Waiting for a pessary with burning pain

Hi Km,

Yes, it makes sense - now comes the work of stabilizing your symptoms. The pelvic interior is changed radically with hysterectomy and severe prolapse is the very common result.

I hope the pessary gives you great relief. I have a video in Christine's Kitchen on making red clover salve, which I find helpful for the vulva area. There is also the V2 supporter (google where to buy it), which offers external support.

We are encouraging post-hysterectomy women to try this postural work, as you still need to hold your bladder and intestines forward, as in normal anatomy. Subsequent surgery often further destabilizes the system.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Gosh...I would be careful of the tampon. These tissues are often so thin and friable (mine certainly are at this point). Definitely soak it in oil first and yes, I think it will probably be difficult to remove. If you can ease the irritation with your salve (which should be fine vaginally) perhaps you can forego the tampon altogether (?)

Here's another idea. I'm glad to finally see this single ball design (usually there are two "ben-wa" balls) because I have often wondered if such a thing might help replace the function of the cervix.

My thought is that such a ball placed high in your vagina (the upper vagina is larger than the lower) might ease pressure on the lower walls. This combined with the posture, might even help weight everything forward into a more natural configuration. I would still use lubrication and it looks like it might be much less irritating and much easier to remove.

Christine

Sorry for the bit of a contradiction, KM. I was referring to the your symptoms making sense, not the tampon. :)

Hi Christine,I bought some of these to try,and OMG within a few minutes of inserting, which was ok at first , then they fell out PLOP and pulled some of me with them.Ohhh sooo uncomfortable after that.Couldn't bring myself to try them again,kept them for ages, thrown out now lol.
Still they may work for others.....

KM, I think swimming, sunning, and sauna would all be wonderful for you. I just love hearing your positive attitude, which tells me you will likely learn to live well with your condition. Be very gentle with yourself and understand that you are in very good company - meaning millions and millions of women living with post-hysterectomy syndromes. We are very hopeful you will be OK with the help of the Whole Woman work.

Hi kmscott

I hav just returned from a week in sunny Cyprus. Swam every day and felt great for it. Also tried a bit of walking - not so sure about that so am posting a query on another thread. Had third degree rectocele since start of the year, and am at the stage of re-reading the book as lots doesn't sink in first time. Also I do the DVD beginners workout and fire-breathing most days. The Wholewoman site has been invaluable in practical and emotional help - and I be there will be a time before long when you start sharing your positive experiences and help others out.
Enjoy the cruise!

Getting a pessary was the best thing I could have ever done..It took 3 fits but I have had it for over 6 months and I can have a life again..No pressure and I am able to resume a wonderful life..I waited too long because I was afraid to do it..Don't hesitate! My only words of advise are that you go to a uro/gyn who specializes in pessaries..Mine was patient and understanding and calmed my fears..I go every 3 months to get it cleaned..I just can't put it in or take it out myself..too difficult..He says it is a perfect fit!!!Hope this helps someone..

Hi KMScott

I am thinking, "Why?"

What is it that you are doing now, and were doing before, that you weren't doing during the cruise?

Or what are you not doing now, and before you went, that you were doing on your holiday?

Is it your everyday work that aggravates your POP?

Hi KMScott

When you said you were sitting on a donut cushion and that you are having trouble sitting and walking I wondered if you might have pudendal nerve neuropathy. A couple of years ago I went to a workshop on this condition and how it is treated and managed. There is a website, www.tipna.org, where you can find out more about it. It mostly occurs in women post-hysterectomy and seems to be caused by the pudendal nerve being stretched, possibly as a result of the surgery, and as a result, meeting resistance as it passes between two muscles, instead of just weaving its way through.

Here is a community forum where you can meet with others who share possible solutions and stories, http://www.pudendalhope.info/forum/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=9b1d86321d05330... .

Please don't take this as diagnosis. I am not qualified to do that. Just thought you might want to check it out.

Louise

Yes.

