why I made the choice to avoid surgery

i have always enjoyed your positive outlook. i am curious...my cystocele is stage 2, now 4 months postpartum. some days are better than others and i am looking forward to more better days. i don't know if you or someone else has an answer to my question...i am wondering for all of us on this site that are postpartum. no matter how much healing takes place over the days, months and years...are we destined for our prolapses to get worse when we hit menopause?

I can't answer as to menopause, because I'm not there yet, however, I've been on this site for almost 2 years. I came here 7 mos. post partum after the birth of my 3rd child (now almost 2 and a half), scared out of my mind. Never before had I felt so out of control. Dont' feel that way at all now, except perhaps occasionally. Having these symptoms doesn't restrict my life in any way. I read everything I could, use the posture, do Christine's ballet workout from her new book a few times a week (it really helps), use the kegelmaster, a vaginal exerciser, eat well. I've done accupuncture, chinese herbs, alexander technique, chiropractic. In the first year, I tried as much as I could. Was afraid I' never be able to run with my kids again -- I do, without a thought and play soccer, too. So, I can say that it has gotten better, much better. I also had a stage 2 cystocele. Don't know what it is now. Don't really care, as long as I feel good and healthy. My suspicion is that I will be able to live well with it for the rest of my life, which I hope is good and long and that I'll live to see my kids grow up, have kids, and have grandkids!

Healing is there for you.

Marie

what is going to happen when you go through menopause. The standard advice is that everything will get worse as you lose estrogen and tissues lose their elasticity. That is true, but also the uterus and tissues kind of shrink up a bit. I am in the middle of menopause right now and I can tell both are happening. The cystocele is a little worse but the uterus seems to be sitting higher. But what is happening to me might not happen to you. Also my weight is changing and I don't know what effect that has too.

My advice is not to fear menopause. It isn't necessarily a sentence to a worse situation. Take the best care of yourself that you can and live one day at a time.

Fab post Granolamom :-)

My Mother has gone through Menopause - Many years through it now...

Her Prolapse I believe has been worsened dur to Constipation...

For me - I got here cared out of my wits. now it is 2 years later and because of this site and Christines patience with me - I can go out and not hafta think of every toilet on my route. I can do anything I want to do and don't hafta always worry about a dragging sensation.

For me avoiding surgery started with the aspect of PAIN from that - lol - I am a wimppppppp.

Then as I have learned more over this past two years I have become more and more hardened to the surgery side of things cos I have read sooooo many stories of how they thought it was fab - And the reality was far far different. This is why alot of us here have decided - If it ain't broke - Dont fix it.

Prolapse is not being broken down below - It is being altered through LIFE...

And people tend not to die from it - It is just a pain in the a$$ or whatever lolol

If I could talk myself into believing that surgery would be a FIX (And I mean Fix in the widest extreme - Ie If it even worked for ten years that would be better than two or three)

I just think its best to avoid what you can live without and if coping mentally can help the physical and understanding your body - Then I will go for that one every time!

I still freak out when I think of people invading nether regions and just tacking this to that and hoping it will hold...

But I have told NIk under no terms if I go into hospital for anything Gynae - Is anyone allowed to FIX what is not needed fixing. So I am hoping he TELLS them that THIS WOMAN DOES NOT CONSIDER HERSELF BROKEN BY PROLAPSE IN FACT SHE QUITE LIKES IT AS IT IS SO KEEP YOUR GRUBBY HANDS OFFA HER UNDERPARTICLES OR SHE WILL SUE YOUR ASS OFF

But - even in saying that - Sueing people wont bring back what would have been altered.

So best I stay outta the hospital then ;-)

I just want my body to be mine - Not invaded by mesh and stuff (I am already invaded by mesh for the hernia I had no choice over getting fixed - Strangulated hernia KILLS - Prolapse doesnt kill - So I will be happy with that)

I dont wanna be invaded by any string and mesh and god knows what that will tie things inside of me to things that they are NOT meant to be tethered to.

