hysterectomy and the Whole Woman

It is so good that when a problem with surgical treatement of organs falling thru vaginal opening is recognized as non successful that an alternative is offered which is non-invasive. It is hideous that ignorant doctors think (must be instructed this way) that they can somehow cut and remove and add and tack and relsolve the problem.

So much of it sounds like a dressmaker's approach. I read this article yesterday and was gob-smacked, gob-smacked a couple of times yesterday actually. Still taking it all in. I have read it a second time today. If I have it right, Christine is saying Wholewoman posture can help women after hysterectomy. Wow.

Christine, I want to thank you for providing an alternative to the current theories and interventions for POP. I am 55 and never new until I did the first wheel what my "core" was. Therefore I did not know what needed to be strong!! Its so unbelievable that I could live an athletic and what I thought was healthy life. Anyway, I know now and I am sharing with my daughter who is 30. This week I went to a discussion at a local hospital on vaginal atrophy and POP. You are right kegals were the mainstay of tx. I wouldnt be bamboozelled anymore. Again,,, a heart felt thank-you!!

Hi ladies,

I have been reading through the posts here for a few days to learn as much as I can. My story is similar to many and I'm post hysterectomy for 10 years now. Regret it but have to move on and try to keep the body in shape.

I've been very sick with topical steroid poisoning for 2 1/2 years after using it for eczema for most of my life. I am 58 years old and think the steroid played a part in the hormone issues and lumps I had but nothing that warranted a complete hysterectomy. The docs are so cut crazy these days.

Anyway, I was in bed a lot of the time withdrawing from the steroids and it was total hell on wheels with burned skin, rashes then insane itching and nerve pain.

Now I am doing better from that..finally..but my back is aching bad and I've had urinary frequency more than usual. I was diagnosed with IC, slight prolapsed bladder, osteoporosis and some IBS as well some years after the hysterectomy. I also had a ruptured disc many years ago that slowly healed but I suspect the back pain I am having could be that it ruptured again after being so sick and not exercising.

I've done well to maintain all of it with daily stretching and walking and low grain diet, no soy, good amounts of omega 3 and farm fresh foods.

Anyway, my question is, what type of pain do you have with a rectocele? I have a lower vaginal one but don't think the pain I have is coming from that area..I had a thrombosis hemorrhoid about 4 weeks ago and chose to let the body try and reabsorb it..not happened yet but hoping.

I have an appointment with a lady urologist next week to get fitted for a pessary and will try that to keep my bladder supported and am doing the exercises and stretching as well as posture when I sit. The pain I have is sharp, shooting pains when I sit too long and stand too long. It feels very much like the ruptured disc in L5S1 area.

Thanks for any help..Oh.. I am 58 years old. Glad to see some here my age are coping fine with all these things falling south! ;)

Hi Justdandy and welcome to the forum. First I’ll give you a link directly to the blog post that Christine was referencing above for post-hyst readers:

http://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=1420

You have a number of issues there. Others may have some ideas and you might want to consider a consult with Christine or another teacher. I am in my 60’s with typical prolapses, of which rectocele is the worst, and no surgical history. Even prior to incorporating the posture correction into my life, I would never have said that my rectocele caused pain, only extreme discomfort. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you that a pessary will give you some relief. Do try to make sure that you are able to remove and clean it regularly yourself. Some docs expect you to leave it in for months until you see them again! - Surviving

Thanks Surviving. I will make sure to mention that to the doc when I see her. I am going to get an MRI on my back down the road here so I will find out what is causing the pain. I opted out of surgery for that after the hysterectomy and will try to manage and let my body heal on it's own as much as possible. Thanks for the link, too. :)

I cannot find the link posted above but did watch one of the You Tube videos on stretches and posture. Am I supposed to pull my shoulders down while pulling my chest up or just pull my chest up when sitting? I was pulling my belly button in but not sure that is right. I do stretches for my disc issues in my back and want to learn these for overall help. I cannot afford the books or videos as I'm on a small monthly check. Thanks. :)

Justdandy, you definitely don't want to pull in your belly button. Try relaxing the belly, then pulling the chest up strongly to make a nice smooth line. Keep your shoulders down, but don't pull them back. - Surviving

Thanks, that helps!

