Fear vs. Hope

Hi Zelda

My heart is just busting reading your post. You are so like me, and so like many of the Wholewomen. This is not love-bombing you. It is real.

Go to www.wholewoman.com and check out the FAQ's. This will give you the fundamentals of optimising your posture for keeping your pelvic organs tucked away safely inside you. Get a copy of Christine Kent's book, Saving the Wholewoman. This book will affirm lots of stuff for you, give you some facts to support your intuition about the perils and foolishness of surgery, and explain to you what is happening in our body. I think any lingering need to find a competent surgeon may evaporate. Yes, the competence of the surgeon is very important, but it is also what they do during the surgery that is the main problem, stringing organs up to supports they were never designed to be hung from, and often precipitating further prolapses into the spaces that are left, among the scarring, nerve damage and alteration to urination etc

You probably won't need surgery at all. I was told the same as you re hysterectomy etc, and my response was similar too. Three years later I still have all my bits and am very grateful. Nobody's gettng their scalpel on my recreation area! Thoughts of surgery are way behind me. BTW, attention to diet, clothing design and appropriate exercise are all really important too.

Life will be a little different for you from now on, but not radically. I still mow lawns and split wood (though less now), build fences etc. I just do it in a way that I am more mindful of each movement. You've just got to learn to take it a little slower so you can be mindful of your movements, and not bust yourself, or ... you'll bust yourself. Simple, eh?

Hey, did you get the blinking lawnmower to start? I've got one like that. I just prime it a few more times these days. If the carby floods I say lots of rude words then go and do something else for a few minutes and come back to it. I have been known to mow the lawn in near darkness after DH gets home to start the damned thing! But I have it sorted now. (No, he doesn't mow lawn. Doesn't like keeping an adequate supply of split wood either. Sigh ...)

Keep splitting the wood. Just make sure you use the weight of the splitter/axe head to bring it down, not your ab muscles. Stick your butt out *and relax your lower belly*. This maintains your lumbar curve. Swing the axe initially in a downward, backward arc, up to balance point at the top, then let it fall on the block (circular path). Stay as upright as you can as you bring it down so it has further to fall and will come down harder, all by itself. (Hey, you probably already do it this way!) Don't lift the axe forwards and up to get a swing. And do not hurry at this task. You can probably do it, but just tweak it a bit so the forces contribute to keeping it all inside, instead of blowing it out with wasted force. Read the book to understand this concept.

Yeah, the women who rave about the surgery they had a couple of months ago are a bit hard to take. Most women do seem to be euphoric with the short term results if they can ignore the pain and scars. It is what happens over the next couple of years, let alone the next 30 years, that worries me. No way. Maybe they just have different priorities from mine? They can have it. I can always have surgery later if I want to. They can never go back to how they were when it ends up worse than it started, from repeated surgery.

The fear, denial, fragility and panic will all subside bit by bit as you learn new ways of doing life, and that you are no less of a woman from this slippage of organs, which is just a result of living life and having babies. Next time around I would do things differently from childhood, and make sure I have a mother who is informed enough to know what to teach me, maybe in the face of mainstream beliefs. But that's not the current reality.

Grief for what is lost is a normal part of getting used to having prolapses. Just go with it until you find it is no longer affecting you practically. You are no doubt also grieving for what you have lost in other parts of your life recently. Open wounds wherever you look. Be gentle on yourself. Time, good Wholewoman posture, good diet with plenty of fruit, veges, fibre, fluids etc, comfy free-belly clothes and healthy lifestyle will have you coming out the other end whole and strong, and able to help others defeat the bogeyman which is fear.

Keep calling back to the Forum.

Cheers

Louise

I can feel your spunk, your anger and frustration in your post.
harness it and heal thyself, woman!
you can do it!!!

I can't add much to louise's post, she pretty much said what I was going to say, only better.

I will tell you that my prolapse hardly affects my life anymore. I'm as active as I ever was (though not nearly as active as you wonderwomen who split your own wood!) and I don't 'pay for it' later either.

all this without surgery. really. its the posture and some of the exercises in christine's book along with some lifestyle changes.

it can be done.

