? about something that happened during sex last night....

That it is very healthy to do it 4 times per week. My dh and I laugh about it, but maybe there is some good truth to it. I always feel better after, I think it tones everything up in there. Especially when on top!

a while back, sue was asking if anyone had feedback regarding sex and prolapse.
you're not the only one to report that sex puts things back where they belong. sometimes for a few hrs some reported for a few days.
so I'm in agreement with your dh, have sex every night! enjoy :)

Oh yeah, sex does help it feel more normal. The more sex the better, I found. The effect of stuffing it back up is just temporary for sure, but I am convinced it keeps your tissues healthy to use them as nature intended. Plus you need the psychological factor of feeling functional as a woman. Good sex is my revenge... prolapse is NOT going to rob me of it.

Experiments showed that over time sex really does help. After a month or more of regular sex you will find the prolapse can remain further UP for anything up for a few weeks...

I can't remember the name of the thread where the experiment was held but my findings did not include lady on top lol.

But I have found that it helps alot to put things back into normal positions :-)
Sue

Look into the eyes - They hold the key!
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/img/maddy544x150Banner.jpg

Hello -
This has happened to me as well !!! If things are going allright down there I love that position as well, and even think my G-spot is more available than it used to be. But it's a silver lining I would trade for my old body back again. I am so damn preoccupied with where my prolapse is that I find myself looking for patterns and am struggling with a lot of grief over my frequent bouts with this. But in between those lines is the fact that it does go back and those reprieves are tense with "What am I doing differently ?" and "What makes it come back?". I have got to find a way to stop this hyper-focus.

I really don't know how to make ends meet anymore and I miss my active lifestyle. I feel fragile and have crazy thoughts about envying people in wheel-chairs... It's lost, they have to accept their chair and take pleasure as they can. I feel like I wrestle with all my choices and movements, or get denial or defiant and then suffer consequences. Life and those happily living it taunt me and tease me. I have even crazier thoughts, but then- I have kids.

I quit one of my jobs today because I just can't do it - and I need the money, almost as much as I need to take care of myself. My boss is on a short list of people that "know" and is one of many that encourages me to get the surgery. The language and the assumptions made by these people gets me really mad. Like I'm just a big chicken or that there's ways around the financial burden. I try - I really do - to be brief, polite- but," after my research I feel strongly against the existing surgical method. etc." The problem is I'm not being heard, and seem to have the conversation repeatedly, like with my boss. I'm a little alarmed at the rage that boils up inside me and that I have to conceal. But I really AM one pissed-off woman. I need some kind of Appropriate target. Nothing in the world deserves it though.

I am grateful - and regularly reaching for the list of gratitudes. It's all I have. It's shorter now, I'm thinking. Partly because of financial stress. But I do believe there are deep lessons involved with this experience - this theft. But I'm really not sure what they are yet. I don't have the luxury of becoming a better knitter. My first glimmer of a lesson seems to be ; NO ONE ELSE can fix me. I have to find a way through this gracefully myself. But GOD damn don't I grieve.

Thank All YOU Amazing women who come here and leave such personal and precious connections. This website gets me through more of the desperate moments than my friends here can. I have really come to despise the pity. And seem to struggle with shame over this condition - another whole subject. The whole sexual/psychological/self-esteem aspect.

I haven't quite gained the strength to help back... some heart-breaking pleas I've read here.... I just need to rant and rave, I guess. But one of these years I'll have learned to live with this and will pass on the wisdom. For now I'm reaching. For the wine. Whine.
Zelda

Hi Zelda

Look, just be patient. Easy to say, I know, but it will get better. It is so hard when those around you pressurise you. It is also hard when you are an active woman who is not used to having the terms of your life dictated by something you cannot change. Be angry.

Keep a copy of Saving the Whole Woman with you to pull out when you need to shut up one of your critics, and if they won't shut up, think of them naked and think how much their ignorance is making a fool of them.

I have, over the last three years of Wholewoman, found ways to do almost everything I used to do. The only difference is that now I ask for help a bit more often, particularly in the heavy lifting department, but there is rarely anyone around when I need stuff lifted so I usually figure out another way to skin the cat, or leave it until The Incredible Hulk arrives home. I now have the presence of mind to not go and lift the damned thing and to hell with the consequences!

I am constantly amazing myself with things I am doing once again, now I am confident of my own body's ability to use itself correctly and have lost the fear of my prolapses worsening because I now know how to look after them.

In reality, I think I have now accepted my prolapses as a part of me and just move and do stuff more mindfully. Anything strenuous or for a long period of time is OK as long as my pelvic organs are out front of my pubic bone.

Yeah, I still have my off days, but they pass and I am back to normal, not back to what I was as a teenager, but OK prolapse-wise. I wouldn't even say I 'suffer' from pelvic organ prolapse. I know what suffering is, and this is not it.

You will get there too.

Cheers

Louise

You make so many comments that have also run through my head. This must be something we all go through in the early grieving stages. Many wrong thoughts have gone through my head but its times like last night when my 16 month old daughter was so unwell that she needed me and I needed to be there for her that I feel so ashamed for those thoughts.