Thanks for all of the information for those of us who have had a hysterectomy. All we hear from doctors is more surgery.

I found out 1 1/2 yrs ago I had a rectocele. I had a hysterectomy 6 yrs. ago due to prolapse, but didn't do a good job on homework to find out what else could fall out. I don't want to go through another operation and started looking online for alternatives. In the meantime, I went back to my acupuncturist to help me out if she could. I haven't found it to be very effective for this issue, so went back to see other alternatives. An operation was always #1 'fix'. Pessary was also an idea & would go that route if necessary. I've been using the V-supporter for a couple weeks and at least it keeps the bulge from falling out any further or stretching the ligaments any further.
I also found the Whole Woman on many searches so am investigating that route. I have ordered a couple DVD's to start with and should receive them in a couple days. Again, I have hope that something will halt the bulge from going any further, at least at this point it is livable if not comfortable, and no pain.

Hi chihuahuamom and welcome! You are wise to avoid another surgical procedure, and it's good that the V supporter offers some help. It might be worth it to look into a pessary, though they are quite tricky to fit and don't work for all. Normally they would not be recommended at all, in the case of a rectocele. But since you have had hyst, there are different dynamics at work, so I can't really say. My gut feeling is that while it might be worth trying, it is probably a long shot.

Whole Woman posture as a way to stabilize prolapse works best in the presence of the uterus. Christine makes no secret that we try to reach women before they have started down this path because once the uterus is gone, the pelvic and skeletal dynamics are so hugely altered. That being said, your best bet from here on is definitely to work on keeping the remaining organs forward, and to restore lumbar curvature to the extent that you can. Some women post-hyst have better luck with this than others. Work slowly and gently over time. Most of us did feel different and maybe a bit sore at the beginning.

Christine has a new book about to come out, the subject is hips and it will show how crucial this posture is for the health of spine and hips as we age. Support of pelvic organs is only one piece of this whole issue. It will be harder for you to adopt if you have been a lifelong sucker and tucker, pulling in your belly and holding lots of tension there. Most of us had to overcome this, and it didn't happen overnight. Best of luck to you. - Surviving

I appreciate your comments. It is astounding how many women are plagued with this problem, and the Dr. that did my hysterectomy was a woman - go figure, she never came out and talked about the pros & cons, and I didn't know about Whole Woman, I just thought if the uterus is falling out, I didn't need it anymore, so take it all out. But I am optimistic and believe that this will at least instruct me on how to do things differently, I still want to try everything out there besides surgery. I too don't know whether a pessary would work, when I had the uterine prolapse, I used one and caused me to start bleeding again, so I got rid of it, but now there is no vagina to be irritated, but I don't want my rectocele irritated either, so, I just will strap on my V-support and when my DVD's arrive, I will start implementing a new regimen.

Chihuahuamom, this was the first I had heard of V-support. Wondering what it is and where can it be bought? Thanks.

Google v2 support and the name of your country and a website should come up. There is also a product called Fembrace I am looking into. It looks a little more supportive to me.

Thank you so much for sending the (click here) link to doing the WW kegels.
Greatly appreciated!! Rose

Could you please tell me what a thrombosis hemorrhoid is??
Thank you!

I looked up this type of hemorrhoid and I do believe this could be what I have. I am against surgery as it sounds from people that have had it done that it is not helpful.
Does anyone have some effective home cures??
Rose

I have had that kind of hemmroid. For me, they usually last a couple of weeks. I will get them usually after I have had too many hard stools in a row. Warm soothing baths and tucks with witch hazel always worked for me. Don't laugh or cringe, but I have even used an ice cube initially to take down some of the more painful swelling.
Will be interesting to hear what others have done for this.

