3rd degree prolapse

Hi Nervous,

Hope you don't mind that I moved your topic to this forum.

Well, it is a situation worth contemplating, for sure. The fallacy is that hysterectomy will fix the problem. In reality, the uterus forms a hub of connective tissue keeping all the pelvic organs in place - prolapsed or not. At 42 years of age you will likely see stark changes in many bodily systems post-hysterectomy. We could go on and on about what those might be, but the most likely side effects of hysterectomy (all forms) are urinary incontinence and recurring prolapse - this time of the bowel and bladder. Subsequent surgeries often make matters worse rather than better.

The other thing to consider is that your uterus is not going to fall out. We’ve never heard of a woman with total vaginal prolapse where a large sack hangs out of the vagina containing the bladder, uterus and rectum - although there are references to such a possibility in the medical literature. The cervix seems to prolapse to the vaginal opening or a little past and never goes further in most women.

This can be stabilized and improved by all the things I have described in my book, Saving the Whole Woman. In two weeks my DVD, First Aid for Prolapse, will be on sale, in which there are new and revolutionary exercises for moving the organs forward.

I also have primary uterine prolapse. I have gone through menopause and while my uterus has shrunk it has also pulled well inside. I spent most of my forties in agony dealing with my prolapse (it took over a decade to understand what to do about it) and now thank my lucky stars I have the possibility of living actively into old age free of the litany of symptoms that plague post-hysterectomy women.

You might take a look at past posts by “Goldfinch”. She also has severe UP and has written about how much improvement she has experienced with this work - although it took about a year to realize.

Wishing you well,

Christine

I want to encourage you to get all the information you can, and explore healing without surgery. I came here 3 years ago, scared and feeling out of control. Today, I am more active and fit than ever and the condition is totally manageable. I am totally indebted to Christine for the information that this can be managed without surgery. I have seen women think that surgery is the answer, only to find that repeat surgeries are necessary, and that the condition gets more unmanageable than ever. What you have now on your side is that your anatomy is in tact. Once you've had surgery, you can't go back. So, get all the facts first. Of course, ultimately, we all make our own decisions. Hope you stay here and learn about all that is possible.

hi nervous

my feeling is always that i will try everything that won't do any harm first before i go down a route that even has a slight chance of causing problems.
i had a grade 3 cystocele and rectocele, and now they are most of the time barely noticeable, and definately liveable. i have had to make changes to my diet and to my limits, but they are definately worth it, and better for my overall health.

i also tried a lot of "alternative" therapies like accupuncture and homeopathy in addition to Christine's work, which also really helped. I haven't even started Christine's exercise work other than lots of plies, or the firebreathing, so i feel certain that even two years on i'll have even more improvement when i do.

i absolutely know how hard living with this can be, but i also know what amazing changes can happen through this work. it's scary and links in with so many feelings about our bodies and our identities as a woman. but it's things i've worked through, and this is a wonderful, supportive place to do that.

christine mentions in her book about sea sponges, a natural alternative to a pessary that can help to support the organs. i don't how they'd work for a uterine prolapses, but perhaps a search on sponges in the search box would give others' experiences.

Hi Nervous

I too escaped the hysterectomy, 4 1/2 years ago, and am going fine now. Have a look at www.hers.org, where you can find out all about the results of hysterectomy, and all the information you need to know before you consent to it. It may be a routine procedure for the surgeon who gets paid handsomely for doing it, but it is certainly not straightforward, or easy to recover from, apart from all the negative things that can result from it - much worse than POP.

Cheers

Louise

I was exactly in your shoes a few years ago. My gynecologist told me I "must" have a hysterectomy because things will only worsen with time and it would be easier to go through the surgery while I was young (I was in my late 40s) rather than wait until the uterus "falls all the way out". I told him, "No, you are not going to remove my orgasmer," and to his credit he agreed to fit me with a pessary and not press the issue.

Well last year he retired, and told me my care would continue under his new, young colleague (a woman... which did NOT make me feel better) who was supposedly well trained in prolapse treatment. Oh God, I thought, well trained meaning, up on all the latest surgical techniques no doubt. I dreaded my first meeting with her, and geared up for a big fight. I had all my thoughts in a row on how I would stand my ground no matter what she said, and refuse to let her remove my uterus.

Well I went in last month and she started the exam, saying, "so you have prolapse," and I started immediately with, "Yes, but I am NOT having surgery..." to which she interrupted me saying, "Oh no!! Surgery would be the worst possible thing you could do." I went "Huh?" Ha ha ha ha ha.... she went on to say that removing the uterus will only let all the other stuff collapse into the space left behind, much better to see if we can improve on my pessary. My pessary was fine, but a bit hard to insert and remove so she fitted me with another, better one.

I'm now in menopause and I think my uterus is shrinking up a bit too. No periods certainly makes everything easier to deal with. I won't say it's a piece of cake, but the inconvenience the prolapse gives me is nothing compared to the nightmare scenarios I read about from hysterectomy. My bladder works adequately, if leaky and imperfect. My bowels work adequately, if needing a little help now and then, and sex feels fine other than a bit of vaginal dryness once in a while. WHY would I trade that to risk horrendous pain, complications, malfunctioning bladder and bowel, and a decimation of my sex life including a high chance of painful intercourse and ruination of my orgasms? I'd be CRAZY. Much better the devil I know now than risk a much worse devil.