*Runs off to take a chill pill*
Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

For Sue, Marie, and Anne H -

As a recent survivor of menopause, the best advice I can offer is to recognize it going in! After six years of really tortuous perimenopause, I finally realized what was happening nearly a year into menopause. A doctor promised me it would take 8 months, and it took 2.5 years. I really thought I was losing my mind.

Strangely, it began with a fear of traffic lights! I've never been afraid of anything in my life, and suddenly, I couldn't go through traffic lights. Fear slowly became my second nature.

If the weight change is gain, menopause and the reduction of estrogen means you can't eat as much as you once did. As a gainer of 35 pounds, I found out even with strenuous exercise, and watching every calorie, my old 1200 calorie diet needed to be adjusted to 600 calories or I'd gain weight. I was starving and gaining daily.

I didn't have the prolapse until menopause was just about done, so I feel blessed. My heart pours out to those young women who have to struggle with this from their youth. Tissues do thin out and hormones don't help. Christine is right. They give you a false sense that everything is OK. They do help take the depression away, but you feel like a fat fuzzy chicken. The truly horrible thing about hormones is that you have to come off them sooner or later and the whole wretched thing starts over again. My friend was "yanked" off hormones at 63 and it threw her into a downward spiral she will never recover from. She also got a prolapse.

If you realize what is happening and find someone to understand all the different stages, you will be much better able to solve any problems that confront you.

The last stage of menopause is a life review in which you review all the little hurts and questions and tragedies of your life. It was one of the saddest few months of my life and totally intolerable to the people around me. It becomes the most important thing in your life, and then it suddenly stops, and it doesn't matter any more.

For those people who are still having babies, this probably doesn't seem important at all, and it won't for many years, but I think it is worth knowing about because time does have a way of catching up with us.

Judy
Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

G-Mom,

Enjoy it! Having babies is the best time in your life. That wonderful 5 a.m. feeding when you think you and the baby are the only people in the world. It's a truly blessed time in your life; don't short change it. There is nothing in the world more wonderful than a child, and the more you have of your own, the better. I wouldn't trade this prolapse for anything I've shared with any of my wonderful children - hard pregnancies, stupid doctors, dumb husband tricks. They are all grown up now and I miss that baby time. I suppose that's why I work with very young children. Love hearing about yours, however.

God Bless you,

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

hey marie. thanks for personally addressing my question. sounds like you have definitely been where i am. i am so happy to hear i will hopefully one day be more active, because it doesn't seem like it right now. do you have any recall when things started to feel a bit more normal for you. i think about the hanging sensation every moment of every day, except when i am sitting!!! i would love to go hiking one day. you have used everything possible to get better....can you put your finger on what helped the most???? or should i go full throttle also???
and thanks from the women who discussed the menopause issue. it only seems logical that it would get worse if it isn't great to start with. or perhaps i will just get a head start on knowing all of the tools for helping the prolapse. j

So we stop pulling and tugging on our precious sweater and never again put it through the washing machine and dryer. Instead, we gently wear it, wash it and block it so that in time it regains some of its lost shape.

Unlike dead wool though, the substrate of our living fabric is created by vitamin C and renews itself every few weeks. It is vastly connected to a larger framework made of muscle and bone that does the blocking for us when we sit, stand, and move in our original shape. As long as we honor our natural shape (which keeps the organs at right angles to the pelvic outlet so they CANNOT fall out), eat a healthful diet, and stop all straining on the toilet, prolapse should not significantly worsen…estrogen, schmeshtrogen!

Flora…are you there? Can you tell us whether your prolapse has worsened in the three years you have been with us? You must be 79 now, right?

