When I first “cracked the code” on stabilizing and reversing prolapse, and wrote and published Saving the Whole Woman, I set up this forum. While I had finally gotten my own severe uterine prolapse under control with the knowledge I had gained, I didn’t actually know if I could teach other women to do for themselves what I had done for my condition.
So I just started teaching women on this forum. Within weeks, the women started writing back, “It’s working! I can feel the difference!”
From that moment on, the forum became the hub of the Whole Woman Community. Unfortunately, spammers also discovered the forum, along with the thousands of women we had been helping. The level of spamming became so intolerable and time-consuming, we regretfully took the forum down.
Technology never sleeps, however, and we have better tools today for controlling spam than we did just a few years ago. So I am very excited and pleased to bring the forum back online.
If you are already a registered user you may now log in and post. If you have lost your password, just click the request new password tab and follow the directions.
Please review and agree to the disclaimer and the forum rules. Our moderators will remove any posts that are promotional or otherwise fail to meet our guidelines and will block repeat offenders.
Remember, the forum is here for two reasons. First, to get your questions answered by other women who have knowledge and experience to share. Second, it is the place to share your results and successes. Your stories will help other women learn that Whole Woman is what they need.
Whether you’re an old friend or a new acquaintance, welcome! The Whole Woman forum is a place where you can make a difference in your own life and the lives of thousands of women around the world!
Best wishes,
Christine Kent
Founder
Whole Woman
rural_juror
June 6, 2009 - 8:22pm
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RE: pt visit
How great to have found someone willing to look at the big picture for you. It must be a load off your mind to get some answers! :-) It seems like half of the stress of dealing with this is that there is no definitive treatment or answers, and it's hard to nail down exactly what works for who!
Did I see that you are in Georgia? I am too, so I'd be interested in finding out your PT's name. I found one in Woodstock (Women First Rehabilitation) that I might try using after I see the urogyno this week, but I have no idea really what to look for.
Take care!
RJ
Christine
June 6, 2009 - 8:26pm
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PT visit
Hi Alphamom,
So glad you’re getting help and support with your postural issues. Of course we can never know through the Internet, but I suspected from the beginning that yours was pelvic girdle pain arising from the SIJs. Actually, motion in the SI joints themselves is poorly controlled so that the activity and coordination of the large stabilizing muscles around the joints is crucial and always disturbed in people with pelvic instability. Asymmetric stiffness of the SIJ is a common finding in those with pelvic girdle pain.
I want to raise a cautionary note about your observations and comments regarding “raising” your bladder. You were most assuredly on your back when the ultrasound was conducted, right?
First of all, there is only one squeeze. The pelvic diaphragm moves medially to close the sphincters and as it does so shortens the distance between tailbone and pubic bones. Lying on your back, your bladder has fallen away from your abdominal wall and is resting on your front vaginal wall > which rests against your back vaginal wall > which rests against your rectum > which rests against your levator muscles. In shortening your levators while on your back you are in a sense “lifting” your bladder. But as far as prolapse goes, it is totally passive movement and in no way significant. It is simply the entire muscular/visceral structure moving your bladder slightly as it shortens in length.
When you stand up (the only time prolapse counts), your bladder/uterus should fall completely to the front and away from your pelvic diaphragm. No lifting properties exist within these muscles because they have never adapted to a lifting function. This is an old, outdated misconception that originated from the notion that the pelvis is a “bowl” with a “floor” that keeps everything “lifted” into place. The role of the pelvic floor muscles is largely passive.
If gynecology/PT really wanted to settle the issue of kegeling-for-prolapse, they would allow women to be tested by vaginal ultrasound in standing position (women do it all the time with the Kegelmaster) and then measure the “lift”.
Christine
alphamom
June 6, 2009 - 10:11pm
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thanks christine
Yes, it's so nice to have an experienced hand actually working through these issues with my body right in front of them; so much of the struggle is to recognize which anecdotes and experiences apply to me and which just don't, and to have better self-awareness (it's amazing how fast coping with pain has totally obliterated my body awareness and my sense of a right equilibrium, which was never that refined to start with).