Have been consistent with my First Aid For Prolapse for 6 months and have found that altho I will probably never have total relief from the feeling of something falling out now & then, most days I don't even notice it and if I do I just go back to the V-support for a few days. I'm so happy I found this program. I believe that it has kept my 'problem' from getting worse.

Hi C-mom and thanks for checking in. These are great results by any standards! Very few among us will ever reverse our symptoms totally; this is maintenance and not a cure. In your case, being several years post-hyst and only being 6 months into this work, i am thrilled for you! It's obvious you have been diligent and it is paying off. Your post is a great testimonial and should inspire others who have had hysterectomy to realize the value of the WW work for all women. Those of us with 'celes who still have our uterus ought to be saying to ourselves right about now......wow, look what SHE accomplished in 6 months!

The biggest gift of the WW work is that we gain control, and can stop living in fear of worsening. Stay in posture and there's nowhere to go but up! - Surviving

Hello Christine,

I couldn't agree more with your comment "wearing...supportive shoes". There is so much conflicting information out there about whether to go au naturel, or to always wear substantial shoes. I am a perfect example of why the barefoot camp does not guarantee strong feet and ankles. I almost always went barefoot in the house when I was growing up, and I walked barefoot outside a substantial amount time in my life.

As an adult, my exercise of choice was walking, and I did so for too many years to count, almost 4 miles everyday.

I had to hit rock bottom before I finally got the correct information. I would summarize, as we hit middle-age, and from what I have read on this forum, also around the age of menopause that there are connective tissue changes that happen in the body. No amount of exercise in my bare feet was going to build up my tendons, even though the chiropractor and the physical therapist told me to do so, without taking into consideration my age and that I am post-menopausal. I would recommend that people not ignore pain in their feet, and they should try to get to the bottom of why they have difficulty walking.

~BOTW

Hi Christine,

I'm afraid my jumping and running days are over. My biggest goal right now is to walk downstairs without difficulty. I can, but it is obvious that there is a lot of trepidation on my part. I'm just elated that the pain that I endured for more than 15 years is a part of my past.

As an aside, I wanted to say that I just love the format of the forum. I like that I don't have to log on every time that I want to catch up. It makes it much easier to learn in bits and pieces. I try to stay in posture as much as possible and my bladder is less visibly noticeable.

~BOTW

I'm neither a runner nor a jumper myself. But Christine is more intrepid than I, and certainly a lot more fit!! - Surviving (PS, I try to make up for this in other ways.....)

Forgive me if I have come to the wrong conclusion, but it is hard to absorb ten years of posting in a little over two months, but I think of my bladder as being a muscle (instead of just a bag) that has gotten stronger with the WW posture; as I have gotten stronger by changing the way I walk and stand. It is still so perplexing to me that when I went to my well-educated urologist 8 months ago that she didn't conclude, taking into consideration my history of giving birth to three children, and being post-menopausal, that the reason that I was urinating every half hour was due to a prolapsed bladder.

I know nothing about the anatomy and physiology of the bladder, so excuse my ignorance if I gave it more muscular structure than it actually possesses.

I want to make sure I understand about jumping. I have read that it is not good to do this with a prolapse. I use to rebound on a small trampoline prior to my prolapse. It was one of the many ways I kept my weight under control and I really enjoyed jumping to music. Not high jumping, but more like dancing on the trampoline. It also helped me with my balance. I would love to drag it up out of the basement and ad it to my whole woman yoga. Can you clarify what you mean by 'jumping"? Thanks a bunch!