I am wondering, if there is still a little risk with topical oestrogen, why don't they put a bit of progesterone in it, to make it that bit safer? This is my question from a not-medically-trained perspective.

I think it has to be because it's been proclaimed all along that vaginal estrogen cream is not absorbed into general circulation. The truth is, there is very good science on the matter and e-cream most certainly is absorbed easily and thoroughly through the vaginal wall.

Hi KMScott

My doctor wants me to use oestrogen cream before I have my next PAP smear. She suggested 2 to 3 months. I wouldn't like to use it for that long. What do you think I could get away with, to make my cervix nice and juicy for the doctor? The idea is to plump up my cervix so they can collect more cells. The last smear was "atopic" (no big surprise there, 2 1/2 years after menopause) and they couldn't collect enough.

Sounds like you are going well.

Louise

KMScott, sorry to be so persistent, but how long after you started using the oestrogen cream do you think it took for your vagina to be 'in good shape'. Is it going to take 5 weeks or did it start getting better a few days after starting?

I know it is normally a 'forever' move. I am not doing this for me, but for the person collecting the smear. I have no intention at this stage of continuing to use the oestrogen pessaries after the next PAP smear, but I am very glad that you have found a way of helping your vagina along.

Louise

After weeks and weeks of burning pain within and at the entry of my vagina due to rectocele rubbing I finally in desperation decided to use Weleda baby cream. Not knowing if I was going to make things worse I used it externally where all the pain was and internally as lightly as I could.
I applied it all the way forward to the entry point of the urethra. I figured if it is used on baby girls I could use it too! So, far I have had many days free of surface friction pain.
I read that any vegetable cream would work, but I chose baby cream. I don't think we have to search for something expensive, I happened to have the Weleda on hand. Perhaps any cream from the infant dept at a grocery store designed for babies could work.
I'm every day astonished at how much I don't know about taking care of my adult female pelvic region.
Daphne

This is interesting and confusing. I am on Estrace, which I thought was bioidentical. Now I'm wondering, because I am told to use it only at
1 gram 3 times a week AND make sure I get a pap test every year.
Hmmm.
Daphne

You know, when we have our babies we have birthing training, help from our doctors and nurses; other mothers seem to beam in on us with advice for everything from baby wakefulness in the newborn to potty training and earaches.
I was told when I was 35 by my gynecologist that I was perimenopausal and that I should lose some weight which might improve my melancholy. Then she gave me an Rx for an antidepressant. And of course, I should do megakegels forever.
Menopause and POP are so lonely. Recently I spent some time down the coast of Maine (300+ miles driving) for my husband's medical care. In the motel breakfast room one morning I looked over all the women there and thought about shouting "Prolapse, Prolapse, Prolapse" to see if I would get any reaction at all; however, I didn't feel like embarassing myself; all I could really think about was whether or not my body would cooperate with a BM on this long road trip.
It finally did cooperate (3 times)! I had eaten more fiber than usual, practiced WW posture wherever possible, figured out fire-breathing and while porch-sitting watching the sun go down and while reading in bed I used the posture I saw Christine do in the video.
As for 30 year olds in slings choosing elective pelvic surgery, I am convinced that not only is prolapse epidemic, so is the dire condition of women's pelvic care.
Daphne

Yes Daphne, the world is nuts and sometimes I believe the only sane people are on this site. Although I first came here almost a year and a half ago, suddenly in the last few weeks I find myself drawn back here time and time again, looking for strength. And I always find it.

Recently I attended an exercise class at the urging of a friend who was newly certified to teach it. There were any number of moves in the routine that were absolute killers of pelvic support. I just wanted to stand up and scream to all these women, "how many of you can actually DO this move without your insides feeling like they're about to explode??" I have not been back, and I'm planning for the day when I can sit down with my friend and explain why. But so far, she has not even asked.

I thank all of my sisters on this forum, for your honesty and for just being there. And I thank Christine from the bottom of my heart.

