Is PP POP more common than it used to be?

Submitted by Judith on September 6, 2009 - 4:33am
Body: 

I've been pondering this for a while. I had my babies 22 and 18 years ago and knew loads of other mums, we had very frank conversations about all sorts of things and I never met a single one with a prolapse. Mine didn't become symptomatic until 8 years after the last birth and I think that Pilates (and possibly over-done Buteyko breathing) had something to do with that. I know that there is no way that this site is numerically representative of the general female population ie only women with POP are on here, so its' not possible to extrapolate what percentage of women experience significant/noticeable PP POP and maybe the proportion is the same as it's ever been, just that there was no site like this before to make the numbers obvious.

I've been wondering about this on and off for a while and something my cranial osteopath told me about myself caused me to wonder again. He told me that my body was stuck in pregnancy posture, that the sacrum was jammed outwards and that my birthing position (on all fours, for ages) may not have been the best position FOR ME (capitals so that noone assumes that it's a general comment - I have a pre-existing back condition so I'm not necessarily typical). He also said that it was as if my body had had a shock during pregnancy - in fact I did have a couple of injuries, including falling and landing on my coccyx quite hard - so that may also have something to do with it. He must have been on the right track because his interventions have allowed me to get back into proper WW posture.

I am curious about the seemingly large number of PP women on here - or is it not really a large number? It would be interesting to have some research on the experiences of women who experience PP POP and those who don't eg diet (really looking forward to the results of Christine's work here), obstetric interventions, birthing position, whether more women are diligently kegeling during pregnancy on medical advice (in my day the advice was a bit half-hearted and so was my compliance)or possibly doing other inappropriate exercise, significance of pre-existing physical conditions. Obviously there are many variables to do with all sorts of things but it would be interesting if there were any common factors. What do other people think? And apologies if this has already come up Judith

louiseds

September 6, 2009 - 10:45am

Hi Judith

3228 members is not strictly true. Many of the usernames that are registered are spammers. They get deleted regularly from the list of new members, but the total keeps going up. Of course, some real members have long gone and are either getting on with their lives, or gone in another direction. I have no idea how many real members there are, or have been, but it is a lot, maybe one or two bona fide new members each day? That's about 500 a year.

Cheers

Louise

Oceanblue

September 7, 2009 - 10:07am

Hi Louise, Hi Judith,

I am very much a real live being with POP, am very much appreciative with all that Christine Ann Kent has given us, most importantly, an option to surgery, with good indications that it would make matters worse as time goes on. Perhaps there are exceptions, but I am not taking any chances. It is my body, my life.

I am going to continue on with the wonderful exercises that Christine has provided on her dvd, have made a slight change in diet, and a definite change with my lifestyle, and that is OK. It is more than just OK, it is a good.

Thank you Christine and all of the caring women on this forum.

Grateful hugs,

Oceanblue

Judith

September 7, 2009 - 12:12pm

It's not just idle curiosity on my part, I have a daughter who may decide to have babies and I have been seriously wondering whether there's something new around pregnancy and childbirth that's making POP more prevalent. We have a joke that the best advice I can give her about having babies and avoiding prolapse is - adopt (not serious, really only a joke). But I take Louise's point, the number on this board isn't huge and maybe it's just the way statistical likelihood works that I never met any PP women with POP and neither has Jackie.

But I still think, even if the numbers are no higher than they used to be, that there are more young women now than in my day kegeling like mad (possibly wrongly anyway) and doing inappropriate exercise such as zipping and hollowing in Pilates etc, that can't be beneficial. Women are certainly under much more pressure to regain their pre-pregnancy flat tums than in my day. Judith

louiseds

September 7, 2009 - 9:42pm

Hi Judith

I really think that the twin holy grails of the flat tummy and eternal youth are at the heart of the problem. There are billions of dollars spent every year all over the western world by women (and men) seeking this goal. Why?

Vanity, pure vanity.

If you want to make money, all you need to do is criticise a person, tell them there is something wrong about them (ie invent a non-existent fault), then sell them a solution to it. An example would be toilet cleaners that kill bacteria inside the pan. Who swims in their toilet????

Make it a really hard thing to fix and you have a customer for life.

Where in the holy books does it say that a woman who has reproduced should have the flat tummy of a girl who has never reproduced?

I can show you plenty of places where ample hips and breasts, and a soft round belly are regarded as positive womanly attributes, a sign that she has a bit of fat in store for lean times, and that she is the right shape to birth and nurture heirs. She is a walking, talking, dancing potential success story! Celebrate!!!