I am angry, depressed and so very very upset that this has happened to me that I don't know how to find my way back from this. I check, check and recheck my prolapse all day long just to see how bad it is getting with every move I make. Having a bowel movement is an extremely stressful event now. My life has changed forever and not for the good. I feel restricted and am suffocating under the emotions of this. I go to bed shaking, I wake up shaking and if it wasn't for my family I do not know where I would be right now.

I find myself looking at young women feeling so envious that they have everything intact as it should be. I want to turn back time.

I am so angry that there is not a 'fix' for this problem. Why can't it just be stitched back up at that be the end of it. Its even crossed my mind to have my vagina sewn shut so nothing can ever fall out. I read an old post from someone who knew someone whose stitched up uterus had lasted 47 years and was still going - I could live with those odds. If there is a next life I hope I come back as a man.

Nothing has fallen out of me yet but I feel it is inevitable and I feel like one day I will have no choice but to risk the surgeon's knife and probably submit myself to a life of pain and misery and one surgery after the other. I am only 36 and if I live to a ripe old age then I could have 50 plus years of this misery.

This is such a "sorry for myself" posting and I am sorry but with lack of sleep last night and trying to care for my daughter whilst constantly worry about worsening my prolapses I am frazzled.

A

ATS. start now. find a supportive phrase and make it your mantra. Repeat anytime you are feeling panic. There is a proven scientific connection between mind and body.
If it helps- I say- my body is strong. my body will heal. and ride the wave until it passes.
Have you seen the stomach vacuum exercises yet? They work great for my uterus and bladder. So far not so great for my rectocele but again I think in time......
I know how it feels to have a baby who can't breathe. Take care of yourself too.

Hello A,
Yes those are more of the thoughts I've shared with you. I live in a college town and often see girls jogging... I'm 39 and also feel like I have a long path of misery ahead of me. My children are 12 and 16. I shudder at the thought of going through this while juggling babies and diaper-bags. Well - babytime was hard for me , I didn't want to slow down, I wanted to be out there doing stuff and was restless. If you are a stay at home Mom, maybe you can find a way to take this time to heal, Just don't do what I'm doing... isolating. I've made my world pretty small because I can't bear to subject people to my difficult energy. And pity tips me over, maybe because I'm already drowning in my OWN self-pity.

I'm thinking about starting a support group here in my town. I've wanted to hug so many of you. I want a friend who shares this challenge. I think it's hard for others to comprehend and quickly becomes a strain. I have a deep locked away fear that my husband will look for an unbroken fully capable woman.... I have read some devastating tales here. So that has reinforced my feeling that although I let him know when it's bothering me, I DO NOT give in to the temptation to show him my desperation - very often anyway and always regret the weakness if I do. Burdening him with it does not seem to lighten my load any, it just increases my anxiety. I am working at being an actress. Let's just pretend. About a third of the time intercourse is uncomfortable and makes me ache after... I'll keep that to my self.
And since we're exploring the dark side of all this. I am now fearful that my Cystocele could get worse if I don't find a way to win the lottery. Meaning - How the hell do I change my whole life around in time ? Winter is coming on and I heat my house with a wood-stove. etc. etc. I Have decided I will no longer garden and clean house for work. And THAT's a whole 'nother subject. I love to garden!!! Have any of you out there found that your language has gone down hill ? I find myself using the "F" word much more often. Sometimes I just string it together over and over. Like a Mantra ! Hah !!! how's that for black humor ?

ARE WE MORE LIKELY TO GET THEM ALL IF WE CAN'T SLOW DOWN ?!?

Are any of you imagining crazy solutions ?

Here's my favorite... RUNning away - or maybe driving- and Joining a Bhuddist monastary.

I know that although I am exploring this darkness I am reaching towards the maturity of spirit to find my happiness and look at it fully. Have any of you checked out " The Secret"? The power of thought is an interesting meditation. We must become aware of the choices we can and do make in our thoughts.
Zelda

Oh Zelda, I share your pain, anger and frustration.

I had to take my daughter to hospital yesterday as her breathing was so bad and we were left waiting 8 hours in total before finally being told to go home. She is on antiobiotics and if she deteriorates any further to bring her straight back. We were left in a playroom with small hard child seats and I was cursing left right and centre. I could not keep in posture as I was so tired and uncomfortable and I had to keep picking my daughter up and cradle her as she needed her mommy (and quite rightly so!). I was really worried about her but at the same time I just kept thinking over and over and over again about my prolapses and if what I was doing was making them worse.

My focus should have only been on my daughter but because of what has happened I have become selfish and self obsessed.

I am desperate for things not to worsen as what has happened so far is bad enough and I am not sure how much more I could take. I feel like my vagina is the most fraile thing on earth at the moment and one wrong step and its going to hit the floor! Apart from being so damn uncomfortable it is so undignified. I don't have a lady garden anymore but an alien has taken its place.