I think this is one of those times when the majority of us need to be cautious and remember that we are not Christine. I know that I personally, having started this work at age 60 which was less than 4 years ago, will never be able to restore the same amount of lost lumbar curvature as someone who started this work younger and/or has done it longer. Maybe after 5 or 10 straight minutes of firebreathing, I MIGHT be able to get my organs far enough forward that jumping would make things better and not worse. I would have to try it and see. But suffice it to say that your WW posture has to be awesome to do what she does! - Surviving

you jumped from a fire breathing position? Not a squat per se- more knees bent, back not flat but parallel to the ground, curved lumbar, and you did small jumps from this position???? If I'm thinking about this correctly, with your belly relaxed and pointing obviously forward (toward the ground) -and so gravity would be helping pull organs that direction as well- would that be helpful for those of us who aren't quite as WW posture established? It would be great quad/glute exercise I would think and I love the idea of doing something like this. The walking has been great but I think jumping would be so fun to incorporate as well....gr8fl

I'm 7 months post hyst and afraid to do anything yet. I have practicing the posture and I'm finally starting to "get it" after 3 years since buying the book and the FAFP DVD. I think it is starting to work for me. However I went to the gyno today, and after the exam she told me that I have 2 things going. Stage 3 bladder prolapse and the top of the vagina is beginning to drop. (This what I dreaded the most) I had told them earlier before the exam that posture helps me, and I think I well be able to manage it myself. She told me that I could do 3 things: 1. do nothing, 2. get a pessary, or 3. Have surgery. She said that they would go in vaginally and attach it to some stronger muscles which has a 75% success rate, or go in abdominally and attach it to the lower spine area (I think that's what she said) which has and 85% success rate. Well I'm not having any more surgery, and I'm adamant about that. I'm not sure about the pessary because the book says it can cause a rectocele. I'm thinking about getting started on the FAFP DVD and then later get started on the 1st wheel yoga DVD which I also have. I'm not sure if whole woman work can help vaginal vault prolapse if it happens. I guess I'll do the best I can and hope it works. I was put over a barrel and forced to have a hyst because of the ever lovin' CA-125 blood test which is their gold standard for detecting ovarian cancer. It came back positive. So it was a case of not knowing until they went in, and when they go in they rip everything out and test it. Everything was benign so the hyst was unnecessary. I had a 515 gram fibroma on my ovary, and it would have been nice if they could have just taken that out, but oh no, that's not the way they operate. I am thankful that I didn't have cancer however. My question is: can vaginal vault prolapse be helped possibly with whole woman work? Thank you for listening, Coping

I just noticed that Christine's link (on the very first line of this thread) to the hysterectomy article, simply takes the reader to the home page of the blog, which features the most recent blog post. At the time, the hyst article WAS the new blog post, but now the link brings up the latest article which is about hips. So here is a direct link to the hysterectomy article:
http://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=1420

Coping, I can only repeat what Christine says above.....let your mantra be "keep the vaginal vault forward". No one can say what might happen over time, and it may depend greatly upon whether or not you have retained enough length for the vaginal vault to be able to flatten sufficiently when you are in posture. Stay with it 100%. Visualizing the organs held forward helps one remember not to fall out of posture. Remember the details too, such as support of lumbar curvature while driving. And a positive attitude sends all the right messages throughout your body! No regrets, Coping, you did what you had to do, and since that time you have chosen the best possible path to continued wellness. You always have the surgery to fall back on if things don't hold....but I'm betting on you! - Surviving

Interesting conversation. I have been realizing for quite some time now, that whenever I go to pick up all the stuff I cart around with me (every day), if I jiggle my 'celes into a better place and then take the time to distribute my load close to my body, then once I am upright and walking in WW posture, everything feels just fine. i totally get this whole idea of how weight-loading from above keeps that vaginal space flattened and closed. I think that jumping in posture is just a more extreme version of the same thing - if the organs are far enough forward, then the effect of jumping is a good one. I think it would be a way to gauge one's progress in restoring lumbar curvature. I've been trying it slowly, literally jumping without my feet ever actually leaving the ground. - Surviving