Sure, flat tummy is sexy too, if you are consciously or subconsciously eyeing off all the village virgins as potential wife and breeder, or just plain sightseeing (and what man doesn't?)!

Any wise man will ensure that he looks at his wife and the bearer of his/their children with adoring eyes. He will love her for who she is, and as she is, or he might once again find himself out in the cold, back in the marketplace where he is reduced to eyeing off virgins again.

Flat tummies? Poo-bah! They are about as pointless as strapless bras for grannies. And they deny the woman who has birthed a safe refuge for her pelvic organs.

I challenge all Members to come up with one good reason for having a flat tummy! Bring it on!

Cheers

Louise

EDIT: Balancing a breakfast tray on your tummy while you are lying in bed doesn't count.

MeMyselfAndI

September 8, 2009 - 1:53am

Do flat tummies have anything to do with POP?

I think there are women out there who have POP and have huge bellies and ones who have small bellies......

So what makes a difference?

If you had a lot of excess skin on your tummy, cos you lost weight - Would having that removed (ouch) make a difference - ?

Does the flab in the stomach area make POP worse?

Or....

If you are in posture does the amount of flabberama on your stomach matter?

I don't think it makes much difference if you are in posture right, the only reason for a totally flat stomach - If you are lucky enough to have one - Is luck...... LOL

I would love to know though if/how a fat/flat stomach might affect POP...

♥

Judith

September 8, 2009 - 2:52am

Hi MeMyselfandI

I don't think it's the flat tum per se that's a problem, if you happen to have one naturally. It's the exercises that women do to have or regain one that may increase intra-abdominal pressure that can exacerbate POP and the unnatural posture they may adopt in order to accentuate the look of a flat tummy. I recently heard a midwife on the radio saying that the PP tummy very rarely goes back to being completely flat even it was beforehand and I was reading about it too. Some women have a flat tight stomach in their genes, some super fit sporty women will revert to almost total flatness, but a lot of celebs who appear to regain total flatness have some kind of surgery or get airbrushed in photos.

Also, a non-flat tummy isn't necessarily the same as a flabby one (heaven forbid!). It may be just rounded.

I agree, it's the posture that counts, and also the not doing exercises that increase pressure or distort the balance of muscle strength in the area.

I do agree with Louise's sentiments - women are sold a false holy grail about this, as we are about so many things. It's all just about the perpetual quest to create markets for things we never knew we needed. Judith

louiseds

September 8, 2009 - 9:20am

Australian TV is going digital slowly, and I had a discussion with my BIL the other day about it. The discussion became quite heated. I was saying that we have only had our new TV for about 10 years, so I thought we would just get a set top box for $70, so we could keep the TV locked in a cupboard still, instead of having a screen bigger than Ben Hur dominating our living area. We don't watch TV a lot, so there is little point in spending megabucks on a new one. He was just about having a heart attack that I was trying to tell him that getting a new TV was a low priority. He wasn't kidding. He just could not see the point in holding on to old technology. I played along for a while, thinking he was joking, but he wasn't!!! I ended up shrugging and going to do something else. Am I weird? Don't answer that!

Louise

clavicula

September 8, 2009 - 12:49pm

OFF: We don't have TV. How weird is that?! lol
Liv

Judith

September 8, 2009 - 1:08pm

Well, maybe you are both weird, but just because you're weird doesn't mean you're wrong.

We have a similar debate going on in our house, daughter away, husband and son both want a bigger flat screen TV, which means I'm outnumbered. I like a TV that knows it's place, small and cowering away in a corner. I'm doomed to lose of course when we get a high definition one that'll turn our sitting room into a mini cinema. Judith

alemama

September 8, 2009 - 1:43pm

ha. well. we went digital in florida a few months ago and our house said goodbye to abc and pbs. We have always had one small tv-tucked in a cabinet and we never watched much anyway (sesame street for the kids mostly) and we don't miss it one single bit.
but we have a dirty little secret...I found a few sites online where I can watch ANYTHING. Movies, HBO, tv- anything.
So when things get hairy, as they sometimes do, I am just a click away from liberty kids!

our plan for "someday" when affording a new tv is a reality is to get a projector and a pull down screen because I HATE having the TV as the focal point of a room. But I do like to watch movies sometimes....

louiseds

September 8, 2009 - 8:57pm

Whoops, looks like I have opened a can of worms. I am so tempted to continue the conversation. TV is such an influential part of our lives, whether we watch it or not. How about continuing it in the Emotional Issues Form, so we can leave this topic discussing its initial subject, which I think is pretty important?

L