I sincerely hope we can find a way through this and with practice of the posture and eventually when I get my hands on the book etc I may be able to improve things.

I did not want my days consumed with how my vagina is doing but here I am.

A

Zelda, So much of what you are saying feels like it is coming directly from my soul. It's like you are writing my thoughts. There are, of course, differences in our lives but I think our devastation is the same. I am finding that I am a much better cheerleader to others than to myself right now. I cannot, don’t want to wrap my head around the loss. This feels like the largest darkness I have ever encountered, and the exit is blocked with huge boulders. This is not depression, this is sorrow. I am hopeful that when I get the physically painful parts sorted out, the change physically will become easier to cope with. It is hard to cope when I have vaginal burning constantly. It is hard to cope when I am so physically and emotionally exhausted. I struggled for 15 months to come back from a devastating round of HRT, only to find what had been happening all along I keep telling myself I can come through this too. But I am so tired. I am trying to listen to my own wisdom, and to the wisdom of so many good hearts here. It is hard. I am also alone in the daytime. Too much time to think. I have so many hobbies, gardening, sewing, photography related things...but I can find no enthusiasm for any of it. My beautiful gardens are becoming weed lots...can I physically take care of them again? Yes, I have had thoughts of crazy solutions. Far too many lovely and well loved people in my life to hurt them more. It's like being stuck with life passing by. Hopefully this will pass and I can listen to my own words of support I have offered. I truly meant everything word I said. The stronger side of me still believes...the hurting side is scared to death. I was so darn strong...why this? I want to be strong again. Kit

Sweetie, you are not being selfish or self-obsessed...your mourning is natural, plus you have the added stress of caring for your little one. I know how exhausted you are. Please don't condemn yourself for having natural feelings of loss. I pray for your little one's speedy recovery. If you have to go back to the doctor's office, maybe you could take a floor pillow with you for you and your little one's comfort. Do whatever you need to do for yourself. Blessings and hugs, Kit

Just aching to go to war !!! For me and you A, and you Kit, and you. All of us. My first battle cry is "Never apologize or feel guilty for your thoughts and feelings !" Here of all places. This IS the place to " let it all hang out", I think it's the only way I have found to get it moving through me and maybe start letting it go , replacing it - maybe - with compassion and self-value ? Anyone offended by TMI can go find a tamer conversation.

The thing about thoughts and feelings is that they change and they are not WHO we are ! They are WHERE we are. and that we can change. I know I've already done much of that in my previous life but I seem to be having a slow go of it with this cursed curve. Sending big bad love your way - heck I bet you even have your own resident Amazon.
Zelda

We take turns falling down and holding each other up...what a world it would be is all aspects of life were handled this way.

Somewhere in all my reading, I found a post where Christine said the areas that we are all having issues with renew every three weeks and that vitamin C is needed to facilitate this. Pardon me Christine if I am misquoting, I have been reading a lot. So I made a power drink with my juicer with two tangerines, I mammoth carrot, I golden delicious apple and I huge granny smith apple. I don't know how much vitamin C is in it but it is really delicious, and very pretty too. Kit

I think we hyjacked this thread. Shalom's initial post was so much more fun and uplifting. Sorry, Shalom. Kit

Hi Zelda (and you too, A, for you will come through this too!)

I could have written most of your last post myself.

I still can't bring myself to vacuum and mop floors, or clean up the mess in my house. My paperwork pile is still growing.

But it is spring here in Oz and I am at last in demolishing and building mode out here in the Wild Wheatbelt in the West. The waist-high wild oats in my garden are bowing to my blows. The snakes and lizards are fleeing in terror before me. The rose arbour has been demolished. The roses are transplanted. The brickpaving has been lifted and the bricks cleaned for re-use. Paths are appearing from the wilderness. Shrubs and trees bow before me. I am alive. (I think that is all straight out of the Old Testament.) Hear me roar!

This has not all happened in the last week, mind you. But is has been happening gradually over the last nine months, and it comes and goes. I at last feel like I am in a different phase of life or something. Yes, I think about my prolapses several times a day. I have to when I am doing physically challenging tasks. I will have to do that for the rest of my life, so I may as well get used to it.

Let's see, I am 54. My mother is 95, and her mother was nearly 104 when she died. That's a long time I've probably got left in me. I am going to be enjoying this garden for a long time to come.

Hang in there. I guess I will get around to the floors when I have a grandchild or two crawling around on them (not for a while yet!). And the paperwork can wait until the summer days get too hot for gardening.

Zelda, it's probably worth considering that isolation can do bad things to your head if you don't watch it. I love being able to work hard by myself and not have to cooperate with another person for whole days at a time, but it does my head in if I don't have a little interaction with people outside of home, just to keep an eye on reality. So I'm off to town to buy a hose right now.

Cheers

Louise

I'm feeling a bit better - in the head anyways. The guys were out hunting and I guess I sorta unraveled. I do believe this site has made a huge difference in the pressure cooker feelings I have been holding in. I so hope your little on is well on the mend . Hugs to you.