I do see it as Christine describes it, and from the lovely picture she showed us. I did also try a little up and down with the feet. Lol! But, I fear this motion right now. I hope at some point when I can get my uterus to stay into my lower belly more often, that I could experience this first hand. I will certainly keep this in mind though. Another goal to be conquered in the work of maintaining prolapse.

than it did in front of the mirror!! ;) Christine, you were absolutely right- I wasn't able to maintain my back in such a way that it remained parallel to the ground. And though I was able to keep my body in an acute angle, I think a large part of the problem is that I didn't take into account my feet. From that lowered position, the 'jump' occurs with more of a flat foot- I couldn't figure out a way to push off by going completely through the full range of the arched foot (if that makes sense.) I think it lacks that lumbar curve-arched foot spring that you referred to. It didn't feel great- one was more than enough to convince me to scratch that idea. ;) I did a bunch of the plie/toe raises combination this morning and it felt so much better. In fact, I found that after a number of repetitions and at certain tempo, it almost cried out for a little jump! :) Thank you

What a fun & important thread... & the wonderful discoveries we make!!
Last night I tried jumping on the floor, & it is interesting. As it was dark when the discussion here started, I waited until just then to get on my big trampoline in our garden. Some years ago after reading that rebounding was good for the lymph glands etc, I had a go on our trampoline, with the alarming result of my innards flopping down violently. Discontinued until today.
I am not comfortable with the height of the trampolene so I stood in WWP & without my feet leaving the surface did some bouncing. My bosom was more comfortable & my lumbar curve was pulled forward more, quite a pull on it, & I could feel the intrabdominal pressure in my belly - & no innards flopping down!! YAY!!
I came back inside & did some jumping & must say that I like the trampoline better, though not sure about actually jumping on it - the bouncing was more controlled & felt really good, & being outside is nice...Floor jumping is almost just as good - just need to wear more supportive bra - I like gentle bras if at all lol...
I will try barefoot jumping on the grass next as it is supposed to have a grounding effect health wise - the earth gives us free electrons with health benefits...through leather soles also - a win all around...
Have fun,
Best wishes,
Aussie Soul Sister

That is brilliant Aussie Ss, I've not had much bother with my cystocele now, forget all about it most days unless I overdo walking around supermarket. But I'm afraid to try this jumping as it might bring it back , can't believe I was so devastated when I found this site about 6 or 7 weeks ago, now I have my pop in perspective when I think of other people who can't see or walk and much worse I feel lucky only to have pop. I think the best time for walking barefoot on grass is in the morning when the dew is on it. Brilliant for grounding and removing EMR and toxins from our body. Good luck with the jumping. WHM.

Dear WHM,
Thankyou for your good wishes & the wonderful hint to do the barefoot experience on grass with dew - have been reading little snippets on this lately, especially the connection with nature for relaxation.
I felt like you when I had worsening pop symptoms & hip pain...so grateful to be here.
I have been doing WW for nearly 2 years so take your time.
I lived in the posture, with some slouching at times, until recently when it was time to do more by including the exercise DVDs, much more regularly.
Rehabilitating my hip has become a priority & I am gaining greater whole body benefits as well.
My abdominal wall when in WWP is strengthening, & soon I will be able to demonstrate to others who think we have no core strength because we relax our belly & lift our chest, that we have natural core strength - no sucking, tucking or bracing needed!!
In our journey together,
Best wishes,
Aussie Soul Sister

Dear all,
thank you for your input Christine!
I am glad that I am a woose or a feardie - Aussie or Scottish for someone who is scared... & I can happily "bounce " on my high trampoline without my feet leaving the surface!! YAY... jokes aside I believe it will be a great way to increase my lumbar curve...along with the DVDs...
Dear willhealmyself, I walked around my garden this morning on the dewed grass in my traditional long nightie & it was like floating, quite ethereal - forgot to try jumping on the grass - though bosom bounce would have been an issue...lol
I have tried running on grass & it is nice if you don't mind the odd twig underfoot...
In our journey together,
Best Wishes,
Aussie Soul Sister