Oh AnneH, your new doctor sounds wonderful and she is sooo right. One thing the doctors I have seen agree upon is that the other organs will fall when the bladder is repaired...therefore I would need a hysterectomy (remove my uterus) and a bladder repair for my cystocele. I chose, instead, to have my cystocele keep my uterus up for me. I read somewhere (on this Forum I'm sure) that that is what happens. Hmmm..makes me wonder then why some people have two or more prolapses??? Why didn't their first prolapse keep everything at bay? Maybe their prolapses happened all at the same time??

Stick with that doctor AnneH. I wish we all could find one like her.

Regards,
~Mae

I have all three prolapses and I believe it is because gravity and "empty space" is not the only cause, but also weakening of the tissues from whatever cause (episiotomy, straining at stool, genetics, whatever). I do indeed believe they are holding each other inside and that I will never have to worry about the uterus "falling out".

I am hoping that this younger doctor is an indication that medical schools are now teaching that it's best to deal with prolapse conservatively. And maybe even more about pessaries too. I thought the other doctor had given me the best pessary for me, but she did even better.

I have had no luck with my pessary AnneH. It holds my cystocele up fine, but I get cramping after a while which I feel is NOT normal. I think I need a better fit somehow, but I actually feel that managing without a pessary is the best thing for me. Nothing foreign in there works for me, at least in my mind. If I watch my diet, stay in posture at least most of the time, overdose (my doctor loves that term) on Vitamin C and stay lubricated..I am "managing" very well.

This is O.K. Not perfect..but then again, who is perfect?? Like you, I don't want to even think about dealing with more. This is at least O.K....most times better than O.K. Thank goodness I found this site before I did anything drastic!

Warm regards,
~Mae

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Anne, how fortunate that your new doctor is so in tune to non-surgical prolapse treatment, or with the condition of POP in general, even. I can imagine your relief and comfort upon meeting up with such a gem.

That is one of the biggest anxieties I'm laden with at this point, ever getting back into my gp again for a physical/pelvic exam. It took me years just to work up the courage to start going for pelvics again, as it was, but after a couple of consecutive positive visits (accompanied by losing my obesity and gaining health [my 'on top of the world' years]), all hell broke loose (my suddenly worsening POP). As a result: My newfound freakishness + her apparent discomfort ("Can't even see your cervix"; "There's surgery for *that*") = No way, not ever again. My HMO may drop me for non-compliance, but I'll never put my broken-self in that position again. POP's suppose to be common enough, but I do wonder...

...Gosh, I'm sorry - here I meant only to echo Mae's sentiments about how wonderful I think it is that you have such a great doctor, Anne, and I just end up serving so much whine. Anyway, here's to more doctors _all doctors_ one day finding their way, so well, around POP.

♥~Blue

Ahh, my dear friend Blue! So good to hear from my partner here! You could never serve up too much whine..(really meaning wine here, of course!! LOL). POP is getting known out there and is dealt with differently..re AnneH's experience) and mine as well! My gyno ( a female..uncomfortable at first) said, "I make my money with surgery..but I am not going there first." Bless her and the new doctors of the world who are looking at POP differently, thanks to Christine, I do believe! Happy and Healthy New Year to You and Yours Blue...Love, ~Mae

Blue, no whine, it's okay!! I do want to hear about your situation. I can't believe an HMO would drop you for non-compliance but then nothing any of today's big institutions does shocks me anymore, or maybe, I'm shocked now so many times every day I'm becoming numb to it. We are all rapidly becoming slaves to big industry, big government, and big agencies. It's frightening.

Well enough of my own derailing of the subject! Mae, I wear my pessary only occasionally, as I too am usually more comfortable without anything in there. I just use it once in a while when things feel really low and it seems to push everything back up higher, even after I remove it - go figure!

Oh kiddo, wishing much health and happiness too you and yours too, my friend, as you set out on a new spin around the sun! - this one promising to be even brighter by that little one of yours growing! - Wishing you a very grand New Year, Grandmae!

Re pop-wise doctors - You and many others sisters aboard are fortunate to have docs who seem to look at POP from a better perspective, or are at the very least not turned off when facing a case of POP. I am truly happy for each of you, as I can imagine how it must make this condition just that much easier to live with while, at the same time, being able to stay on top with other health checks. Here's to more and more doctors everywhere evolving and being able to expand their restricted vision.

Love and Light,
♥~Blue

I apologize for going off topic; it was just a down day, yesterday, I guess. They come now and again, as I'm sure you know, those days when I wish my system had some sort of 'restore' button. It would serve me well to stop looking back, though, that I know.

As for HMO-dropping, perhaps it could just be a scare tactic to keep us 'members' on the preventative road of routine check-ups.

Thanks again, Anne - Have a good weekend!

♥~Blue

I guess if worse comes to worse comes to worst, and you can't find a sympathetic gyn in Greece, you can always just tell them you're going to delay the surgery for a while and can they fit you with a pessary in the meantime to get you by. I mean, if that is the only way you can get them off your back about surgery. They can't FORCE you to have surgery can they?