Zelda

I never would have thought to find myself caring about faceless people on the web and have always thought forming friendships or even worse - love relationships- online as sort of pathetic. And here I am worrying about A's baby, and identifying with Kit and wanting to go to lunch with you ! Thank you ladies for cradling my hurt and anger.

All the full circles I seem to see forming in my life. My judgmental nature (Libra) seems to be softening with my age (39). The fates apparently have wicked humor. I do miss my young body but it's really all I miss. I often ponder the blessings of age and wisdom. I like who I am now, and really remember being lost when I was younger. I too have been looking around at all the women around me and realize how much more I see in their faces and bodies. I am choosing to embrace my maturity. I won't dye my hair, I no longer wear make up daily ( but I love my lipstick) I will always be a funky woman but I know I will not desperately try to be sexy. I always feel so sad for the women who can't find more in their life than sex appeal. In my (judgmental) mind they are perpetually stuck in a kind of adolescence. I too have long pondered the hysterectomy look and have long held a pure horror of the procedure and suspicious of doctors who seem so enthusiastic about it. I can't believe this has not been thoroughly studied. Proof of patriarchy !!! Every last aspect of the physiology of the Penis has been studied in detail - no doubt.

I was trying to start a lawn-mower this June when my prolapse presented, but have come to reflect on how long I have been heading down this road. Things really never quite right since the natural birth of my 11' 12oz. bouncing boy - who at 12 yrs. is nearly 5'7" ! The other thing I have wondered is wether the stage was set with an Ovarian cyst I had removed at 16, with the loss of that ovary... My scar is right over my pubic bone because my teenage vanity wanted to wear swim suits.

I am - this beautiful morning, feeling quite hopeful that I will conquer the worst of these symptoms. Much of this turnabout thanx to this site. I already have a marvelous Chiropractor and Accupuncturist. Just no monies. I have - sadly- put my house on the market in August, and am already grieving this loss even though it hasn't sold yet. My next property will be in town limiting my garden and hopefully only one floor. Stairs, laundry, groceries, ack.

As to my isolation... It's relative to the way I used to be. I have friends whose messages I haven't returned and letters I haven't written. They are conversations I just can't bear. The shock of this has worn off a little in 4 months but I do feel this odd mix of shame, humiliation, and distance from the general population. I do get out, but don't find myself being friendly and open like I used to be. It's almost like some strange Scarlet letter on my heart. I am just so damn sad, angry and morose that I feel like I walk around with a wall around me and often wish I could go about invisible. I don't want to inflict myself on anyone. I have 2 Great GF's, one lives here, the other (more grief and loss) just moved 1000 miles away. The other great friend in my life has recently lost her mind. My mother. If I wasn't so reduced and furious with her, I would be quite worried about her. Without going into a complicated story too deeply- She is very angry about my reconciliation with my husband. She was a very destructive force in our marriage. She also has one favorite grandchild - my daughter from my first marriage- and one she dislikes and which she can barely conceal. My son has enough challenges as he is somewhere on the autism spectrum and has enough social stress and insecurity. I've come to feel that she is dangerous to me and my family - emotionally. She came and visited 2 months ago, and was so primed for a fight, which I wouldn't quite give her. She said many horrible things trying to goad me into a screaming match - but the very worst was "I'm done with you !" said Twice ! with such poison. She left and I haven't spoken with her since. Every day that goes by without her calling and begging my forgiveness makes me more and more sure that her pride is the "biggest" part of her personality. I don't need any of it. My life is better without her. I just can't believe her behavior towards me with all I am going through !!! But - I grieve, because we have been so close, I thought, but now I see her "agenda" and it was much illusion and disfunction. And she's a Therapist !! HAH.
I read back over this letter - and MYohmy. Grief. My life is full of grief. But I know it will gradually turn into something less sharp and will be replaced by the enthusiasm I have for life. Off to work I go, HiHo.
Zelda

I’ve often wanted to start a forum for Emotional Issues because it’s such a breath of fresh air when we can relate to another woman’s emotional journey through life.

Your relationship with your mother definitely struck a chord with me, Zelda. Mine, too, became my worst enemy in life and has tried to create nothing but havoc in my world. I know it comes from her own pain, unconsciousness, and inability to see the light of her own daughter, but it is a hurt like no other to be hated by your mother. I have fiercely fought back with my own hate and anger, which in these present times I am learning to let go of. Life is too short and precious, and if we do carry anything forward after death I certainly don’t want it to be that!

I isolated myself pretty radically too for many years (got a hellava lot of sewing and gardening done though – lol) and it feels so good to be back amongst the living. I am glad you have found us.

Christine

Granolamom's uplifting, encouraging posts...she is so strong and is such a comfort to so many young moms. Louise, you amaze and inspire me and give me hope that I won't have to give up my love of gardening, after all. This thing has threatening to paralyze me but I see you moving through and doing more than I even conceive of. Zelda, you are deep and complex and will be a powerful force as time helps you heal and find your feet again. Please don't let the personal shortcomings of others cause you grief right now. I don't think that is being selfish, just self-sustaining, self-protecting. I used to take on the pain of others, now I have to be a bit more careful as my own burdens are sufficiently weighty right now and cry for my attention. That is why I am here. It is so nurturing to be around those on common ground.