Hi KMScott

In Australia I think the standard for PAP smears is any sexually active woman under the age of 65 should have one every two years, or yearly if abnormal cells are found. After that it is not so important because cervical cancer is so slow growing that, if it does appear, it is unlikely to cause the woman's demise before she dies of old age. So, only another 7 maximum for me! thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

I'm 55 and was expecting to get called for a smear test this year (having always previously been checked every 3 years). However I didn't get called and when I enquired, it seems that, here in the UK (or at least in my part of the UK), if you are over 50 you only have one every 5 years! Presumably this is a cost based decision as they are provided free on the NHS. However I imagine (hope) they wouldn't deliberately endanger older women's health, so they must really believe that the benefits of more frequent tests don't outweigh the cost.
I'd be interested to see if the cervical cancer statistics are much worse here in the UK or whether less frequent checking is just as effective.

Tintagel - I am in the US and below is a link from the National Cancer Institute. Don't know if you can click right on this, or if you have to copy and paste.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Detection/Pap-test

Hi Surviving60
Thank you, I had a look and also did some more delving online to see what guidelines other countries follow - there seem to be various views on the subject, when to start testing, finish testing and how frequently. My 25 year old daughter had her first test done recently, but other countries seem to recommend starting at 20. I doublechecked on the British NHS site and it is definitely 5 yearly for the over 50s here, though I expect it is possible to have one done sooner if you go to the GP and ask - perhaps I should, to be on the safe side.

Tintagel, you are conscientious about your health and I do admire that. I am 61 and just had a PAP test 3 years ago, after I'm ashamed to admit how many years of going without! I've never even had a diagnosis of my POP although I know it involves at least two organs, if not three. My general practitioner performed said PAP test, and all she had to say when she stuck a hand in there was "wow, have you been going to the bathroom a lot lately?" - ha ha!

... so how did you reply? ;-)

Thank you kmscott!
I like the idea of use every night and will follow up with another pap test next year (just had one - negative yeah!)
D.

How did I answer when she asked if I'd been going to the bathroom alot.....well, this was 3 years ago and I was only just coming into a realization of my problem. Although in retrospect I had been noticing various things for years, at that point I still hadn't give it a name or really paid it a great deal of attention. I think I said, "well......not really.....". Funny thing, she didn't pursue the discussion at all.

It was not until over a year and a half after that, that things started to escalate for me, and I ended up finding Whole Woman. I am self-diagnosed at a Stage 2 and hoping to keep it that way. But I guess I'm a little overdue to see the doc.....

H Surviving60
No, I'm not really diligent, just easily unnerved and a worrier! When I saw kmscott had written: "Everyone should get a pap test each year if you are over 50" and I knew I was on a 5 year list, I thought oh dear, perhaps I should do something about this. Until then I'd been pleased I didn't have to go for another couple of years! I avoid going to the doctors at all if I can - my first question here a few months ago was did I really need to get a GP's diagnosis of my POP. - and with hindsight, I didn't really, I could have diagnosed myself much more accurately by reading Christine's book. Must work on worrying less!
Tintagel

Hi- this is my first comment so here goes- Had complete hysterectomy about 20 years ago, to fix uterine prolapse. Two years later had to have my bladder "tied" to fix that. Now, I have another bulge, the past 6 or 8 months, thinking it maybe a rectocele--(have Dr. appmt. this week to get his diagnosis.) Have itching & burning, use light film of vaseline or Vagisil cream to help this. What are the options, other than surgery, which I definitely do not want. Help??

Hi mlou and welcome. With your surgical history, it is hard to say whether or not you would be able to stabilize your rectocele with the postural suggestions we can make here. If the rectocele is not too low down, a pessary might have some effect, though I can’t speculate there. Something you could ask the doc, maybe. The itching and burning might be relieved by Christine’s favorite remedy, raw local honey, if what you’re using now isn’t helping as much as you would like.