Except I don't split wood. I'm more of a couch potato, or maybe it's more accurate now to say a computer-chair potato. I too have a distrust of Western Medicine and I too put up with my husband's flaws because we have a great sex life. Well, he is also fantastic in many other ways too. Preserving our sex life is one of the most important things to consider in my decisions about that area of my body. I also birthed my babies naturally except I am sorry to say, they were not home births and I did end up with an episiotomy with the first one. But I did consider home births; just didn't find a midwife I trusted.

My second child was born when I was 33 and I had mild prolapse for many years after. About 5 years ago it began to get more severe. I am now 51 and undergoing perimenopause. I have all three kinds, uterine, rectocele and cystocele.

It is hard to say whether you can "live with" the sensations of the cystocele because everyone is different and what I feel may not be what someone else feels. But to me, the cystocele is the one I can feel while walking, doing normal activities. It bulges out somewhat between my vaginal lips and sometimes I notice its presence. Now, a big part of choosing to live with this instead of having it surgically "corrected" is getting used to such a sensation. I've had it so many years now that it seems "normal" to me. The feeling of panic and horror in early days is entirely gone. I do notice that if I am dry down there it bothers me more, so a bit of any water based natural lubricant can soothe the area and make you feel better.

I have some urinary symptoms but have decided to live with them rather than take what could occur after surgical correction. I have some stress incontinence and overflow incontinence but they occur only very rarely. My most common symptom is weak stream and stop-and-start urinating. I have a pessary I use sometimes When I feel like I want to stuff everything back up high for a while. The pessary presses the cystocele back in a bit and I think might simulate what a surgical correction does. But when I am wearing the pessary I MUST WEAR A PAD because I "leak" much more frequently, nearly every time I run or sneeze. I think one of the more frequent complications of surgical correction is increased stress incontinence. How nice when I tire of having to wear a pad to simply remove the pessary. I read another forum FOR surgery and there is a constant parade of women who have leakage problems after surgery. There are also womena who cannot go at all and must self-cathetarize. I figure... I can live with things as they are. Whey risk either of those scenarios by having surgery?

I struggle with the body image issue. I struggle with that for other reasons too. My hair is turning gray. Do I fight it with constantly dying my hair or do I come to terms with aging? My weight is creeping up and it's harder to keep it off. Do I have liposuction? No, I try to diet and exercise more, and accept that my metabolism changes as I age. My face is getting wrinkles and my skin is getting age spots and I am mourning my loss of beauty. But it is a necessary process of aging and I HAVE to come to terms with it; I have no choice. For me, this is the decade of making peace with letting go of youth and embracing the coming years as a "mature" woman. The new pelvic arrangement is just one more thing that comes with aging. I realize you are only 39, still 11 years away from 50, at which point you may too confront these other signs of aging, but my point is that at some point you too will incorporate it into your overall "new" you... the you that will become elderly, with all the changes whether we like them or not, that happen as we age. You can choose THIS path, or you can choose to try to cut-and-paste things back together with surgery and hope for the best.

This isn't really meant to advise you to not have surgery, it is just a verbalizing of my inner thoughts and feelings about the issue. As I said, I can't feel what you feel and tell you that you can just "live with it". In any case, our philosophy here ISN'T just to "live with it", but to address it and minimize the symptoms, and maybe even stop the progression, by living a certain lifestyle, adopting certain postures, and so on. The great thing about this website and the wholewoman approach is that you are doing SOMETHING. You aren't just helplessly sitting there being told to tolerate the condition as is. I truly believe these methods help, but even if they don't, there is something to be said for placebo effect; doing them certainly can't hurt you, and, because of the diet and movement aspects, will actually improve your overall health. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying Christine's method.

But I get the feeling you aren't seriously considering surgery anyway, or at least already have a big, healthy skepticism toward it and would need some heavy convincing to make you do it. You'll never find the convincing, because the studies to show how well surgery cures you and keeps you cured for the rest of your life simply DON'T EXIST. I get the feeling what you really came for more than anything was to get it off your chest (living with it somewhat secretly for 12 years!) and to find moral support from other women with the same problem. You've got that here!!