I am getting inspiration from all of you plus so many others here. Wish I could name them all, they are such beautiful spirits. Kit

right back at ya, kit
I enjoy reading your posts as well. so gentle and soothing...

its like we're all taking turns mothering each other, or being the supportive sister or dear friend. it feels good to help others and coming here definitely gets me through my 'down days'.

It's been a while since I chimed in but I read the posts daily. This place continues to be my lifeline. Several among us -- all of us in her own way -- are good writers to the point of eloquence and this comes only when you get to that place in yourself where there's no more pretending. I cherish all this wisdom. I don't contribute more because I'm not following our program very closely and feel I should be doing that before saying much! I do work on the posture all the time and rest more and have taken many good ideas about clothing.

Mothers, yes. I am sixty and my mother died 3 years ago. I cannot say I was hated by my mother but my role in both my parents' eyes was to reflect well on them and certainly to not embarass them. Since I did not succeed in either of these things from their point of view, there were many years of estrangement. Thankfully that did improve but there were never comfortable relationships in my family. Now that the parents are gone, my sister and I are finally free to reflect together on all these matters, and our friendship at this late time in our lives, in spite of the great differences between us, is a wonderful surprise and such a treasure.

I realized in the last months of my mother's life that I was dealing with a girl rather than a woman. She was simply arrested in her emotional and spiritual development and never had a chance, in the system and the marriage in which she lived her life, to connect with and give expression to her deeper self.

I think that many of us who come here have launched out on our own to find something deeper. And we are treating our condition of prolapse as we have treated everything else in our lives, as a way to examine our lives and to grow spiritually and to accept the challenges that life brings. Christine's leadership is key in this outlook and deeply appreciated.

One thing I do have to say that's site-specific -- I'm enjoying the Bliss Balm quite a bit, am using it as a daily lubricant.

Many thanks to you all.

Ellen

P.S. Since developing my prolapse and learning about it from this site and Saving the Whole Woman, I now realize that my mother suffered from cystocele and rectocele in her last years, following a hysterectomy when she was nearly 80. If the doctors understood what had happened to her to so complicate elimination for her, they never said, and we never connected it to the hysterectomy. The horrors she suffered.

So you are from Oz nice to know I have a friend Iam from Qld. You are such a strong person and you have given me so much good advice..thank you.I have just been reading all these post You are all so good with words and so much help to one another...I feel in my heart but unable to put pen to paper like many of you.I feel for the young mums with little ones and their whole life ahead of them....There must be a way around this...so many women after childbirth end up with prolapses...

Hi Zelda

Hmm, when you tell us all that people stuff it makes me realise that you have a right to be in the head and heart space you are in at the moment. You do have a lot of stuff staring you down.

Just do it in baby steps, a bit at a time. Being stuck with a property on the market can be so frustrating but I am sure that it will sell. Then that big barrier will just fall away. It will all be OK in the end. Ya just gotta get there in one piece.

Re your comment about the house you will buy. I have been watching my 95 year old mother becoming less and less steady on her legs over the last fifteen years, now using a zimmer frame all the time for walking. Mum has been living at a Frail Aged Lodge for the past ten years. Previous to that she lived for about 15 years in a self-contained home unit in a Senior Citizens Village that was set up for disabled access. The Village was on a fairly level site which had some steps between upper and lower levels, but also had ramps for access to all areas. Mum was using a walker for additional stability even when she was at the Village, probably for four years.

I recently saw her sister who is 87. I was watching her sister making her way down the three steps at her daughter's home onto lawn, wearing dress shoes with low heels. She had no hand rail and does not use a stick or frame. Quite a remarkable feat. I realised some time afterwards that my aunt and uncle had built an extension onto their home about 25 years ago. The house had then become split level, with a total of six steps down to the new family room on the inside and about ten steps out in the garden down to the pool area. At the time I thought it was unwise in their sixties to be building a second level to their house as it would make it less accessible as they aged.

How wrong could I have been?? I think these steps inside the house, and outside as well, have given these two elderly people a built-in exercise machine to keep them using all those leg and pelvic muscles that we need to keep our pelvis stable and keep us balanced and mobile as we get older. Even though the prevailing wisdom seems to be to eliminate stairs as we get older, and it is a pain sometimes when you are at the bottom and need to get to the top, it is enforced exercise of a very healthy kind.

Perhaps it is better to have split levels and safe steps with solid handrails for everyday exercise but have a backup ramp or lifting mechanism for dealing with heavy loads and times when injury or other disability precludes using the stairs.

What does everybody think about this latest whacky theory of mine?

Cheers

Louise

If you don't use it you lose it.

I have a number of aged people in my life - thankfully- and have deduced the very same things. Those that engage in life and continue to challenge their minds and bodies do way better in old age than the ones that sit down and turn on the boob tube (sorry boobs).