My pt really de-emphasized the kegels and bladder issues, just took a quick look as part of an overall exam when I mentioned the poor vaginal tone I'd had for so long. My last ultrasound (only 5 weeks ago, the check for ovarian cysts) was so demoralizing, it was when I was really tied up in knots with muscle spasm and constipation and just unable to make anything work correctly anywhere in my abdomen. At that u/s I had just tried to empty my bladder but the u/s tech complained about what a huge distended bladder I had, and couldn't find the left ovary around it and all the colon everywhere that she also kindly pointed out (she ended up having to do an external u/s instead to find the left ovary). So after that experience I was just happy with yesterday's pt ultrasound showing that, hey, I actually had emptied my bladder as intended! And that the muscles I thought were so dead actually did have a prompt response, which I could actually see moving and lifting the bladder (important just because it's the most visible thing on the ultrasound, easy to see muscle motion around). It's not that I think those muscles are so relevant to getting everything supported down there or not, just that they actually can respond when I thought they were long dead. She spent more time looking at the pattern of response in my abdominal muscles, and the most time looking at my gait and watching/feeling my various muscles respond to the many small tasks she gave me. (Sorry, this is my first real exposure to what a pt might do and I'm so impressed with this level of information-gathering and feedback. . .)
For some reason I had thought that the sacroiliac joint problems were all ones of hypermobility, like at the end of pregnancy, and felt that couldn't be my problem as I didn't feel any wobbling or slippage at all in the joints, only a wobble that felt muscular. I wasn't aware of the locked or asymmetric possibilities for problems with those joints.
The history I filled out for her asked for the kinds of exercise I was doing now and I listed my stairstepping and a short prolapse fitness routine. She asked me about the prolapse routine, saying "I hope that's not a lot of kegels!" I showed her just a few of the things from your beginning routine(one back-stretch sequence always feels wonderful to me, the one beginning 'now using only the strength of your arms' an intro that makes me feel happy just to hear it, where belly on ground you curl shoulders and head upward in a nice arch, then shift back to being on hands and knees with forehead on ground, also a nice arching back stretch, then repeat; also some of the pelvic rocking with breathing). She was a lot more receptive to those ideas than kegels!
I'm just feeling happy that I can address what seems more likely a root cause of my problems, with thorough guidance and feedback, and not stab about attacking what seems like a peripheral or downstream consequence (the rectocele, which is only distressing to me when I'm seized up or constipated)
Thanks again, I've been on a steep learning curve and grateful for all the little tidbits everyone has shared from along their learning curves. I tend to catch different things in your postings each time I reread them, Christine, because often it takes me a while to really connect to these contexts that are so new to me.
alphamom
alphamom
June 6, 2009 - 10:22pm
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PT's name
I e-mailed rural_juror directly (using her profile) about my pt's name, as that seems the etiquette here. This is again in Atlanta, GA.
alphamom
Christine
June 6, 2009 - 10:39pm
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un-educating ourselves
I know it’s a huge learning curve, A-mom. Largely because we’ve all been very confused by modern science concerning the anatomy of the female body - even if we’ve never opened an anatomy book, terms like “pelvic floor”, “pelvic basin”, and “pelvic tilt” have given us a rough idea of inaccurate anatomy. I try to correct it every chance I get. Thanks for your understanding and willingness to hang in with us and learn.
rural_juror
June 7, 2009 - 12:26pm
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re:PT's Name
Alphamom,
Thanks so much for emailing me the pt's name. I'm adding it to my arsenal! :-)
Take care,
RJ
granolamom
June 7, 2009 - 3:38pm
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sounds promising...
alphamom
it sounds like this pt has a good handle on what's going on
asymmetries like what you describe really can set you up for pain!
please keep us posted on your progress. I will be following...
alemama
June 8, 2009 - 7:35am
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so excited for you
thank you so much for fascinating us with your health! I am so so happy for you to be working all sides of the equation. I suspected your pain was not just from prolapse. PTs really are amazing at working with your whole body.
I hope someone else reads this and is encouraged to look at the whole body for pain relief. I really believe that whole body strength and tone can improve prolapse symptoms.