Since you say you have a great sex life, you already know that pelvic organ prolapse has very little impact on sex. Surgery, on the other hand, is NOTORIOUS for causing subsequent sexual dysfunction. First of all, if they remove the uterus, your orgasms change, as the uterus is responsible for many of the sensations you feel during orgasm. Then, the "tightening" of the tissues, implantation of mesh, suspension from the sacrum and so on, all often leaves the vagina painful upon insertion of a penis. Probably you have an increase in risk of UTI (honeymoon cystitis) because they've eliminated protective tissues adjacent to the urethra. I'm guessing about that last one, haven't researched it myself, maybe Christine knows, but I would be very surprised if it isn't true. So in regards to my sex life, IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT.

Another thought that makes me know I'm doing the right thing is thinking about all the women throughout history who did not have a surgical option. Pelvic organ prolapse is extremely common, even if you remove the modern factors, such as episiotomy, that make it even more common than it should be, but there has always been a significant percent of women who have had prolapse. Before surgery was available, they handled things. I think we as a society have become too dependent on surgical quick fixes and have lost a lot of the folk wisdom that we used to have to rely on to deal with non-fatal problems. Pelvic organ prolapse is an inconvenience, not a major threat to your health. It saddens me a great deal that we've lost the sense of tight community that used to exist, where women would discreetly share this wisdom and keep each other functional. That is how MOST health problems were addressed; to visit a professional "doctor" in an imposing huge "industry" for your health treatment is a recent modern anomaly. It's great for a lot of things, but it is folly to assume therefore that it's best for ALL things... it isn't. Pelvic organ prolapse is one of those things that I believe women have happier outcomes handling it the old-fashioned way, not by undergoing the knife.

I just had to comment AnneH on your reply to Zelda, it sure picked me up no end and I agree entirely with everything you have said, some days I feel droopy down there and my rectocele doesn't help either some days but i find that i can have two or three like this and 2 weeks not bad at all, this place and Christines advice have been a God send and people like you
(((AnneH)))

I'm touched that you're touched... :-))

Hey Anne

I find Wholewoman Vulva balm is good for everyday use. It is oil and beeswax based, instead of water-based, so you don't get quite as soggy as using a water-based lubricant during the day. It melts at body temperature so it very easy to apply, and is very soothing on damaged tissue too. Haven't yet tried the Peri Balm.

There is also a product called Replens which is a vaginal moisturiser (as opposed to a lubricant). I have only just found out about it. I did find a couple of articles researching it from pretty serious journals. It might be a better product than a water-based lubricant for everyday comfort, as the conclusions of the research suggest that it is as useful as estradiol cream, but without the hormones, and that it has a maturing effect on vaginal epthelial (surface) cells, which don't mature properly with lowered estrogen levels that you get in perimenopause and beyond.

I haven't tried Replens yet, so I can't blanket recommend it. You use it 2 or 3 times a week and you can use a lubricant for sex as well, for extra protection. This dry vagina business really peeves me. I am determined to beat it! It makes lovemaking seem like swinging on squeaky swing, still great but with an unwanted annoyance.

I have forgotten where I found the research papers on the Net, but googling Replens will probably find them. Email me if you cannot find them. I will send them to you, as I saved them as Word documents.

Cheers

Louise

Ah, I hadn't tried oil and beeswax. Thanks for the tip. The water based does make me feel a bit like I've just seen the gynecologist, ha ha.

You can buy them all from www.wholewoman.com and follow the links to the online shop, maybe via the Wholewoman Center website. They are all oil and beeswax based.

Cheers

Louise

The Wholewoman balms have all sorts of root extracts and things as well as being oil and beeswax-based. Some have different oils as the base.

DH and I were having one of those waking up conversations this morning and he commented on the Bliss Balm. We normally use olive oil with some yland ylang massage oil added, as a lubricant but have just started recently using the Bliss Balm. DH said, in a very blokey manner.

"That bliss balm ooooooooooo, ya know its yum, sort of oooooo!"

I think you could call that a deep and meaningful male endorsement.

Cheers

Louise