But how does one learn to use a broken thing properly ? I can't seem to function without help at my elbow at all times. The life I have created demands that I attend it. I can't seem to find a magic wand or a way to change my life quickly enough. My desperation frightens me. I seem to leap back and forth. Shut-down and Denial/Panic and Exhaustion. How can I find center ? I suppose I need to start meditating again and find my breath and all that lovely stuff. I struggle with stillness because I hear a meter ticking the cost of what it takes to stay afloat. I feel so slow, so behind, so desperate for income that I'm really only still for the moments before I pass out from fatigue at the end of the day. I WANT MY BALANCE BACK ! I've never lost it like this.
Your right - baby steps. My Dad said to me at the top of my first black diamond trail - " Don't sweat it ! You're skiing the whole mountain at one time, when you just need to do it turn by turn." Even at that young age I think I knew what a metaphor it was and I think it's always been one of my biggest challenges. Sometimes I just "Think" too damn much. Thanks for all the gentle prompts towards center.
Zelda

Louise,

I think steps are a great way to exercise. I live in an old house 1830 and I have a full flight of steps. I often use my steps to do some odd foot work and it's remarkable how much it takes out of me! I've lived in this house 32 years and I used to take the steps three at a time up and two at a time down, but now with prolapse and a new diagnosis of arthritis, I'm good to go one at a time. If anyone is interested in step exercises...

As for mothers...I appreciate the stories. On a windy April day in Santa Fe a few years ago, while my mother was burying my father in what amounted to a gopher hole in the back yard, she said to me, "I never liked you; I never thought you were worth knowing."

She consequently moved to Indiana around the corner from my house and quickly took up with another family who stripped her of the rest of her life. When my brother got power of attorney, he finished her off stealing everything she owned from her beautiful homes complete with museum art collections down to her wedding band and her underwear, dumped her stark naked in a nursing home and fled.

After seeking his permission to see my own mother, I visit her frequently and wonder how it all could have been different. I used to blame myself, but realize that there was nothing I could have done. You can't make somebody like you no matter how hard you try.

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

Hey Zelda, steady down. It is very frustrating when Ms Independent needs help. Firstly because it is rarely there when you need it. Secondly because it hurts and shames so much having to ask for it. Thirdly, it reduces your feelings of autonomy and competence.

Why is it wrong to need help for a period of time??? Crutches are just that, built for temporary help when you need it. You will be able to throw them away later. And you need the help now girl, so just use it, wherever you can get it. You have the rest of your life to give back to others. And now is the time to call in those favours owing to you, even if it just a human ear with well-sealed lips, to hear your troubles and help you with reality checks.

Medication may be helpful too, as you seem to be having quite a few way out thoughts coming thick and fast, maybe to do with others' perceptions of you (How do you know what they think?), and your own competence (You sound pretty damned competent to me!). Check it out with your doctor.

((((Hugs))))

Louise

Judy --

It is painful to hear how very disfunctional and confused our families are. I'm sorry you've had such family grief and know it is a deep sorrow. You have let it teach you compassion and that is what we are all here to learn. You're making a huge contribution to humanity by doing that, I believe.

Ellen

Dear Judy,

Your story took my breath away. Then I breathed deeply hearing of yet another woman who has carried such a burden.

I remembered myself buying a one-day, round-trip ticket, climbing onto an airplane with a basketful of home-grown, heirloom tomatoes, freshly ground flour and all the fixings for a beautiful, healthy lunch with my mother. Only to have her turn up her nose and ask with unmistakable body language, how dare I darken her doorstep! Then she proceeds to tell the world that I am the one who rejects her. To be that close to absolute treachery is the most emotionally incapacitating thing in the world and makes you just want to slit your wrists.

I have so much hope for wholewoman. It should reach far beyond prolapse – to lend every kind of support to women in need.

Much love,

Christine

Christine said "I have so much hope for wholewoman. It should reach far beyond prolapse – to lend every kind of support to women in need."

Christine, it already does. There is such healing power here, and it is certainly not all aimed towards the physical. It is an all-encompassing power that led me to write "We Give Wholly to the World." I knew that the words were not just about organs. I have only been here a few short weeks but even I can feel the tremendous momentum that is brewing here. Some of the posts of the last few days have been so heart-wrenchingly unshielded and bare. As Zelda would say-- naked. Here, no one is left to lie alone in their aloneness. The compassion seems to leap from the replies to shield the hearts of the hurting. There is goodness and magic and sisterly communion here. This forum that your son insisted that you have seems now to possess its own soul and heartbeat...a complex spirit encompassing and serving all who seek to regain their wholeness through their honesty. Kit

Christine, Ellen and Kit,

I think the word is communion that we all share here. It's an important word and a word that means something different to each one of us which makes it all the richer.

After my nightmare seven year menopause, the cherry on the cake was "Congratulations, you have balls!" Tucked not too spifily inside me are my matching prolapses - one front one rear - and I have come to think of them as my balls. I hope that's not offensive to anyone; to me it's hilarious and so well placed!