Please do read up on the Whole Woman posture, but pay special attention to the information on the Hysterectomy tab, because it explains why your results may be less than those of someone who has a uterus and has not already had repairs done. Post-hyst women sometimes get back pain from the posture. But if you can learn it, and do it, it might help you and it will also provide a benefit for your hips. - Surviving60

Still not sure if am doing the firebreathing exercise correctly--standing in the first position, when inhaling do I maintain this same position. When exhaling do I change the position, ie
drop my buttocks slightly,as shown in the second picture in the WW Book.

As you inhale, the belly is expanding and butt is sticking up (lumbar curve is maximized). When you exhale, that's when you pull navel to spine, and your butt is tucked. It creates a vacuum that helps pull the organs up and forward. Hope that makes sense. I have heard that the Third Wheel yoga video (currently available for pre-order) has the best footage on firebreathing and nauli. FB is also covered on the other video's, First Aid for Prolapse and the First Wheel. - Surviving

Thanks so much for your information, I've been doing it right, but just needed some confirmation I guess. Thanks again--

Yep - I sure do know that feeling!

I think I've been a bit out of touch with my body, taking its wonderful complexity for granted; it was certainly shocking feeling a bulge PV a few months ago. I'm learning to question the advice given me by doctors, and trying to take charge of my health & body myself, rather than giving it over to Big Pharma. etc.
So with encouragement from my Naturopath daughter , and Christine's WW book, her insight into posture and recovery, and my decision to do the exercises, change the way I sit & stand, & do the simple exercises, I feel fortunate .
I'm 75 , And til recently accepted without question the advice given me by various doctors, as if my body wasn't MY responsibility too. I wont take Vagifem so a pessary can be fitted, in fact I'm seeing if I can avoid medical intervention using Christine's techniques.
Hysterectomy 25 years ago ("you dont want to keep that old bag any more") Thanks doc.
And a false hip; but I'm finding the WW. posture & exercises helpful for the rest of the big joints. I find bending over to 'tie my shoe' can slip the old cystocele back into place sometimes.
To all you dear sisters, I think we are warriors when we take our well-being into OUR hands; it's been a not-so-easy path for me, but with beacons of light along the way. Thank you to Christine, Louise, my strong daughter, and to you the many courageous women sharing this forum with support and advice.

Hi Pelly and welcome - glad that you found your way here. Taking back your body after years of letting the docs have their way with you can be a very joyous thing. Being post-hyst adds to the challenge but there is certainly no better path than this one for you. Have you checked out Christine's hips project? It's her next book coming out. Please keep in close touch here as you make your way on this journey. It is a wonderful place for helping you stay motivated and chart your progress. - Surviving

Hi everyone,
As ever - I'm so impressed by how supportive and helpful the WW community is. Welcome Pelly and mlou.

I just wanted to reiterate what Surviving60 has already mentioned in this post - that in the past Christine has suggested honey as a safe natural soothing ointment which can be used in the vaginal canal. Might be worth giving this a go.

Also, kmscott66 - re pessary. There's a great section in the 'saving the ww' book about pessaries. Christine has pointed out that pessaries usually 'flip over' so they lie vertically in the vaginal passage - and appear to suit women with cystocele most. There are identifiable disadvantages of using pessaries eg they can contribute to keeping the vaginal passageway open or widening the vaginal passage. The vaginal passage is meant to be a closed passage most of the time. That book is such a font of information!

Re driving: I think driving may well contribute to many women's prolapse issues. Check that you are not having to stretch to reach the pedals. If you are then you will be tucking the tail-bone under and squashing the abdomen and pushing the pelvic organs back. I think this applies particularly to short women, where the car seat to pedal distance is incorrect/ too far for them. For women afected by this there are several things that can help: A new car that suits you better! If that's not poss. then some lower back support in the driving seat using things like cuchions, foam, back support... I also think driving can 'fix'your position and if you're driving for hours - again it's just not that healthy. However the reality is sometimes needs must.

Best wishes to all,
xwholewomanuk