Christine

Addressing the when to be more active--the "falling out feeling" is up to you really...just because you have the feeling doesn't mean you shouldn't walk, hike etc. You can have that feeling getting up and moving from room to room not doing anything--at least I can and it can't prevent me from taking a walk with my family unless I choose not to go. When I get it it automatically reminds me to check the posture...and keep on going. It is like any chronic condition I think--if you were slightly spastic in your movements because of a disease/condition you would choose whether or not to walk or to sit despite the "feeling" you have at the time-- if you really wanted to go you would go...I know the feeling is bothersome--it bothers me--sometimes I cuss like a sailor under my breath and sometimes I want to cry, but I have to keep going regardless....

Like everything else in life you just go and trust and live with whatever you feel...I would hike if you like that and I would only discontinue things you know are not good for your pelvic area because it is destabilizing and self talk your way through it--it is really up to you---

Great post G-mom!

Christine

Thanks for once again reminding us of the Wholewoman ethos. It is so easy to get distracted from the main game.

Thanks to all who have posted on the prolapse/menopause story. It has just occurred to me that it would be natural for prolapse to alter to a degree with menopause, which after all is inimately tied up with changes in our genitals. However it only alters because of where we are in our reproductive life, *not because we didn't have an operation when we were younger*. Menopause is only a milestone on the journey, and one that we would rather not be beaten over the head with.

Maybe prolapse manifests differently after menopause, so we have to go through the whole process of managing it with a different regime at a time when we don't really feel able to cope with much, and that's what makes it feel worse? If it got much worse there would not be many post-menopausal women using Wholewoman techniques successfully, and it seems that there are, ie Yes, it may get worse but does that matter if it is still manageable?

Cheers

Louise

I really want to encourage you that stabilization and improvement is possible. As to when it got better, the early months (and perhaps year) after discovery were the most arduous, mostly due to the fear I felt. I think there is a grieving process involved that requires going through. I began making changes right away, and researching everything that I could that could possibly help. That was my way. It may or may not be yours. I couldn't rest until I turned over stone after stone. First and foremost, I began following the WW plan. Read Christine's book. Clothing, exercise, diet, posture. These all made significant impacts on my healing. I still abide by the clothing suggestions. And, I love what I wear way more than I ever did before! I also use the exercise program religiously -- the WW ballet workout. I feel way better after and the day after I do it. So, it's part of my life. Don't feel like you have to do all of it. (Life can be intense with a new baby!) Some nights I just do some plies. Even a little helps. I have also found some healing with use of the vaginal exerciser. As a perk of using that, s*x is way better than before! I found that the accupuncture and Chinese herbs really helped my overall well-being, which in turn affected my mind and body positively. I really noticed profound changes when I stopped carrying my baby all the time, at around 18 months old. He didn't walk until 16 1/2 months. Yes, the carrying of the baby impacted me in terms of my everyday symptoms, and has gotten better since I stopped. But, I still tried to carry him as much as I could when he needed to -- wasn't going to give that up!

So, I hope some of this answers your questions and is helpful. You may be in the most difficult part of it -- early post-partum, hormones adjusting, with a new baby. Just hang in there and work on the mental part, too -- the fear of the future is the worst part of it, I found. Do affirmations that your body is healing. That helped me a lot. Don't let the fear get you. It's the boogeyman.

Blessings,

Marie

Hi Christine,
No my prolapse has not worsened in the 3 years I have been doing this work. It did improve from a grade 3 to about a grade 2 when I first started the work and has remained pretty much the same ever since. I have days when it seems worse but I have usually been on my feet too long. I don't do as many exercises as I used to but that is just laziness on my part. I do a lot of walking and use my gazelle. I still do all my own house work including spring cleaning and grocery shopping.
I was finished menopause when I discovered my prolapses. My opinion is if you have your prolapses under control before menopause I doubt they will worsen to any degree.
No Christine I am not 79 I will be 72 on my next birthday and I expect when I am 79 I will still be doing most of the things I do now.
Yes, Ladies there is still life after menopause and it can be great, depending on your own outlook on life.
I am enjoying my own post menopausal years tremendously.
Regards to all,
Flora.

I think there is a settling out of the pelvic organs that is very uncomfortable to the younger woman but seems rather natural to the older woman.