When I stumbled onto this site, all the stale, monsters of my nightmare menopause seemed to dissipate with every loving note I've read. It made me angry enough to really do something about it. I stopped, looked and listened, and finally accepted the care, the compassion, the interest, the joy, the grief, the prayers here. I accepted my problem and began to laugh. It's been like uncovering someone, shovel by shovel, caught in an avalanche of desperation. I thank you all so much.

For all those wondering if it ever gets any better, yes, yes, and yes again. Gmom is absolutely right. Read and re-read what she says. It's all true!

As far as men go, they're about as supportive as quicksand. They want us to be happy, and when we're not they want to fix it. Some men are better at fixing than others. Mine just clams up and blames my unhappiness on me. He hasn't a clue I have prolapses. I've never even thought to tell him. He would want to fix it, and there would be no explaining. So, best plan is silence. That's why this site is so important to me. Here I can be a person.

As for mothers...If one of my daughters arrived at my house with homegrown tomatoes and freshly ground flour, I'd jump for joy. Those are the ingredients to real love and real sharing. I'm sorry your mother treated you like this. You offered your mother the treats of your world and she turned away. My mother did the same with my daughters. I have three, and her words were, "I never liked girls."

Out of sorrow, Christine, you have given ALL of us life, joy, communion, and there is not a single one of us who does not appreciate the lifeline. A prophet in his own home...

God bless,

Judy

Change what you can change; be happy with what you cannot.

Thanks for all your wonderful thoughts and words, Judy, and....you are so-o-o-o funny!

HUGS!!

Christine

What a precious thread this is! Thank you so much, Kit, and all the women who write these healing words. I certainly hope Denise got what she needed from her original post and thank you all once again for being here!

Christine

Thanks Judy, for saying all this. I wouldn't know where to start to say the same thing. I find it interesting that each of us can turn up on any day and be either needy of help or on top of the things that bother us and rolling up our sleeves to encourage, hug and help each other along.

Maybe it is a good thing that we get balls just when we really need them! If we had them all along we would be far more difficult and dangerous to deal with! I know there are women who get a prolapse diagnosis when they are really young, and that's very tough to handle. I think the balls we now have are not the prolapse balls per se, but the power we get in dealing with them ourselves.

Actually I suspect I did have prolapses before I was 30, and maybe the makings of my rectocele back in childhood, from constipation. Thankfully I got through that without the intervention of a doctor. I think that now, with Wholewoman available to all, teenagers with possible prolapse-related urinary incontinence and constipation can be treated differently, and avoid the adult problems to a great degree.

Somehow, it is the diagnosis that is loaded with negative connotations and threat of major surgery that is upsetting, not the fact that our pelvic organs are shifting downwards bit by bit. Before prolapse diagnosis it was just a lowish cervix, childhood and teenage stress incontinence, and plain old constipation.

Cheers

Louise

I have so missed this site. Our computer decided to implode at a time when we are very short of cash and we have had to buy a brand all singing and dancing new one as my partner needs it for work.

I too Zelda in some of my darkest moments have found myself envying people in wheelchairs thinking at least they can carry their children on their laps and move around- my youngest daughter is 16 months old and I so miss picking her up and cuddling her while walking around. I laugh to myself as reading that someone else has had this thought is reassuring!

I have always considered myself as a strong woman, both physically and emotionally and having POP has struck at my core, my identity. I am daily trying to find my handle on it, take control of my life as it is now and move on. These days are becoming more and more and yes I have my dark days again, but I am beginning to trust my body and to know that
these bad days will pass and I will have good days again and that hopefully the good days will eventually outnumber the bad ones.

Positive thinking is the way forward and I have personally found can really affect how my body is feeling. I have felt the affects of having both positive and negative thoughts and constantly find it amazing how my body responds to these. It is almost like if I say to myself for example, ooh you did quite a lot of walking today you are going to feel real bad tomorow, I do, but if I turn this around and say you are going to feel great for doing some exercise than I do! Of course this can be dependent on certain things like whether I am premenstrual or not but you know what I mean. The power of the mind in healing the body is without question a reality- you only have to look at the drug trials run by the pharmaceutical companies and the results of those who took placebos versus those who took the actual drug. I completely agree about daily mantras and I am starting to make this a part of my life. It may sound silly but I have just read The Alchemist and found it truly enlightening. Anything that speaks to your spiritual self can only help to heal your whole self.

My mother is continually pushing the surgery option as the way to go and I almost feel like she is now blaming me for how the POP can make me feel because I am not going down the surgery route and that I would be 'right as rain' if I did. I need her support rather than her unspoken anger.

Thank you to all for your guidance, understanding support and sharing. Thank you Christine for being the shining beacon in the darkness.

Frankie x

That it was what I "should do too". Well, about a month after she had it, which by the way was unbelievable to watch her recover from, she was carrying mine and my sister's 15 lbs. children around and "something" just wasn't right. She never does say anything about it anymore. It's pretty much the elephant in the room. Don't ask, don't tell.

