life-threatening.

If I was having a surgical procedure for anything I would not like to be going into it in a state of fear. I think there are more fun ways of getting an andrenalin hit. ;-) It's hard enough the day you go in, let alone for weeks beforehand.

Cheers

Louise

jsnyc - I was wondering if you or anyone can give me some questions/concerns that need to be discussed with my Dr about this condition (should that be what I have) when I go in? I would like to take care of it naturally as much as possible and don't know if my obgyn Dr will suggest anything along this line unless I ask about it. Such as, what exactly is the 'biofeedback/stimulation' you're doing and where did you learn about it? I'd like to be familiar with what I'm talking about, so can anyone suggest some websites or subjects I can research before I go in? btw - WATER and FIBER are now two of my best friends! I'm already feeling better! Funny how just talking with someone about this has helped my mental heath...Thanks again for your guidance. PL&H, Char

well, i live in NYC and my uro/gyn is at a major teaching hospital here. he is a surgeon and referred me to a woman in their office who specializes in the biofeedback/stim of the pelvic floor. basically they put a probe in the vagina, and with a computer you can see how well you do kegal exercises. she also does something with the probe that she can stimulate the pelvic floor muscles. it is actually pretty interesting. due to my postpartum damage (ie. forceps/episiotomy), i could barely do a kegal, had incontinance and could not stop the flow of urine once it started. now 4 weeks later i can stop the flow, do a stronger kegal and am not incontinent, although i still wear a pad for some drippage. my cystocele is still there, but some days better than others. so i am not sure whether you live in or near a major city, but this must be available somewhere. i was told it helps the whole pelvic floor, so should help rectocele. can't say it has helped me there yet...still have inabililty to control my flatulence!!!! but hopeful inbetween my bad days.