So, do what you want and what you believe is best for you, not your mother. You have to deal with your own choices.

Thanks Mom30. Yes you are right, we have to deal with our own choices and this forum has helped me confirm my own choice. There is this belief amongst so many- other members of my family, friends- that surgery is the cure and the best way to deal with prolapses. I have heard so many stories of women who have had surgery and they are 'absolutely fine'. Who knows if this will still be the case 10-20 years from now. Of course if there was a viable surgery alternative, I would seriously consider it but there isn't.

By the way have started oseopathy and my osteopath has already looked at the website and is going to order the book. I llove this grassroots campaign. She confirmed that the posture was absolutely the right way and also said that if your core muscles, are weak, (which mine are) that this could put a lot of strain on your sacrum, spine, buttocks, etc, etc. So get working those core muscles everyone! Firebreathing is really helping me.

She also told me that fascia responds very well to water, and can heal it to a certain extent. Out with my latte, in with a cup of warm water!

Frankie x

Hi

i remember an earlier thread on this subject from a few months ago and there was a bit of a consensus that things tightened up and pulled up as far as i remember. Plus we were discussing how some felt varying degrees of trepidation and fear around sex when our prolapses appeared or got worse. Again far as i remember no-one said it made things worse..Plus i reckoned at the end of the day men can't really differenciate between a regular issue vagina and one that's shape- shifted a little... Makes sense really as it basically feel's like a shapless blut plaible soft sponge and it takes time and close enough examination to differenciate it's different boundaries even for us doesn't it.

I wonder do older men ever think about their dropped bit's (testicles) and get pissed / mourn that things aren't half as pert as they were back in the day. Probably not. But hey a lot more openly visible than our 'cele's don't you think?

Oh and one lady suggested that Zelda might think of getting some med's to help here deal with racing thought's etc.. and i know she mean's it from the right place but many of these med's have side effect's /dependancy issues etc.. and there are wonderfull herbal approach's - from the good old stalworth of chammomile tea to a stronger concoction made up by a herbalist. (oh and check for contraincations with any other med's / allergies).

Best wishes

anne-helen

Unfortunately there isn't. I think we - as a society - often think that emotional distress is a malady. I think of it more as a process, or a territory we can move through and experience without getting stuck. Or maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones who doesn't get stuck... I guess I think being frightened of our dark sides is part of what Keeps us stuck. I think when we face our fears - maybe even throw ourselves AT our fears and call the bluff, is when we can sort through the fact and fiction with real success.

The only problem in life is thinking there shouldn't be any problems ?

I think all the diving down has in the end helped me let go of some of the more irrational fears and angers. But that's just me. Hope I haven't rocked anyone's boat or made anyone feel worse with my recent ranting, as it has occurred to me that some of us struggle with our boundaries because - partly - of How much we share... so my humble apologies if I've done so.
Zelda

Hi ladies

That might have been me suggesting that medication may help. I did suggest it to Zelda in the context of the post I was replying to, where she mentioned it as a possibility. In doing that I was assuming that some of the things she was experiencing were being perceived by her as being a bit out there, and she was feeling a bit out of her depth.

I wasn't suggesting that medication is *the* answer for dealing with these difficulties, but that it was a possibility, among all the other weapons she could pull out.

My own experience is that anti-depressants did have a part in my own treatment for depression, giving me a bit of a break from myself for a while, so I could clarify what the problems were that I was having difficulty dealing with, but I was very glad to kiss them goodbye when it became clear that they were not fixing me up. I know of other people for whom longterm antidepressants are literally a means of allowing them to lead a normal life, and yet others who have found them far from useful at all.

They are just another possibility, another crutch. Though I would not be happy taking them again because I didn't ultimately get much benefit from them, I can see that they can have a part to play in helping people find their feet again during very difficult times. Sorry if this is not a politically correct opinion, but it's what I think. No offence taken. :-)

Cheers

Louise

Pharmaceuticals have their place. Personally I think antidepressants are over-prescribed, but when real and pathological mental illness is present no form of treatment should be ruled out. There is no way we can discern on a forum whether someone is dangerously depressed and so we should not discourage anyone from seeking help from the psychiatric profession, although we can and should also discuss alternative courses. The majority of unhappy people can treat their "depression" with exercise, diet, and attitude adjustments, but again, we are not qualified to discern normal depressive reaction to news of prolapse from serious psychiatric illness. A seriously depressed or bipolar person indeed may need "pills" to save their life or be able to function.

Hi

just wanted to say i'm not anti all psych med's and agree that they definately have their place with bi-polar, schizophrenia etc.. Just i suppose amongst our group when we get down over this, get anxious or sad that i reckon it's a normal process for many of us to have gone through and that we mostly seem to work through it and in the meantime there are a lot of holistic rememdies that are helpfull.#

Oh no i've said the word "holistic". if i add in "quantam" and "healing" i'll have set off the quackwatch alarm bell's : )

Best wishes

Anne-helen